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Made in pt
Skillful Swordmaster




The Shadowlands of Nagarythe

 notprop wrote:
Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:
 notprop wrote:
There has always been plenty of other games for GW ones to compete with.


Name one massed fantasy battles game in the line of FB's that actually had a chance to compete with during its first few editions.

Chainmail by Gary Gargax/TSR. Released before WHFB had a Fantasy supplement to run hand in hand with D&D. Should have had a reasonable chance me thinks. But didn't have the minis tied in with it like GW/Citadel managed.


Yeah I was forgetting about Chainmail, and I agree there. It was the only real early competition, but the fact that it didn't have model support screwed it over. The fact that you had to grab GW's models to play Chainmail made it an uphill battle to begin with.

"Let them that are happy talk of piety; we that would work our adversary must take no account of laws." http://back2basing.blogspot.pt/

 
   
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Somewhere in south-central England.




 notprop wrote:
There has always been plenty of other games for GW ones to compete with. So there was TSRs Chainmail before WHFB and FASAs Battletech before WH40k.

GW introduces much more enjoyable titles in very attractive boxes/books. They were then able to compete at a scale that no other could match.

When everyone else was selling to distributors for 35-40% of RRP they were getting full RRP through their own shops and self publishing/distributing when allot of sales were done via mail order.

Tom Kirby was involved with this, many forget or don't know he was general manager long before GW went public.


What GW cunningly did was to grow off the back of the RPG revolution by selling all these games. It helped a lot that they made great figures for lots of these games. They also got the licences to publish many popular games, such as RuneQuest and Call of Cthulhu.

So there was GW in the early 1980s, growing its competitive retail chain, also being the distributor of a lot of the popular games, and manufacturer of lots of popular figures for these games.

In the early 1980s GW also started to make their own rules (WHFB), design games under popular licences (Judge Dredd) and publish their own original games like Talisman that competed directly with other companies' games. They also started to make games based on their own IP (Blood Bowl, WHFRP.)

Then came Warhammer 40K in the late 80s, and was even more successful and enabled GW to create even more figures and new games based on the same IP (Adeptus Titanicus, Space Hulk.)

For a long while, if you wanted any kind of SF or Fantasy game or accessories, Games Workshop was where you would go. They managed to knock out a lot of the rival shops during this period.

Then GW started to cut back their 3rd party ranges and licenced ranges, until by the late 90s they only sold their own developed games and models. However this still covered a lot of what any general Fantasy/SF player might need, ranging from RPGs to board games to skirmish to mass battle, all supported by ranges of figures and a growing literature of novels and background books.

Then came The Lord of the Rings, and this is where it started to go wrong.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/08 10:22:02


I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in gb
Wrathful Warlord Titan Commander





Ramsden Heath, Essex

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:
 notprop wrote:
Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:
 notprop wrote:
There has always been plenty of other games for GW ones to compete with.


Name one massed fantasy battles game in the line of FB's that actually had a chance to compete with during its first few editions.

Chainmail by Gary Gargax/TSR. Released before WHFB had a Fantasy supplement to run hand in hand with D&D. Should have had a reasonable chance me thinks. But didn't have the minis tied in with it like GW/Citadel managed.


Yeah I was forgetting about Chainmail, and I agree there. It was the only real early competition, but the fact that it didn't have model support screwed it over. The fact that you had to grab GW's models to play Chainmail made it an uphill battle to begin with.


Indeed one of Citadels first lines was DnD fantasy miniatures.

There were of course lots of other fantasy manufacturers (Grendel, Prince August et al) but few had the style and character of citadel miniatures. It really helped GW that you could go from the Fluff to the miniature line. You want a Fimir or a Dark Elf, they had something to match the artwork that had hooked you in the first place.

It doesn't seem at all revolutionary now but at the time it was a real boon.

How do you promote your Hobby? - Legoburner "I run some crappy wargaming website " 
   
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Under the couch

 notprop wrote:

As for the rest, well you entitled to you opinion I guess but MB games wasn't the making of GW. The proof of that pudding I would suggest is that it didn't continue.

Whether or not it was what 'made' GW, I would strongly suspect that relationship was far more beneficial for them than it was for MB.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/08 10:44:14


 
   
Made in jp
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Somewhere in south-central England.

