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Hi, i have a strange question for you .
I bought some models of chaos space army from time to time, i started approx. in 1995. I like the painting and modding part of this hobby, but now its time i would like to start playing (i found some friends with same hobby ). Now I have something like this:

20 CSM marines (some havocs)
14 Khorne Berzerkers
7 Plague Marines
6 Terminators
4 Obliterators
3 Hellbrutes
4 Bikes
4 Rhinos
1 Predator
1 Khran the Betrayer
1 Daemon Prince

Can you give me some advice what to use or some army list with this units? It would be great help for me.

Thanks, David

How many points are you looking to play at?

What are the weapon load-outs of the Pred, Termies, Helbrutes? What special or heavy weapons have you given the Bikes, Plagues and CSM?

I'm guessing you're not looking to be super-competitive?

I thought its not nessesary to play exact weapons which are placed on models.
Predator: its the old model, without glued weapons on sponsons ... i have all weapons which were in a box, but iam not sure what are they, they look pretty similiar with deamon heads on the end.
Bikes: 2 plasma guns units, sergeant with chainsword and bolt pistol, 1 without additional weapon
Terminators: combi-melta powerfist, combi-flamer chainfist, twin-linked flamer power weapon, autocannon power weapon, combi-melta powerfist, combibolter chainfist
Hellbrutes: its models from DV box , so i guess its 3x multi meltas


I think we could play between 1000-1500 points

Mad85 wrote:
I thought its not nessesary to play exact weapons which are placed on models.

Depends on the person you're playing with. Some people expect everything to be WYSIWYG, especially in tournaments, some people don't care as long as you explain what everything is armed with. But even with more tolerant people you want to keep the proxying to a minimum just so it's easier to keep track of it all.

I'll echo Peregrine in that it's dependent on who you're playing with, but if you're a beginner you've got enough to remember without having to wonder what your guys are equipped with, so I'd rather work you out an army that doesn't take up any more brain memory than necessary.

Tinkering results:
List 1 (Combined Arms Detachment), 930-960 pts
Kharn the Betrayer
9 Beserkers, Icon of Wrath
+Rhino, Dirge Caster

10 CSM, 2x special weapons
+Rhino, Dirge Caster

10 CSM, 2x special weapons
+Rhino, Dirge Caster

1 Obliterator, Mark of Nurgle

1 Obliterator, Mark of Nurgle

- This list combined Kharn and the 'Zerkers (Nexus of Khorne means he makes them Troops instead of elites, for the Objective Secured special rule), with Dirge Caster Rhinos to prevent overwatch (due to having to disembark the turn before you assault, because rhinos aren't assault vehicles, you're going to get shot at least once, so the Casters mean you reduce it a bit at least). The other two rhinos dump full loads of CSM into rapid-fire range before moving up to the unit the 'Zerkers will charge (since their rhino will likely be the first to snuff it) or claiming objectives. Obliterators provide ranged support, Mark of Nurgle means they don't die to a single S8/9 hit (i.e. Instant Death to a T4 model), and having them as two separate units prevents the death of one causing the other to flee (they can also target different units and with different weapons, more versatile!). You're left with points to give the CSM special weapons, and about 30-40 for Marks or other accoutrements.

List 2 (Combined Arms Detachment) 1449-1479pts
Daemon Prince of Nurgle with Wings, Power Armour, and the Black Mace

10 CSM, Mark of Nurgle
+ Rhino

10 CSM, Mark of Nurgle
+ Rhino

7 Plague Marines, 2x special weapon
+ Rhino

3 Terminators, 2x Combi-melta, 2x Power Fist, 1x Chainfist

4 Bikers, Mark of Nurgle, 2x Plasma Gun

1 Obliterator, Mark of Nurgle

1 Obliterator, Mark of Nurgle

Predator, twin-linked Lascannon and Lascannon sponsons

- Another mechanised list, this time with the tooled-up Daemon Prince (DoN gives the Prince +2 to his Jink saves, meaning this guy has a 2+ save against shooting weapons without the Ignores Cover rule). MoN gives the CSM a bit more staying power, as the DP unfortunately doesn't make the Plaguies into Troops, so you need the CSM for holding objectives. T6 bikers are difficult for some lists to deal with, and their mobility makes them a great harassing unit. Deep-striking the small unit of terminators to deal with a vehicle (hopefully on the turn they arrive with the combi's, but otherwise they need to be dealt with due to the PFs and CF).

