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Whether you think of GW as a retailer or a distributor, they still need to project enough sales to make it worth creating a plastic kit over a metal one. Metal has very little initial cost, plastic has a very high initial cost.

JamesY wrote:They have never, ever sold well. Ever since their release the sales were poor. There is every reason to leave the range as it is, and no sales history to justify investing in a new line. If they come up with something new that they believe will show a change from their sales history then they might take the risk, but I doubt it. .

When the Sisters were first released, they were so successful that six months later, I, a starting player with a model shop, a newsagents that stocked 40k, and two Games Workshop stores in easy driving distance... could not find more than a single Seraphim Superior to buy.

The army has never sold well, because the army has never been easily accessible. Models that aren't on the shelves don't sell, it's as simple as that, and even at the end of the first quarter of 1998, six months after the Sisters' release, there were no Battle Sisters on the shelves.

NorseSig wrote:

 JamesY wrote:


@leopard companies being run by accountants, and not enthusiasts, is what keeps companies trading. Respect the bean counters.

If it were done correctly, the sisters of battle would be extremely popular and probably bring in a few more female players. Which is exactly why GW probably won't redo them aside from the whole would be smart and bring in more money thing.

A single line of miniatures that are women, regardless of the aesthetics of the models, will not increase the female player base beyond the most marginal of gains. It isn't the gender of the models that dictates them joining the hobby, and if it is, it'll need more than a token army for them to buy. Plus, and I hesitate to share this as I don't want to gender stereotype, but of the dozen or so female customers I used to have at my time with gw, they always went for evil armies (except one blood angels player, but still, vampires).

Furyou Miko wrote:


When the Sisters were first released, they were so successful that six months later, I, a starting player with a model shop, a newsagents that stocked 40k, and two Games Workshop stores in easy driving distance... could not find more than a single Seraphim Superior to buy.

The army has never sold well, because the army has never been easily accessible. Models that aren't on the shelves don't sell, it's as simple as that, and even at the end of the first quarter of 1998, six months after the Sisters' release, there were no Battle Sisters on the shelves.

Well that isn't a clear indicator of success. New armies will always sell by virtue of novelty. Also, six months of good sales might have just recovered the production and R&D cost of producing the army, without ever making profit. The likelihood is that, although you sold them well, they undersold elsewhere, meaning that their priority in the production line fell (if I remember correctly, they came out around the same time as the multi part plastic whfb kits started being sold). If they had been selling the way you sold them everywhere, they'd have been casting them none stop. And although I agree that it's hard to sell models that aren't on the shelf, it's not impossible. You only need to look at forgeworld to prove that.

The manager at my local GW says ''The models are too detailed to make out of plastic''. Just take a good look at Nagash. Then take a look at the sisters of battle. Yeah.

 jer155 wrote:
The manager at my local GW says ''The models are too detailed to make out of plastic''. Just take a good look at Nagash. Then take a look at the sisters of battle. Yeah.

At no point in time have GW managers ever been a reliable source of information.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 jer155 wrote:
The manager at my local GW says ''The models are too detailed to make out of plastic''. Just take a good look at Nagash. Then take a look at the sisters of battle. Yeah.

At no point in time have GW managers ever been a reliable source of information.

But still, that's the biggest BS statement ever.

 Torga_DW wrote:
Because they don't think the money invested in them will equal their returns. They're another power armour army with bolters, basically the bretonians of 40k.

I am confused, which army are you describing? Is it the Blood Angels? Or is it the Dark Angels? Or maybe the Space Wolves? Or the Chaos marines?
Sure, power armor armies with bolters never sell…

 Furyou Miko wrote:
They are scared that the idea of warrior nuns in the mould of Opus Dei and the Flagellants will raise a tide of angry social justice warriors demanding boycotts against Games Workshop for the fetishisation and objectification of women in an otherwise male-dominated game.

