Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 MWHistorian wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:
backlash from SJWs

Honestly, I'll never understand that one. And I think this whole paranoia is pretty recent too…

Just ask Josh Wheedon after he got chased off of twitter by SJW's after Avengers 2.

Did you missed the memo? GW cannot be chased off twitter because they have no account. And if they did, they would be chased by their own fans, no need for SJW. Seriously, the average Dakka user harbor more ill-will toward GW than the average SJW against Whedon.

 Inevitable_Faith wrote:
Do they come standard with hit and run or is that a celsestine thing?

Standard with hit and run, and that his a big part of their identity. Marines uses jump packs to just reach you faster and apply axe to face. Seraphims uses jump pack to just dance around you, just out of reach, while filling you with bolts and prometheum and melta akimbo style.

 Inevitable_Faith wrote:
Personally I would prefer not to have actual wings, I feel DE already have them and there's lots of other armies with winged units too.

And Sisters place a lot of importance on being just “pure” humans with no modifications. Even Celestine does not have wings in the real model.

 Inevitable_Faith wrote:
nevelon you mentioned blessed ammunition, I gotta say that got me thinking and maybe a way to make our elite slot celestians worth taking? So all celestians have blessed ammunition, and the ammunition functions differently based on what prayers you recite.You could have one prayer for each of the weapons in the holy trinity. For example:

-Prayer of Purging: All bolters with blessed ammunition change their weapon type to Torrent S3 AP6
-Hymn of Purity: All bolters with blessed ammunition change their weapon type to Salvo 3/5 S4 AP5
-Litanies of Annihilation: All bolters with blessed ammunition change their weapon type to Assault 1 Melta S4 AP1 18" range

Give all Celestians artificier armor, power swords and make all their weapons master-crafted. With a special version of mastercrafted so that you do not have to roll individually for all model or something. Done.

 Melissia wrote:
... maybe as side units

Frateris Militia and Redemptionists as side unit. But the crazy machines as part of the Sisters, just like the Exorcist is.

Penitent Engines aren't part of the Sisters though, they're more like Arco-Flagellants than they are like Repentia. That's always been the case outside of people who don't read properly.

What with penitent engine? I mentioned the Exorcist, which looks and feels very different from the penitent engine…

It's the only thing I thought you could possibly mean when you said "crazy machines".

Sadly Hybrid I don't see those changes to celestians making them worthwhile at all. They lack a good delivery method, they have no true mobility outside of a transport, S3 T3 isn't an impressive fighter without some other nice benefits added. I just have a hard time imagining they'd ever make their points back or do anything other than get blown out of their transport then spend all game getting kited while they try to chase units down that are just going to move 6" a turn and fire. They'd need a lot more than just artificer armor and power weapons to make them good at melee, or getting there for that matter.

I understand the sentiment of wanting them to be good at melee but I just don't see GW making the huge changes to them necessary for that to happen, I think blessed ammunition seems much more likely as there is a unit for SM that functions similarly that I could see GW basing them on. Unless GW wants to base them on something like striking scorpions or howling banshees (which I see as unlikely) I can't imagine them being good at melee or getting into melee.

I also don't see much fluff about sisters ever wanting to get into melee with an enemy, they seem like a shooting army to me. I think GW should just make the changes to repentia and penitent engines to make them useable and we can use those as our melee units.

I know a couple people have also mentioned changing repentia to be essentially suicide bombers. Whether I think this is in poor taste or not (I think it is in poor taste btw) is irrelevant to the fact that it really doesn't fit the fluff for them. The idea for some repentia (not all) is that they can be redeemed by their actions as a repentia and be accepted back into the fold. I read of one cannoness who willingly threw away her armor and joined the ranks of the repentia to prove to herself and her sisters that she is worthy of them. She felt if the emperor had plans for her then he would carry her through and she would be able to repent and be accepted back into the sisterhood. She survived her stint as repentia and later became a cannoness. Surviving being a repentia is designed to be incredibly unlikely but if you do it's made to redeem oneself and join the sisterhood again. Strapping bombs to oneself does not have the same sentiments that repentia are made to showcase in my opinion.

Just my two cents

 Inevitable_Faith wrote:
Sadly Hybrid I don't see those changes to celestians making them worthwhile at all. They lack a good delivery method, they have no true mobility outside of a transport, S3 T3 isn't an impressive fighter without some other nice benefits added. I just have a hard time imagining they'd ever make their points back or do anything other than get blown out of their transport then spend all game getting kited while they try to chase units down that are just going to move 6" a turn and fire. They'd need a lot more than just artificer armor and power weapons to make them good at melee, or getting there for that matter.