Thanks for your time, these lists looks awesome.

Sorry to bother you , but i have few questions:

Kharn could be transported in rhino? I red somewhere that he could be transported only by Land Raider.
What special weapons do you prefer for csm squad? Melta, plasma, flamer, missile launcher?
That CSM squad include a sergeant, its mandatory, am i right?
And last question: what do you think about Mayhem pack of Hellbrutes from gaming point of view? I looked at Hellbrutes dataslate and the models looks just awesome.

Again, many thanks for the time, you spent on this.

Kharn can be transported in a Rhino, as he's not wearing Terminator armour (which Rhinos are not allowed to carry). However, he is better in a Land Raider, due to it being an Assault Vehicle (meaning you can charge on the turn you disembark), but they are considerably pricier (points-wise) than Rhinos.

CSM 'sergeants' (Aspiring Champions) are indeed mandatory - they are already included in the starting squad when choosing units. Because of the mandatory challenges, it's debateable whether it's best to keep them cheap (as any combaty character will much them in a challenge) or give them the gear to kill sergeant-equivalents (a power sword or similar).

The Helbrute dataslate gives some cool options for fielding 'Brutes, and I meant to mention it in my post but forgot. Definitely worth trying out as you have three already.

Special weapons are really dependent on what you expect to face, and what the rest of your force is capable of dealing with. Where possible, leave heavy weapons (missile launchers, etc.) to Havocs or small CSM units that will stay at the back holding an objective. For mobile CSM (like the units in my suggested lists) should take a matched pair, and there's the option of adding a combi-weapon of the same sort to the Champion too.
If you feel like the need to kill transports, take meltaguns and swap bolters for ccw's in the rest of the unit - you can then pop the vehicle with the meltas and aim to charge the contents when they scrabble from the wreckage (a unit can only shoot at one target generally, so the bolters would go to waste, but you can charge the occupants of a transport you destroyed).
If your opponents run terminators or monstrous creatures, Plasma guns are your friend. Due to being Rapid Fire, they match well with Bolters (firing Rapid Fire weapons normally prevents the unit charging, unless it has the Relentless rule like bikes do).
Flamers I generally don't bother much with - your standard weapons will deal with the same target selection, although they will murder things like Eldar Rangers and Tau Pathfinders easily.

Thank you for giving me some basic info about weapon use and all the other things.

If things going well, i will try my first game next week or after my next chemotherapy, first week in january. Until then i must study a lot of pages from rules... its the only possitive thing of this illness, its plenty of time to learn something.

Can i ask you ones more for quick help for a list at 750p (for first few games)? Modding some marines for sorcerer or chaos lord (even on bike) is no problem, iˇm painting, gluing,cutting plastic for week in a row

Mad85 wrote:
Hi, i have a strange question for you .
I bought some models of chaos space army from time to time, i started approx. in 1995. I like the painting and modding part of this hobby, but now its time i would like to start playing (i found some friends with same hobby ). Now I have something like this:

20 CSM marines (some havocs)
14 Khorne Berzerkers
7 Plague Marines
6 Terminators
4 Obliterators
3 Hellbrutes
4 Bikes
4 Rhinos
1 Predator
1 Khran the Betrayer
1 Daemon Prince

Can you give me some advice what to use or some army list with this units? It would be great help for me.

Thanks, David

Well thats a darn nice core you got there.