"Look, they're sexist pigs! They finally put women into their game, but its only so they can be kinky sex fantasies! They're raping me with their thoughts!!"

That is why a large-scale Sisters reboot is most likely remaining off the cards. Especially with their history as basically starting out as the Space Pope's Harem.

Remember: It doesn't matter how badass you are as a female, if there's sex anywhere near your concept - especially kinky sex - you're a patriarchical icon.

Even though the Sisterhoods' self-flagellation and punishment is completely non-sexual in nature, and is in fact in part done as punishment for letting their spiritual ancestors be used as sex toys.


The fact is that the Adepta Sororitas is about as politically correct as Donald Trump.

Let me introduce you to the army of 40k that ACTUALLY evokes kinky sex fantasy. Let me remind you that this army still includes those stupid models. Now, let me introduce you to the tide of angry social justice warrior demanding boycott against Games Workshop for it.
I am pretty sure this cute little conspiracy theory of yours about the “evil SJW” is just this: a conspiracy theory, with literally zero support from facts.

 JamesY wrote:
Plus, and I hesitate to share this as I don't want to gender stereotype, but of the dozen or so female customers I used to have at my time with gw, they always went for evil armies (except one blood angels player, but still, vampires).

Well, it is 40k. If they did not choose Tau, or arguably Imperial Guard, it was an evil army…

Oxy... I'm not saying it will happen... I'm saying they think it will happen.

Dark Eldar are elves, anyway, they don't count for anything.

On the note of 'girl armies', though - most girls I know who play 40k are either Chaos or 'nids. More 'nids than Chaos.

I think it's a self defeating cycle. Sisters don't sell enough now to warrant a reboot, so GW doesn't reboot them. Since they don't do anything with them, they don't make more sales. I also think there isn't someone as adamant about Sisters internally as Jes Goodwin and Phil Kelly were about Dark Eldar. There was a lot of material around the DE relaunch that got released online and in White Dwarf that showed they were really passionate for the spiky cousins of the Eldar.

It's easy to come up with stuff for Dark Eldar, because you have thirty years of Drow books by R.A. Salvatore and Dark Elf fan-fic on the internet, in MMOs and in fantasy literature to steal it from.

Sisters? Sisters require either actual historic research or actually writing something original.

That's hard, you guise!

 Psienesis wrote:

Sisters? Sisters require either actual historic research or actually writing something original.

That's hard, you guise!

Never mind that 28mm heroic is not a good format for the female form to begin with, or that since Juan Diaz departed, their attempts to sculpt women at all have been very hit or miss.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Torga_DW wrote:
Because they don't think the money invested in them will equal their returns. They're another power armour army with bolters, basically the bretonians of 40k.

I am confused, which army are you describing? Is it the Blood Angels? Or is it the Dark Angels? Or maybe the Space Wolves? Or the Chaos marines?
Sure, power armor armies with bolters never sell…

Exactly. There's the 'vanilla' space marines, who's power is that they're superhuman warriors. Then the blood angels, who's power is they're vampires. The dark angels who have a dark secret. The space wolves who are vikings. The chaos marines who's power comes from the dark gods. Already tons of power armour armies. Then there's the sisters of battle, who's power is that they're women. One of the problems the brettonians had was their basic choices had too much overlap with the empire - grail powers aside, they were basically knights and peasants. Empire got all the cool toys (dwarf forged armour, knight core units, +everything that wasn't knight related) leaving the bretonnians with vows as their shtick. Which ends up putting them in the 'too hard' basket for making them unique without posing a risk to other army sales. GW don't seem to think that the investment needed to innovate the sisters will equal their return. Fairly straightforwards.

FYI Sisters power comes from faith.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Oxy... I'm not saying it will happen... I'm saying they think it will happen.

So, are you saying that they believe nobody knows about their Dark Eldar products, but that magically everyone will about their Sisters of Battle?
Can I ask, what in the world makes you think they believe this?