I don't think GW would have much trouble being successful making and selling an excellent range of high quality fantasy and SF games, especially if they marketed them well.

GW's problem is that they don't make an excellent range.

Hence the decline of GW over the past 10 years, and their current attempts to rejuvenate their line-up with Assassinorum, AoS and the revival of Specialist Games.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





As with most success stories, they were in the right place at the right time. They were a small game distributer importing games from the US when the Dungeons & Dragons boom hit, and they managed to ride that wave. But they also formed partnerships with other players, such as Bryan Ansell, who's company Asgard Miniatures would be the genetic ancestor of Citadel miniatures. So it isn't just one success story. GW were more interested in selling RPG books. It was Bryan Ansell who saw the potential in miniature wargaming, and he ended up buying out the GW chain in order to distribute his miniatures as the RPG craze was tapering off. Bryan Ansell was actually quite a shrewd businessman, it was him that pushed specialist games like Hero Quest, Space Hulk, and Space Crusade in the hope that those more accessible games would bring fresh blood into the stores. It was a very successful strategy, most of us remember growing up with those games, and they were, for many people, a first step into miniature games. GW are probably still riding that wave now, something that the current GW management seem completely oblivious too.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/12/08 11:09:42


 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut





UK

One thing that's not been brought up is the huge number of minis they released during the metal era,

lots and lots of fairly basic conversions head/weapon swaps etc meant there were always new things to buy each month, and because they did the casting house they were dependable, they would arrive at the shop (compared to contract casters that might have issues with volume, or even getting anything done)

they also introduced fully illustrated ring binder catlogues you could buy and update so you could track what you had, and what you wanted to have while competitors were still relying on text descriptions

far easier to dream about picking up all these cool black orcs when you could see them

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/08 14:30:16


 
   
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That was definitely a plus, but think the key factor was vertical integration. GW licensed games, published games, designed games, distributed games, mail ordered games, and retailed games, for fantasy and SF. They also designed, licensed and produced figures for lots of these games.

If you wanted to buy nearly anything for fantasy/SF games, you could go to Games Workshp for it, and they controlled practically the whole value chain.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in us
Ork Boy Hangin' off a Trukk





 Tinkrr wrote:
 Xyxox wrote:
They went public.That changed everything.

That shouldn't change anything. Hasbro is publicly trade and it owns WotC which is probably one of the best consumer and small retailer based companies when it comes to MtG.

Konami is publicly traded, and while Yu-gi-oh is rather bad for independent retailers, it's reasonably good for consumers.

EA owns Blizzard and they still put out reasonably good games, sure WoW has been a bombed feature, but Hearthstone is actually very rewarding for players, despite being free.

Riot Games is owned by a publicly traded company, and they haven't really had any issues.

Being publicly traded isn't bad, it's only bad when the people in charge don't understand their user base.


Answers:

1) 4E D&D (The experience here was similar to the RPG world what AoS has become for the fantasy wargaming world)

2) I have no experience with this company

3) Mists of Pandera

4) I have no experience with this company.

Publicly traded companies have only one concern, profits in the next financial report.

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:
 notprop wrote:
Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:
 notprop wrote:
There has always been plenty of other games for GW ones to compete with.


Name one massed fantasy battles game in the line of FB's that actually had a chance to compete with during its first few editions.

Chainmail by Gary Gargax/TSR. Released before WHFB had a Fantasy supplement to run hand in hand with D&D. Should have had a reasonable chance me thinks. But didn't have the minis tied in with it like GW/Citadel managed.


Yeah I was forgetting about Chainmail, and I agree there. It was the only real early competition, but the fact that it didn't have model support screwed it over. The fact that you had to grab GW's models to play Chainmail made it an uphill battle to begin with.


I played Chainmail exclusively with Ral Partha miniatures, then later both the 1st edition and the 2nd edition Battlesystem rules set. Ral Partha (and to a degree RAFM) made a good array of miniatures to use in ranked fantasy battles.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/08 14:47:59


 
   
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Posts with Authority






 joseph_curwen wrote:
The importance of their early deal with Milton Bradley on Games Workshop's growth and success can't be overstated (although, weirdly, it's often overlooked, these days.)
They were far from 'the only game in town,' but they were the only folks to get their games and models sold in all of the toy chains, department stores, and book stores at a crucial time in the late 80s-early 90s which allowed them to develop their brand in a way their contemporaries and competitors simply couldn't and that laid the groundwork for the expansion of the storefront into a chain and everything that came after that.
HeroQuest is how my good lady was introduced to fantasy gaming.

