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 oldzoggy wrote:
Money -> No way. 120 euro for a single "new heavy support" model, you should never pay 40 euro per sprue.
nts -> Yes it is the big next thing. It is sturdy, relative cheap and dead killy what more do you want ?

How many sprues it has is irrelevant. Think about points per $. The stormsurge may cost $150, but it also is about 435 properly kitted out. that is 2.9 points/$, which is extremely high. Compare that to a broadside which is $50 and 70 points properly kitted out. That is only 1.4 points/$, half of what the stormsurge is

To everyone that says to run 2, for less points you can run 1 Ta'unar that has WS3 BS4 S8 T9 W10 I2 A2 Ld9 Sv2+

It's tougher, more reliable shooting, can overwatch, partial immunity to D weapons, immune to small arms fire, and has a more powerful array of weapons.

Weapons

Pulse ordnance multi-driver
- Concentrated bombardment 72" D 2 Ordnance 1, Massive Blast (7")
- Pattern bombardment 12"-120" 8 3 Apocalyptic Barrage (3), Pinning, No Cover Saves

+ each arm can have
Fusion eradicator 24" 8 1 Heavy 5, Melta
or
Tri-axis ion cannon
- Standard 60" 7 3 Heavy 6
- Coherent beam 60" 9 2 Heavy 3

I've thought about owning 2 because you maybe want to run the heavy retribution cadre - which costs about 1000pts. I think that's GW tricking us into getting 2.

The moment you want to run 2, your better off running 1 KX139 Ta’unar and spend the 400pts on something else.

Naaris wrote:
The question becomes this-

To everyone that says to run 2, for less points you can run 1 Ta'unar that has WS3 BS4 S8 T9 W10 I2 A2 Ld9 Sv2+

It's tougher, more reliable shooting, can overwatch, partial immunity to D weapons, immune to small arms fire, and has a more powerful array of weapons.

Weapons

Pulse ordnance multi-driver
- Concentrated bombardment 72" D 2 Ordnance 1, Massive Blast (7")
- Pattern bombardment 12"-120" 8 3 Apocalyptic Barrage (3), Pinning, No Cover Saves

+ each arm can have
Fusion eradicator 24" 8 1 Heavy 5, Melta
or
Tri-axis ion cannon
- Standard 60" 7 3 Heavy 6
- Coherent beam 60" 9 2 Heavy 3

I've thought about owning 2 because you maybe want to run the heavy retribution cadre - which costs about 1000pts. I think that's GW tricking us into getting 2.

The moment you want to run 2, your better off running 1 KX139 Ta’unar and spend the 400pts on something else.

Taunar is banned by ITC. So cannot be used in almost all tournaments. It is also $400 after shipping costs, while you can get 2 SS for $225 after discounts.

notredameguy10 wrote:


Taunar is banned by ITC. So cannot be used in almost all tournaments.

Mostly this... not usable in ETC or ITC formats.

notredameguy10 wrote:

Taunar is banned by ITC. So cannot be used in almost all tournaments. It is also $400 after shipping costs, while you can get 2 SS for $225 after discounts.

Professional Re-casters would definitely beat the price...

Naaris wrote:

Professional Re-casters would definitely beat the price...

Yes, but still at triple the price of a Stormsurge from them.

The Ta'unar is utterly ridiculous. You might get one, maybe two games with it and then you'll have to save it for special occasions.

Eh, it's no worse than any other titian, IMO. Although, that still means I won't play against it (I don't play against titans, accept in apoc).

I'll be using one. It's going to fire all its weapons. GW has actually ruledon this and there is a long thread about it with the e-mail from their rules team.

That aside, two of them is kinda maybe more than I can stomach. I'll play with two Riptides, or one StormSurge. Already bought it so at this point, done.

As long as Wraith Knights continue to be a thing and they will be for a long time, I feel no guilt whatsoever countering them. You must counter them.

So I think you really need two Riptides or one StormSurge to fill that need.

If someone wants to "not play against them" in tournaments, that's their prerogative. Though my personal opinion: Just bring fast melee and swamp it. Easiest way to shut it up and that can be done by turn two in a lot of armies.

If your worried about not getting games with the stormsurge your definitely not going to with the supremacy suit.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
If your worried about not getting games with the stormsurge your definitely not going to with the supremacy suit.