 Torga_DW wrote:
There's the 'vanilla' space marines, who's power is that they're superhuman warriors. Then the blood angels, who's power is they're vampires. The dark angels who have a dark secret. The space wolves who are vikings. The chaos marines who's power comes from the dark gods. Already tons of power armour armies. Then there's the sisters of battle, who's power is that they're women.

Uh what? Have you missed the memo? The power of Sisters is MONEY! LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS OF MONEY! Also faith. And political influence (like, 2 or 3 seats among the High Lord for the Sisters + the Ecclesiarchy), but this is mostly useful to get even more money. They are the one that can show off with more bling than even Pimpeus Calgar himself. They can pay enough money to get basically even the most dumbass idea for a tank work. We have already an example of that (Exorcist church organ missile launcher tank…) but GW could do so many cool stuff with that aspect.
And wolves are not viking. That was before. Now they are just wolves.
Money is way more powerful (and political power more interesting) than being a vampire or having a “dark” secret or being a furry.

Seriously, if you think the Sisters power is that they are women rather than men, you missed basically everything about sisters, because this is just a detail. Marines are quite restricted in what can be added to them because… well, they are marines. People are already complaining about how exclusive stuff for one codex is stupid (and in term of fluff, it almost always is stupid when about vehicle or weapons or centurion armor)… Sisters are not in any way restricted by the Codex Astartes. They can have everything from frateris militia and redemptionist allies to anti-grav reliquary launching missiles…

I could definitely see the Sisters being viable with really minimal investment. A basic sprue with armless Sisters. Then a series of small sprues to make them Tac, Dev, Aslt or Cmnd (idk the Sisters terms). Throw in a similar series of kits for Rhinos & Chimeras. The only real kit that would be less versatile would be an HQ kit. Im imagining something along the lines of the SM captain. They could just continue with metal miniatures for the more SoB specific models like the Penitent Engine. To update the old metal kits an additional, small plastic sprue. Id like to see some mono pose Frateris Militia, like the Cultists. Top it off with $50 codex and a $75 Collectors Edition.

That's another good point. People keep saying it would be a big investment but in reality it wouldn't . Compared to the massive reboots that necrons and dark eldar got, more than half the sister codex is woman in PA who has a different weapon, all of which are already produced in various scales for other imperial armies. the vehicles would be a rhino plus one extra sprue. Even if their not certain they will sell, the risk is fairly minimal.

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

Sisters? Sisters require either actual historic research or actually writing something original.

That's hard, you guise!

Never mind that 28mm heroic is not a good format for the female form to begin with, or that since Juan Diaz departed, their attempts to sculpt women at all have been very hit or miss.

Lolwut?

While a lot of Raging Heroes' TGG line is largely cheesecakey, they have several miniatures that are head-to-toe carapace and/or power armor that look phenomenal.

Maybe GW doesn't have the talent within their stable of designers, I don't know, but it's not the scale of the model that makes it difficult. There are plenty of artists out there in the industry doing females in 28mm that look just fine.

 Psienesis wrote:

While a lot of Raging Heroes' TGG line is largely cheesecakey, they have several miniatures that are head-to-toe carapace and/or power armor that look phenomenal.

I underlined and bolded the important part. GW, as I make pretty clear when i talk about Juan Diaz leaving, can't sculpt women in 28mm Heroic for gak.

However, 28mm IS hard to work with sculpting women in greenstuff. Raging Heroes have been getting around it be producing their originals in the computer instead of sculpting by hand the old fashioned way.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Torga_DW wrote:
Because they don't think the money invested in them will equal their returns. They're another power armour army with bolters, basically the bretonians of 40k.

I am confused, which army are you describing? Is it the Blood Angels? Or is it the Dark Angels? Or maybe the Space Wolves? Or the Chaos marines?
Sure, power armor armies with bolters never sell…

 Furyou Miko wrote:
They are scared that the idea of warrior nuns in the mould of Opus Dei and the Flagellants will raise a tide of angry social justice warriors demanding boycotts against Games Workshop for the fetishisation and objectification of women in an otherwise male-dominated game.