Obliterators are excellent. Make them Nurgle immediately. Don't even finish reading this before you do.

Predator probably needs to be a Lascannon version. Lots of LasCannons. the big bad wolf's in 40K are really big and really bad, so killing them fast is probably in your best interest.

Prince needs wings. Five times better with than without.

Slap something that looks like a "Dirge Caster" on those Rhinos. Because: Dirge Casters

Helbrutes: Ouch. I know they may look like a good idea at first. But then... I have tried like the dickens to like them but unless you actually take the Formation with a bunch of them, it's so hard to. Even then it's kinda RPS. There will be armies that will positively despise the formation. those won't be in the more dangerous opponents lists. But who knows? Your meta sounds like maybe its much smaller and close knit. so you might be able to actually influence the enemy lists enough to make them work?

I'd recomend picking up a codex (though, that may be a waste for CSM)- or at the very least get the Battlescribe App (there's a free version). Battlescribe will help you put together a list with the models you have and help you figure out what point value you're running. Even if you're unbound, nobody should have a problem- you're playing CSM. Nothing you have is anything people should complain about. If you have 3 Helbrutes- I would run the formation that lets them deepstrike.
Easy reference for stats, etc. with Battlescribe.

Mad85 wrote:
Can i ask you ones more for quick help for a list at 750p (for first few games)? Modding some marines for sorcerer or chaos lord (even on bike) is no problem, iˇm painting, gluing,cutting plastic for week in a row

List 1 (CAD, 748pts)
Kharn the Betrayer.
9 CSM with BP / CCW, 1x Meltagun, Power Sword on the Champion.
+Rhino with Dirge Caster.

10 CSM, 2x Plasmagun, Veterans of the Long War, Combi-Plasma on the Champion.
+Rhino, Dirge Caster.

3 Bikers, 2x Meltagun.

1 Obliterator, Mark of Nurgle.

List 2 (CAD, 749pts)
Sorcerer on Bike, Mastery 3, Sigil of Corruption, Spell Familiar, Meltabombs, No Mark.

7 CSM, 1x Plasma Gun, Mark of Nurgle, Combi-Plasma on the Champion.
+Rhino

7 CSM, 1x Plasma Gun, Mark of Nurgle, Combi-Plasma on the Champion.
+Rhino

4 Bikers, Mark of Nurgle, 2x Meltagun.

1 Obliterator, Mark of Nurgle.

List one is the 1000pts list just shrunk a bit, list 2 plonks the Sorc with the bikers (he can still join them even though they are Nurgled and he is not, as the restriction applies to characters with a different mark) - the reasoning behind not marking him is that marked psykers have to generate spells from the associated god-discipline (CSM Codex, p70), not marking him gives him more chance of rolling for stuff you want (in this case, either Biomancy for Iron Arm / Warp Speed / Endurance or Telepathy for Shrouding / Invisibility. You'll also get the primaris power due to Psychic Focus (rulebook p22).
Of course, you don't have to just go with whatever I've suggested. Change-up weapons to try different things or to match what you have modeled.

Chemo is rough (I'm sure I don't have to tell you that!), particularly getting tired from standing up too long - when playing make sure you've got a chair nearby to crash on with a bottle of water and some of your anti-nausea meds. I wish you all the best with your recovery.

Thank you guys for your advices, i was few days off and made a lille chrismas purchase on ebay and now i have 10 DA bikers...4 with plasmas . Now i trying to convert them to chaos gods with litlle help of green stuff... they are so cute ;-) Another news is that Im try tu built a Helldrake from Revel Mig-29 model in 1/72 scale, i dont like the original model from GW and im trying to have more machine than deamon look, so im really looking forward how it will ends :-D Plus i convert some old SM to have more Plague marines.... now i have 2 squads of 7 men.

I have some nice progress in rulebook studying, now i try to study Flyers from vehicle chapter so the core rules is almost behind me :-)