I don't like Forge World in general, so I won't buy one of those.

It just simple fact my brother plays tau that people dislike hi s he never play top of line list. But he looking to build a army around 1 stormsurge and 2 riptides to be a lilltle more comptive. Be we both know he won't ever be able to use it because people Will say he can't our they will make up house rules et that will hurt him

newguy1984 wrote:
It just simple fact my brother plays tau that people dislike hi s he never play top of line list. But he looking to build a army around 1 stormsurge and 2 riptides to be a lilltle more comptive. Be we both know he won't ever be able to use it because people Will say he can't our they will make up house rules et that will hurt him

All I can say is: Eldar players better not be telling him jack about taking one. Lol.

This is everything thats wrong with the ITC. A few people have colds and forget to vote and suddenly because 50.000001% of the players (most of whom dont play Tau) vote to nerf them, the other 50% (including those who dont play Tau) are now getting their rules REWRITTEN for them.

I love the people and the idea behind ITC but the execution suuuuucks.

It's definitely worth it because it's firepower is among the highest in the game. Just don't go running around the board like a Wraightknight. You'll need to protect it and feed it the necessary markerlights.

No. It is not worth it, maybe in a group of three but only maybe as then that becomes your army.

-It cannot overwatch.
-it has zero mobility
-it has zero access to twin link now that ITC "voted" out buff commander gimmicks"
-the majority of it's firepower is str5 ap5
-is stupidly vulnerable to tank shock.
other things in the tau army do it cheaper and more efficiently.
-it's T6 with a 3+ save and a 5+FNP. sure you can buy the invuln but it's pretty pricey as far as upgrades go.

basically take any money you had to spend on a storm surge and buy ghostkeels and riptides/broadsides. they are overall a better investment in your army then a giant paper weight GMC. It's only saving grace is the amount of fire power it can put out in a turn(GMC's can fire all their weapons in the shooting phase), i shot 8D6 shots in a squad of 5 wolf guard and killed one of them.
they get D missiles with marker lights which is cool but they're one use only.
the str 10 gun is nice but it's 2 non twin linked shots at bs3. sure you can buff it with combined fire but why? anything you combine the fire power with with probably kill the target first.

My main issue with it is it grossly violates previous Tau Fluff. For years they have been consistently rejecting large titan like vehicles and instead prefering to use large aircraft to kill big stompy walkers. I would have preferred that GW gave them a flyer instead.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
My main issue with it is it grossly violates previous Tau Fluff. For years they have been consistently rejecting large titan like vehicles and instead prefering to use large aircraft to kill big stompy walkers. I would have preferred that GW gave them a flyer instead.

\
where does it even say that in the codex/supplements?

It was said repeatedly up until the 6th edition codex, where they did a complete 360 to go "Big stompy robots? That's what we do!".

People complain all the time that there is no innovation ... then complain when there is innovation.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
People complain all the time that there is no innovation ... then complain when there is innovation.

SJ

Really? I don't think anybody was calling for a blatant disregard of all previous fluff.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
People complain all the time that there is no innovation ... then complain when there is innovation.

SJ

Really? I don't think anybody was calling for a blatant disregard of all previous fluff.

I guess if you want to make up fluff go for it but for a army with that much jump infantry is considered a "air super power" then thats that.

Tau is the newest galactic contender it makes obvious sense as to why they would develop new battle suits. Especially since battle suits are their trademark.

die toten hosen wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
People complain all the time that there is no innovation ... then complain when there is innovation.

SJ

Really? I don't think anybody was calling for a blatant disregard of all previous fluff.

I guess if you want to make up fluff go for it but for a army with that much jump infantry is considered a "air super power" then thats that.

What?

Tau is the newest galactic contender it makes obvious sense as to why they would develop new battle suits. Especially since battle suits are their trademark.

Battlsuits are their trademarks, not titans. Mini-mechs. Titans are a waste of recorcess. It was far easier to have dedicated air units, like the AX-1-0. At least until the 6th edition codex, when all that was thrown out the window so GW could sell shiny new models.

My main problem us that they are mc despite being machines piloted .

But hey, I guess GW do know what they write.