(Things that make me feel old... I was already a DM when my good lady was born.)

The Auld Grump

Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.

The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
 
   
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Hard Plastic Multi Part Figure Kits..........Fantasy Airfix! I was hooked!

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 Tinkrr wrote:

Hearthstone is actually very rewarding for players, despite being free.


Oh, how I wish you would post that on one of the Hearthstone forums, like Hearthpwn You'll get the one guy who says, "Yes! I've played 30,000 hours since beta and haven't paid a single dime!" and 8,000 people post that there's no greater pay-to-win mechanism on Earth

But seriously, it's not really free. There's a part that's free to play, but unless you relish playing literally tens of thousands of hours and for months of bashing your head on a brick wall against people who just have better cards than you, you really *must* buy boosters. Plus, most of the single player content is much, much easier to unlock with money (a few bucks... or a few hundred hours of gameplay for a dungeon section...), and they yield cards that you "must" have if you want to be competitive.

The most expensive part about it is really the same "feature" as Magic. Every time there's an expansion, a good chunk of your cards become relatively useless, and some your prized cards become worthless from a game perspective -- because the new cards change the meta so dramatically. Incidentally, I love Hearthstone, for the same reason as StarCraft -- there's a GREAT matchmaking system to find you players of roughly equal skill, which I think is critical to good competitive gaming, and one of the reasons I largely avoid competitive tabletop wargaming (as poor matchmaking as is humanly possible).

GW *wishes* it could make a miniature game like that. Every year, pop a new release, everyone dumps half their army and buys all new stuff!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/09 17:56:05


 
   
Made in us
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 Talys wrote:
 Tinkrr wrote:

Hearthstone is actually very rewarding for players, despite being free.


Oh, how I wish you would post that on one of the Hearthstone forums, like Hearthpwn You'll get the one guy who says, "Yes! I've played 30,000 hours since beta and haven't paid a single dime!" and 8,000 people post that there's no greater pay-to-win mechanism on Earth

But seriously, it's not really free. There's a part that's free to play, but unless you relish playing literally tens of thousands of hours and for months of bashing your head on a brick wall against people who just have better cards than you, you really *must* buy boosters. Plus, most of the single player content is much, much easier to unlock with money (a few bucks... or a few hundred hours of gameplay for a dungeon section...), and they yield cards that you "must" have if you want to be competitive.

The most expensive part about it is really the same "feature" as Magic. Every time there's an expansion, a good chunk of your cards become relatively useless, and some your prized cards become worthless from a game perspective -- because the new cards change the meta so dramatically. Incidentally, I love Hearthstone, for the same reason as StarCraft -- there's a GREAT matchmaking system to find you players of roughly equal skill, which I think is critical to good competitive gaming, and one of the reasons I largely avoid competitive tabletop wargaming (as poor matchmaking as is humanly possible).

GW *wishes* it could make a miniature game like that. Every year, pop a new release, everyone dumps half their army and buys all new stuff!


Even the D&D collectible miniatures game never made the profits of a MtG or Pokemon for WotC, and thaat was with a built in massive market for people who bought cases upon cases to get miniatures for their RPG games and never played the miniatures game.
   
Made in nz
Trustworthy Shas'vre






 Talys wrote:
 Tinkrr wrote:

Hearthstone is actually very rewarding for players, despite being free.


Oh, how I wish you would post that on one of the Hearthstone forums, like Hearthpwn You'll get the one guy who says, "Yes! I've played 30,000 hours since beta and haven't paid a single dime!" and 8,000 people post that there's no greater pay-to-win mechanism on Earth

But seriously, it's not really free. There's a part that's free to play, but unless you relish playing literally tens of thousands of hours and for months of bashing your head on a brick wall against people who just have better cards than you, you really *must* buy boosters. Plus, most of the single player content is much, much easier to unlock with money (a few bucks... or a few hundred hours of gameplay for a dungeon section...), and they yield cards that you "must" have if you want to be competitive.