"Look, they're sexist pigs! They finally put women into their game, but its only so they can be kinky sex fantasies! They're raping me with their thoughts!!"

That is why a large-scale Sisters reboot is most likely remaining off the cards. Especially with their history as basically starting out as the Space Pope's Harem.

Remember: It doesn't matter how badass you are as a female, if there's sex anywhere near your concept - especially kinky sex - you're a patriarchical icon.

Even though the Sisterhoods' self-flagellation and punishment is completely non-sexual in nature, and is in fact in part done as punishment for letting their spiritual ancestors be used as sex toys.


The fact is that the Adepta Sororitas is about as politically correct as Donald Trump.

Let me introduce you to the army of 40k that ACTUALLY evokes kinky sex fantasy. Let me remind you that this army still includes those stupid models. Now, let me introduce you to the tide of angry social justice warrior demanding boycott against Games Workshop for it.
I am pretty sure this cute little conspiracy theory of yours about the “evil SJW” is just this: a conspiracy theory, with literally zero support from facts.

 JamesY wrote:
Plus, and I hesitate to share this as I don't want to gender stereotype, but of the dozen or so female customers I used to have at my time with gw, they always went for evil armies (except one blood angels player, but still, vampires).

Well, it is 40k. If they did not choose Tau, or arguably Imperial Guard, it was an evil army…

It probably won't happen in tabletop, as SocJus tends to harbor FotM hipster types that won't take to the investment (both capital and temporal) required to enter wargaming. However, it's too big a threat for any industry to ignore. Look at the gaming industry. Look at the massive controversy that occurred because a couple of trust fund babies cried "misogyny" rather than answering claims of corruption and cronyism. No company wants to risk dealing with that sort of thing.


In answer to OP, it's a combination of apathy and lack of sales. WHFB was "only" making up 20% or so of GW's overall profits before it was killed off. SoB sales are bound to be proportionally smaller.

WHFB was also probably a much larger percentage of their costs. That's a lot of models being produced for comparatively small sales.

Yup. Females in armor and cloaks are just too hard to do.
Oh....wait.

That actually looks a bit silly.

Is that model plastic?

I believe the suggestion wasn't that it *can't* be done, but rather it'd be worse than the existing metals and would be monopose, so why bother?

Where's this '28mm plastic female models are hard to make' thing coming from? GW themselves already do that - Dark Eldar, Officio Assassinorum, Dark Elves and Wood Elves all have plastic kits with female models that look fine.

 JamesY wrote:

NorseSig wrote:

 JamesY wrote:


@leopard companies being run by accountants, and not enthusiasts, is what keeps companies trading. Respect the bean counters.

If it were done correctly, the sisters of battle would be extremely popular and probably bring in a few more female players. Which is exactly why GW probably won't redo them aside from the whole would be smart and bring in more money thing.

A single line of miniatures that are women, regardless of the aesthetics of the models, will not increase the female player base beyond the most marginal of gains. It isn't the gender of the models that dictates them joining the hobby, and if it is, it'll need more than a token army for them to buy. Plus, and I hesitate to share this as I don't want to gender stereotype, but of the dozen or so female customers I used to have at my time with gw, they always went for evil armies (except one blood angels player, but still, vampires).

Very true. Girls always go for the bad guys

 GoonBandito wrote:
Where's this '28mm plastic female models are hard to make' thing coming from? GW themselves already do that - Dark Eldar, Officio Assassinorum, Dark Elves and Wood Elves all have plastic kits with female models that look fine.

There was a quote from one of the higher ups at GW stating that it was difficult to recreate the flowing robes and hair of the SOB's.