 BoomWolf wrote:

Trasvi wrote:
Having faced two at a tournament this week... its a beast. I was playing against the 'short range' D-shotgun version, WITH the 'nerfed' ruling that GMC's can only fire 2 weapons, and it was still downright rude.
It's fast, durable, very capable in combat against non-D-weapon superheavies. With its D-missiles it can fairly reliably take down enemy superheavies at range. With cheap 4+ invulnerable and 5+ FNP it's resistant to most damage...

yeah. It's very good.

I have to question the competitiveness of your local.
Even with the shield generator, it's still T6 3+/4++,it dies to spam shots.
And with mere 2 guns, he does not posses a firepower grade that isn't normal.

He's good. But nothing special compared to knights, and when it has shooting nerf he isn't even that.

Heh. Our local meta is quite heavily comped generally - (www.communitycomp.org)

Perhaps it's just the army I was playing with that made it particularly hard: with Daemons, I can essentially only ever take things out in combat, but getting within charge range of the thing means eating a ton of BS5 ignores cover D weapons and then stomps in combat. I generally don't care too much about Knights as I can use 'explodes' results to put some extra hull points in, and with the right gifts my screamers/princes can take it down quickly; but with the Stormsurge its number of wounds+invulnerable+FNP its the main stopping point as it will last 2+ rounds in combat against anything except the luckiest of Nurgle daemon princes. Models like Be'lakor or Lord of Change who can potentially one-round a Knight get stomped by a Stormsurge pretty quickly.

I guess something like mass scatterbike spam can shoot it down 'easily', but other 'typical' shooting spam units don't seem to have the volume of fire to take it down. See all the people attacking it with 30+grav shots and barely denting it.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

die toten hosen wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
People complain all the time that there is no innovation ... then complain when there is innovation.

SJ

Really? I don't think anybody was calling for a blatant disregard of all previous fluff.

I guess if you want to make up fluff go for it but for a army with that much jump infantry is considered a "air super power" then thats that.

What?

Tau is the newest galactic contender it makes obvious sense as to why they would develop new battle suits. Especially since battle suits are their trademark.

Battlsuits are their trademarks, not titans. Mini-mechs. Titans are a waste of recorcess. It was far easier to have dedicated air units, like the AX-1-0. At least until the 6th edition codex, when all that was thrown out the window so GW could sell shiny new models.

you sound bitter about GW based on your last statement.

It stands to reason as the Tau discovered new races and enemies that they would create new weapons and combat systems. are titans a waste of resources? probably but it never hurts to have a few on hand for those special moments. i highly doubt the dang things are mass produced in any large quantity.

It bothers me though because my favorite thing about Tau is they act rationally and sorta ignore a lot of the sillyness and nonsense in the universe. It was a nice tongue and check that back in 4th edition was well done. Now they have a big stompy suit like everyone else. It feels like some of their uniqueness was stripped away to sell a model, when they could have released another flier that would have probably sold well if the rules were decent

die toten hosen wrote:
No. It is not worth it, maybe in a group of three but only maybe as then that becomes your army.

-It cannot overwatch.
-it has zero mobility
-it has zero access to twin link now that ITC "voted" out buff commander gimmicks"
-the majority of it's firepower is str5 ap5
-is stupidly vulnerable to tank shock.
other things in the tau army do it cheaper and more efficiently.
-it's T6 with a 3+ save and a 5+FNP. sure you can buy the invuln but it's pretty pricey as far as upgrades go.

basically take any money you had to spend on a storm surge and buy ghostkeels and riptides/broadsides. they are overall a better investment in your army then a giant paper weight GMC. It's only saving grace is the amount of fire power it can put out in a turn(GMC's can fire all their weapons in the shooting phase), i shot 8D6 shots in a squad of 5 wolf guard and killed one of them.
they get D missiles with marker lights which is cool but they're one use only.
the str 10 gun is nice but it's 2 non twin linked shots at bs3. sure you can buff it with combined fire but why? anything you combine the fire power with with probably kill the target first.

yeah I'm sorry, but you really do not know what you are talking about.

ITC just voted on tank shock and SS basically ignores it completely.
It has 8 wounds
zero mobility LMAO. it can move 12 inches per turn.
You didn't even mention 4 destroyer missiles that can all be fired in one turn.