The most expensive part about it is really the same "feature" as Magic. Every time there's an expansion, a good chunk of your cards become relatively useless, and some your prized cards become worthless from a game perspective -- because the new cards change the meta so dramatically. Incidentally, I love Hearthstone, for the same reason as StarCraft -- there's a GREAT matchmaking system to find you players of roughly equal skill, which I think is critical to good competitive gaming, and one of the reasons I largely avoid competitive tabletop wargaming (as poor matchmaking as is humanly possible).

GW *wishes* it could make a miniature game like that. Every year, pop a new release, everyone dumps half their army and buys all new stuff!


Hearthstone is probably the BEST implementation of a micro-payments game that I've seen so far. Sure its not free, and you can pay-to-win, but if you're good at the Arena mode you can make unlimited gold without the need (or indeed, ability) to pay-to-win.
Lots of micropayments games will gate you from progress by artificial timeouts that can be unlocked using Paid Currency. Eg, wait 10 days for X building to construct OR pay 20 diamonds. There are generally extremely few ways to earn the Paid Currency in game, and they tend to decrease over time. Hearthstone on the other hand, you can consistently earn the Paid Currency by playing the game, and the better you are at the game the more quickly you'll earn it. Up to the point where if you can go >7-3 in arena and you can earn multiple packs per day... and while hearthstone is very RNG dependent, I've still managed to up my 'skill' that I'm now consistently getting 6-7 Arena wins vs the 2-3 I used to get. Its not instant gratification like paying real $$, but it is possible and far quicker than other micropayment games.
Also I just got a Tyrion Fording legendary in my Arena reward pack today. Awww yisss.


So umm. Topic... umm.
I think GW could really learn from the competitive MTG scene. The very largest 40k tournaments are around 300 players, but the largest MTG tournaments are 20 or 30 times that big! Its not like competitive MTG appeals to a significantly different crowd that competitive 40k, and its not like there is a signficiant price difference between competitive MTG and competitive 40k... so why isn't there some kind of large tournament like this? Official GW support (and much better rules) I think could create an amazing potential for sales.
   
Made in us
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Beyond the Beltway

Chainmail was published before Games Workshop or Citadel even existed. When I played, we used Minifigs minis, and Grenadier minis, and some other sources. The fantasy supplement to Chainmail was what inspired D&D, (among other sources) not the other way around.

At one point, according to Gary Gygax, there were plans to merge TSR and Games Workshop; Ian Livingstone and Steve Jackson were to have 25% of the combined company.

Here are the quotes from Gygax, c.2005:
...As an historical aside that has never been mentioned before, I wanted TSR to merge with GW, that enterprise getting a quarter interest in the new enterprise formed from merging the two companies, but Ian and Steve were charry of the Blumes. I couldn't come right out and say that I would surely vote with them against my erstwhile partners, so there went that.

...I suppose i might have leveled with Ian and Steve in regards to my concerns to the capacity of Brian and Kevin to continue to run TSR, but I was too loyal to do so. When those two sold out to Lorraine Williams, I truly regreted my decision :\ ...

...I actually told Ian Livingston about the reason for my plan, but that was long after he and Steve had left GW. Ian said had he known my reasoning, had my assurances, he and Steve would have agreed.


An interesting "What if?".

To the OP-- They made a product that people wanted, and offered support for the product.

Edit: added the quotes

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/14 05:19:05


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Talys wrote:
The most expensive part about it is really the same "feature" as Magic. Every time there's an expansion, a good chunk of your cards become relatively useless.
I actually kind of like that about Magic, or at least view it as a necessary evil. The fact that cards eventually cycle in and out of standard, keeps the meta evolving, and probably keeps prices down for newer players who want to be competitive. Magic without the cycles would be the "vintage" format, which is the most stagnant pay-to-win meta ever. It would really suck for new players if the only way to ever be competitive was to track down the same nine rares, which went OOP 20 years ago, and buy them on ebay for $10,000 each, so you can break the game and win on turn one.

I know some people view it as planned obsolescence just to make money, but I think Wizards do a pretty good job of nurturing a competitive environment. Unlike GW, who don't seem to give a gak about a competitive environment, and just make books obsolete in order to sell more books.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/10 06:45:48


 
   
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Ramsden Heath, Essex

There's no seem about it. If you read the design notes the likes of Jervis Johnson, Warick Kinrade and Rick Preistley they are quite open about the casual nature of gameplay they they aspire to and usually play.