They do not need to be in melee to use their master-crafted melta and flamers to kill stuff dead with being able to take quite a beating thanks to a 2+ armor save…
The power sword is the icing on the cake.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
It's the only thing I thought you could possibly mean when you said "crazy machines".

I literally mentionned the exorcist…
Does it look like a sane design to you?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Inevitable_Faith wrote:
Sadly Hybrid I don't see those changes to celestians making them worthwhile at all. They lack a good delivery method, they have no true mobility outside of a transport, S3 T3 isn't an impressive fighter without some other nice benefits added. I just have a hard time imagining they'd ever make their points back or do anything other than get blown out of their transport then spend all game getting kited while they try to chase units down that are just going to move 6" a turn and fire. They'd need a lot more than just artificer armor and power weapons to make them good at melee, or getting there for that matter.

They do not need to be in melee to use their master-crafted melta and flamers to kill stuff dead with being able to take quite a beating thanks to a 2+ armor save…
The power sword is the icing on the cake.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
It's the only thing I thought you could possibly mean when you said "crazy machines".

I literally mentionned the exorcist…
Does it look like a sane design to you?

If by not sane you mean awesome, then no, it doesn't look sane at all.
I love the exorcist. I don't know about you, but a missile launching organ sounds pretty rad.
I wonder if it plays toccata and fugue.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Inevitable_Faith wrote:
Sadly Hybrid I don't see those changes to celestians making them worthwhile at all. They lack a good delivery method, they have no true mobility outside of a transport, S3 T3 isn't an impressive fighter without some other nice benefits added. I just have a hard time imagining they'd ever make their points back or do anything other than get blown out of their transport then spend all game getting kited while they try to chase units down that are just going to move 6" a turn and fire. They'd need a lot more than just artificer armor and power weapons to make them good at melee, or getting there for that matter.

They do not need to be in melee to use their master-crafted melta and flamers to kill stuff dead with being able to take quite a beating thanks to a 2+ armor save…
The power sword is the icing on the cake.

Power Swords does make them look like Melee specialists, but yeah, as a backup weapon to help them handle things when their 2" optimum firing range fails to wipe the target out they sound pretty awesome.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
It's the only thing I thought you could possibly mean when you said "crazy machines".

I literally mentionned the exorcist…
Does it look like a sane design to you?

Yes.

That's the boring version.
Decorated Piano of death is best piano

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Frateris Militia and Redemptionists as side unit. But the crazy machines as part of the Sisters, just like the Exorcist is.

Arco-Flagellants, Death Cultists, and Penitent Engines are not part of the Sisters of Battle. They are assets used by the Ecclesiarchy. Penitent Engines are not "crazy machines". They're a tank with a missile launcher on it.

 Melissia wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Frateris Militia and Redemptionists as side unit. But the crazy machines as part of the Sisters, just like the Exorcist is.

Arco-Flagellants, Death Cultists, and Penitent Engines are not part of the Sisters of Battle. They are assets used by the Ecclesiarchy. Penitent Engines are not "crazy machines". They're a tank with a missile launcher on it.

I think you're getting a bit too literal here. SOB use PE's and they're in the codex. Where they requisition stuff is of no real importance.
Also, I think you meant, Excorcist.
I hated the pipe organ thing and went with something else instead.

 MWHistorian wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Frateris Militia and Redemptionists as side unit. But the crazy machines as part of the Sisters, just like the Exorcist is.

Arco-Flagellants, Death Cultists, and Penitent Engines are not part of the Sisters of Battle. They are assets used by the Ecclesiarchy. Penitent Engines are not "crazy machines". They're a tank with a missile launcher on it.

I think you're getting a bit too literal here. SOB use PE's and they're in the codex.

No, I'm not. In the lore, the Ecclesiarchy uses them. They need a priest, not a Battle Sister, to control them. They're not "used by the sisters".


And yes I meant the exorcist. Also there's only one C in exorcist.

 Melissia wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Frateris Militia and Redemptionists as side unit. But the crazy machines as part of the Sisters, just like the Exorcist is.

Arco-Flagellants, Death Cultists, and Penitent Engines are not part of the Sisters of Battle. They are assets used by the Ecclesiarchy. Penitent Engines are not "crazy machines". They're a tank with a missile launcher on it.