I could keep going on...

notredameguy10 wrote:

die toten hosen wrote:
No. It is not worth it, maybe in a group of three but only maybe as then that becomes your army.

-It cannot overwatch.
-it has zero mobility
-it has zero access to twin link now that ITC "voted" out buff commander gimmicks"
-the majority of it's firepower is str5 ap5
-is stupidly vulnerable to tank shock.
other things in the tau army do it cheaper and more efficiently.
-it's T6 with a 3+ save and a 5+FNP. sure you can buy the invuln but it's pretty pricey as far as upgrades go.

basically take any money you had to spend on a storm surge and buy ghostkeels and riptides/broadsides. they are overall a better investment in your army then a giant paper weight GMC. It's only saving grace is the amount of fire power it can put out in a turn(GMC's can fire all their weapons in the shooting phase), i shot 8D6 shots in a squad of 5 wolf guard and killed one of them.
they get D missiles with marker lights which is cool but they're one use only.
the str 10 gun is nice but it's 2 non twin linked shots at bs3. sure you can buff it with combined fire but why? anything you combine the fire power with with probably kill the target first.

yeah I'm sorry, but you really do not know what you are talking about.

ITC just voted on tank shock and SS basically ignores it completely.
It has 8 wounds
zero mobility LMAO. it can move 12 inches per turn.
You didn't even mention 4 destroyer missiles that can all be fired in one turn.

I could keep going on...

if you have it anchored(which why wouldn't you) it can either death or glory the tank it's being shocked by, or take D3 wounds since it cant sidestep.

eight wounds T6 3+ armor save, dies to plasma/ melta drop pods and grav.

yeah 4 bs3 D missiles depending on marker lights.

as gargs go it is amazingly underwhelming.

die toten hosen wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

die toten hosen wrote:
No. It is not worth it, maybe in a group of three but only maybe as then that becomes your army.

-It cannot overwatch.
-it has zero mobility
-it has zero access to twin link now that ITC "voted" out buff commander gimmicks"
-the majority of it's firepower is str5 ap5
-is stupidly vulnerable to tank shock.
other things in the tau army do it cheaper and more efficiently.
-it's T6 with a 3+ save and a 5+FNP. sure you can buy the invuln but it's pretty pricey as far as upgrades go.

basically take any money you had to spend on a storm surge and buy ghostkeels and riptides/broadsides. they are overall a better investment in your army then a giant paper weight GMC. It's only saving grace is the amount of fire power it can put out in a turn(GMC's can fire all their weapons in the shooting phase), i shot 8D6 shots in a squad of 5 wolf guard and killed one of them.
they get D missiles with marker lights which is cool but they're one use only.
the str 10 gun is nice but it's 2 non twin linked shots at bs3. sure you can buff it with combined fire but why? anything you combine the fire power with with probably kill the target first.

yeah I'm sorry, but you really do not know what you are talking about.

ITC just voted on tank shock and SS basically ignores it completely.
It has 8 wounds
zero mobility LMAO. it can move 12 inches per turn.
You didn't even mention 4 destroyer missiles that can all be fired in one turn.

I could keep going on...

if you have it anchored(which why wouldn't you) it can either death or glory the tank it's being shocked by, or take D3 wounds since it cant sidestep.

eight wounds T6 3+ armor save, dies to plasma/ melta drop pods and grav.

yeah 4 bs3 D missiles depending on marker lights.

as gargs go it is amazingly underwhelming.

Compared to what? the ridiculously undercoated wraith knight? Then yeah. Do some research and watch some battle reports. The stormsurge is the MVP in almost every one.

Lets assume BS4 plasma guns

60 shots, 40 hits, 20 wounds, 10 through inv. armor save, 6.33 wounds after FnP. In fact, it takes 72 plasma shots to kill one. Yeah easy lol

meanwhile, you are shooting (assuming anchors deployed):
2 Str 10 AP2 Large Blast
8D6 str 5 AP 5
8 Str 5 AP 5 Ignore Cover
4 Str D missiles
2 Str 4 AP 5 Large Blast, Ignore Cover

All at different targets. Add in some marker lights for increased BS and Coordinated Firepower for +1 BS and you will be doing some serious damage.

Even a single one is super effective, but I hear two is that sweet spot. My Tyranid friend called me cheesy just for putting it on the table.