There's even a section in the KampfeGrupe Normandy books design notes that says (and I paraphrase): "if you're arguing about whether a charge will succeed or fail by a matter of millimetres then perhaps you should consider another past time". And KGN was pretty straight forward for a GW ruleset...

How do you promote your Hobby? - Legoburner "I run some crappy wargaming website " 
   
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There is something in that, and I am not a fan of massively competitive games, at least of the big prize tournaments. I think it spoils things when people are playing for money rather than for the love of the game.

It has to be admitted, however, that Rick Priestley and Jervis Johnson never were the whole of GW, and their non-competittive attitude was not expressed by the company as a whole. For decades, GW promoted 40K as a competition game, with an elaborate tournament structure of their own, and significant support for indy events. This culminated in "'Ard Boyz", a format where you didn't even need to paint your army, far from a keen support of the hobby (as opposed to Teh HHHobby.)

All this was during the time they were growing. Their growth certainly has gone into reverse following abandonment of tournaments, though of course it can be argued how much of a contributing factor that may be. There is never one cause; prices certainly must play a part too.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
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Greece

I would argue that their view of friendly non competitive games is no excuse for a bad unbalanced game.

I dislike the notion that a good balanced game system (which is essential for a competition grade game) is a bad thing for casuals or people who want to do their own stuff (within the sandbox a game system provides), this is as far from the truth as it can ever be.
   
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I agree with you on both points. I would add that games don't have to be balanced, as long as it is understand that such games are not suitable for competitions.

GW's error was to promote 40K as balanced and use it for competitions while at the same time making it go more and more out of balance by fiddling with the rules.

At least AoS doesn't make any pretence to be a competition rulebook. I know a lot of people are angry about that, but GW are being honest.

However, this is getting somewhat off the topic.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in gb
Wrathful Warlord Titan Commander





Ramsden Heath, Essex

Did GW promote it as a balanced game though?

Tournaments are a straight forward structure for holding gaming meets and are far more simple to run than a campaign weekend for example.

Do get me wrong clearly there is a motive there for them to increase sales, but is it perhaps not a case of giving the player base what they want and then finding that they couldn't meet all expectations. Recent articles by Alessio Calvatore in WI and Rick Preistley in WSS both have commented on their annoyance of extensive 3rd party Comp changes and the atmosphere of competition generally in Wargaming.


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In the older 40K rulebooks there is a paragraph explaining how the game is balanced by the points system. This was removed from the 6th edition rules, and replaced with a paragraph about forging the narrative.

It’s pretty clear that the system of points, codex and Force Org Chart in 40K is based on the points and army list concept from WRG Ancients, specifically written as a competition ruleset.

I agree GW found it impossible to balance 40K. This was caused by their business model of constantly making changes to the rules, which made it practically impossible to achieve balance. It might have been possible if they put the resources into the project, by maintaining a mathematical model of the game, so that changes could be tested and balanced before release.

However, there is nothing wrong with competition gaming. It makes as much sense for Rick Priestley to complain about it as for someone else to complain about narrative gaming. Both formats are fun in their different ways.

I agree that tournaments and campaign weekends are different things. Actually, GW used to run both types of events, as well as the world-wide campaigns, which kind of combine both concepts, but they gave them up, and have recently started narrative campaign weekends with AoS.

Other companies and clubs also run competitions and campaigns, using many different rulebooks.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
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Battleship Captain




Definitely agree that Space Hulk, Heroquest and Space Crusade really pushed GW into the spotlight.

Since then, they have managed to capitalise on 'being the one on the high street' - Warmachine, etc, have the problem that parents see the store and more or less equate the store and the hobby - making it a lot easier to bring the critical next generation of players into the hobby.

If anything, that's probably why X-wing, of all games, has come closest to a serious challenge - because it's sold as a boxed 'board game' through stores like Waterstones and WH Smiths and Target, and then once you're playing, you can go and find all the expansions and the community via the internet.


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York, PA USA

My first fantasy miniatures wargame was Battlesystem by TSR. I got that in the 80's. I think this was around the time WFB first edition was also released. Overall I have always felt Battlesystem was a better game. What drew us to WFB was the army lists and background. Battlesystem had no points, you sort of had to work it all out yourself using the Dungeon Masters guide. WFB had actual nations and armies to collect. This organized collecting was something that really hooked me and I ended up amassing ranks of orc archers and goblin spearmen among others.