I personally extended that to say I think GW's scaling isn't well suited to females. It's not that there aren't *any* good females in GW's line up, but to me, a lot of them just look like dudes with boobs rather than actual females. GW bulks up the facial features and limb thickness on their models, when you do that to a female it tends to look like a dude.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Torga_DW wrote:
There's the 'vanilla' space marines, who's power is that they're superhuman warriors. Then the blood angels, who's power is they're vampires. The dark angels who have a dark secret. The space wolves who are vikings. The chaos marines who's power comes from the dark gods. Already tons of power armour armies. Then there's the sisters of battle, who's power is that they're women.

Uh what? Have you missed the memo? The power of Sisters is MONEY! LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS OF MONEY! Also faith. And political influence (like, 2 or 3 seats among the High Lord for the Sisters + the Ecclesiarchy), but this is mostly useful to get even more money. They are the one that can show off with more bling than even Pimpeus Calgar himself. They can pay enough money to get basically even the most dumbass idea for a tank work. We have already an example of that (Exorcist church organ missile launcher tank…) but GW could do so many cool stuff with that aspect.

I'm aware of the fluff for them, but iirc (could be wrong here) the acts of faith didn't get introduced until 3rd edition. I agree, they could take the sisters in some cool directions. But that would require investment (time and money amongst others), and i don't think they see it as worth it. I'm not saying that it's not worth it, i'm just giving my opinion from the original post as to why gw won't do it. Their special power is being girls - the concept shouldn't exist, and yet here we are. Pretty much the only army (outside dark eldar) who even acknowledge (in miniatures format) that women exist. It is what it is.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
And wolves are not viking. That was before. Now they are just wolves.
Money is way more powerful (and political power more interesting) than being a vampire or having a “dark” secret or being a furry.

These days the fluff is just there to shoe-horn in new models. How many tweenagers do you know that are into heavy politics? Vampires and wolves sell to tweenagers. Wizards and wizard schools sell to tweenagers. Shady old men in a room making deals that destroy the lives of untold people isn't something i've really seen in that market.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Seriously, if you think the Sisters power is that they are women rather than men, you missed basically everything about sisters, because this is just a detail. Marines are quite restricted in what can be added to them because… well, they are marines. People are already complaining about how exclusive stuff for one codex is stupid (and in term of fluff, it almost always is stupid when about vehicle or weapons or centurion armor)… Sisters are not in any way restricted by the Codex Astartes. They can have everything from frateris militia and redemptionist allies to anti-grav reliquary launching missiles…

The restrictions on marines are only arbitrary because gw chooses them to be that way. Same with the sisters, they can get whatever gw decides they can get. GW has decided they can get forgotten. Personally i agree with complaints about the large degree of marine-variant-exclusive stuff, but that's a bit of a tangent to the main discussion. Also, given unbound, marines can have that stuff too anyways. I'm not trying to justify GW here, i'm just explaining what i see them doing. It can be painful to observe, but it is what it is. I thought bretonnians could have gone in some really cool directions too, but the end result was sideline them and i suspect ultimately they'll disappear pretty much entirely when stock runs out.

FYI in 2ed sisters had Scared Rites so the faith mechanic has been present from the start

 Torga_DW wrote:
I'm aware of the fluff for them, but iirc (could be wrong here) the acts of faith didn't get introduced until 3rd edition.

2nd edition had Sacred Rites. The Sacred Rites rules were about the morale and willpower of the Sisters, bolstered by their faith in the Emperor, while the Acts of Faith rules are much more about the Emperor Himself rewarding that faith by using the Sisters as an instrument of his will. Sacred Rites might make a Sister immune to all negative morale effects, but Acts of Faith could let her no-sell being shot in the face with a lascannon.

Sadly I think GW has blinded itself to the opportunity SoB bring. I think the only way we'll ever see SoB make a come back is if a third party company does a good enough version of the concept, that is successful borderline blatant enough to provoke GW into doing something with them.

In this era of small codices like Skitarii or Harlequin, SoB don't need to be big or a full sized codex; they don't need to be more than what's been written about them. They just need a few basic kits.