Battlesystem just sort of died. It required someone to organize the armies and battle. While WFB allowed MY army to battle YOUR army. This ownership of the little regiments made the game very addictive. Organizing your forces and adding elements to your army added an element to the game that Battlesystme lacked. While Battlesystem had superior gameplay but lacked a points system and organized forces.

   
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The hills above Belfast

They created a fantastic world that gamers and sci fi fans fell in love with. Simple as that

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Hamburg

 Knockagh wrote:
They created a fantastic world that gamers and sci fi fans fell in love with. Simple as that

I remember that in the 3rd ed this was the case.
But today, things have changed to the negative.
Not sure how the situation is in Great Britain?

Former moderator 40kOnline

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The liquidation of the Olde Worlde shows that people in GW's view fell out of business viability love of the b/g.

Perhaps it can be replaced in time by AzyrWorld.

IDK how 40K is doing, but I suspect there has been a drop in interest because otherwise we have to account all the reduction of sales of the past five years to WHFB. It's rather unlikely.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




Scotland

Remembering back to that time when they were still a smallish company they did something that other manufacturers didn't do. They started to produce whole ranges. The rest only produced a few figures in a range/ok if you just wanted a few but not ok if you wanted to build an army. It took a lot of manufacturers years to increase their ranges and many never did.

You could build an army one of two ways;first way was to buy ranges from two or three different companies and have the figures all different sizes(even though they were all rated at 28mm!) Or go to GW and have an army perfectly in scale and looking great. That was of course back when figures were dirt cheap! Ahhh!!!! The 80s!

 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

Historicals is different. There have always been full ranges of historicals for popular periods and armies.

Actually though, I was able to make a Dwarf army from some other manufacturer, I can't remember which, with a variety of troops. I've still got the figures somewhere, and was thinking of refurbishing them for AoS.

The difference with GW was they wrote rules to invent the different troop types for an army, which needed to have relatively large numbers of figures, and manufactured the figures needed for those rules.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in ca
Preacher of the Emperor




At a Place, Making Dolls Great Again

When I started 40k in I'd say 2002/2003, I was 12 and it was a crazy new world I'd never really seen.
Prior to that the only miniatures I'd seen were in big historical dioramas and had historical's been more prevalent I'd have probably played one of them but in 2002 Warhammer was the only game in town and my city had 2 GW's.
And since GW was the only store I knew to exist I went there, and it was beautiful.
It was the hobby centre I always wanted, the game fueled my weird ideas, creativity was endless really.
Even with my small funds I found ways to obtain things, when Lotr came out I adored the game as it was a fast paced, very cheap game (compared to 40k and fantasy).
Eventually the store became more and more restrictive, the entire thing felt... hollow. I looked at 4th with a bit of excitement, though not all of it was as cool as 3rd to me, but I was still young and while I played Yugioh, it wasn't nearly as cool to me as Warhammer.
But when 5th ed came about my armies no longer measured up (in this edition of tanks) and by 2010 model wargaming had been utterly shoved aside for my equally (if not more expensive) ball jointed doll hobby, a hobby that had no rules regarding my creative outlet, and while they had titan sizes and titan costs, the two hobbies obviously didn't cross until the dolls needed swords.
Even then.
I sat out all of 6th edition, focused really on dolls, MTG and life. Fantasy had a similar sort of sitting out, as 7th became unplayable to me and 8th I was very torn on (though I did play here and there, it being the only game I'd touch until it went away), now I simply don't play.
I didn't care for 7th ed of 40k after a few games and now, I feel unsure of where to go, wargaming wise.
It's not how it used to be, while the games around are good, solid games, they just didn't have the wacky nostalgia or the creativity Warhammer had for me, once upon a time. But it's gone now.
I never wanted to have such a low opinion of GW, and truth be told I so rarely bought new minis that the price never was the deciding factor (if it was I'd not have replaced it with a more expensive hobby) it was the rules, always the rules. I really wanted to play Harlequins but their rules were awful so I sold them. A mini has to be really special or cool to stay on my shelf (maybe if they were the ones from the 90s...)

They got big by having no competition, and now they do, and they can't stay on top forever.

Make Dolls Great Again
Clover/Trump 2016
For the United Shelves of America! 
   
 
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