I think you're getting a bit too literal here. SOB use PE's and they're in the codex.

No, I'm not. In the lore, the Ecclesiarchy uses them. They need a priest, not a Battle Sister, to control them. They're not "used by the sisters".


And yes I meant the exorcist. Also there's only one C in exorcist.

Oh, the tried and true tactic of last resort. Correcting spelling and grammar. I bow down to your superior knowledge.
I know the fluff, I'm saying, the PE is in the codex and is used on the table by SOB. No priest needed. I'm talking game wise. So, game wise, by all intents and purposes, the PE is a SOB unit.

 MWHistorian wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
And yes I meant the exorcist. Also there's only one C in exorcist.

Oh, the tried and true tactic of last resort. Correcting spelling and grammar. I bow down to your superior knowledge.

The last sentence of my post was not the only sentence of my post. For someone who complains about others supposedly using shifty tactics, you're shamelessly using one of the most pathetic ones in attempting to shift the topic to that.

 MWHistorian wrote:
I'm talking game wise..

Which is what makes your argument completely and utterly irrelevant. Priests are in the same codex as Penitent Engines, are you going to argue that all ministorum priests are sisters, too? The codex includes units from both the Sisters and the Ecclesiarchy. Though the two groups are intertwined, they are not the same thing.

All Sisters are members of the Ecclisiarchy.
Not all members of the Ecclisiarchy are Sisters.

 Melissia wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
And yes I meant the exorcist. Also there's only one C in exorcist.

Oh, the tried and true tactic of last resort. Correcting spelling and grammar. I bow down to your superior knowledge.

The last sentence of my post was not the only sentence of my post. For someone who complains about others supposedly using shifty tactics, you're shamelessly using one of the most pathetic ones in attempting to shift the topic to that.

 MWHistorian wrote:
I'm talking game wise..

Which is what makes your argument completely and utterly irrelevant. Priests are in the same codex as Penitent Engines, are you going to argue that all ministorum priests are sisters, too? The codex includes units from both the Sisters and the Ecclesiarchy. Though the two groups are intertwined, they are not the same thing.

Umm...I did mention more than just your last quote. I addressed the rest. In fact, you even quoted (some of it) it right up there. Are there two of you posting under the same name?
And that doesn't change that attacking spelling instead of argument kind of makes you look petty.
SOB are a part of the Ecclisiarchy. They're the strong arm of the church. So, SOB use tools of the church. Otherwise it would be like saying the Army and Army Aviation are completely different organizations.
Either way. I think you're arguing to argue and I'm done.

 MWHistorian wrote:
And that doesn't change that attacking spelling

On the contrary, no one but you even pretends to care.

 MWHistorian wrote:
SOB are a part of the Ecclisiarchy. They're the strong arm of the church.

On the contrary, they're not merely the militant arm of the church, they also regulate it. You're basically making the same argument that someone might make when they say that, because imperial guard has psykers, that means that psykers are imperial guard.

 MWHistorian wrote:
Either way. I think you're arguing to argue and I'm done.

I'm arguing because I'm right. If you want to quit because you're not, go ahead.

the way I see it the sisters are the main armed force of the ecclesiarchy with the militia acting as auxiliaries, filling roles where a sister would be just to valuable to waste. these roles would be things like manning artillery, holding backfield objective and acting as a speed-bump against assault units.

regarding celestians, I am completely against giving them all power weapons, power weapons are expensive and are the tools of heavy duty assault units, which the celestians aren't and should never be. If the celestians use assault it should be defensively with rules such as counter attack and defensive grenades. I am much more in favor of making celestians fill a specialized shooting role, acting tactically to remove specific threats, this can be achieved by giving them blessed ammunition to respond to certain threats and the precision shot special rule.

The sisters have two veteran units, seraphim and celestians, with the seraphim being the exceedingly faithful, jumping from low orbit with flamer in each hand into a mob of orks, while the celestians are the more tactically minded veterans, hence why they are where the cannoness and palatines are drawn from instead of the seraphim.

That's not quite it at all, Vandire.

The Sororitas are the only military force the Ecclesiarchy is allowed to control.

The Sororitas are also the watchdog placed upon the Ecclesiarchy. They're the Army, and the FBI, and Internal Affairs, and the Secret Service, all rolled into one.

The Frateris Militia are just ordinary Imperial citizens who have formed a mob at the behest of a priest - usually a Missionary or Confessor - and are in the army because that's where the fight is.

The Battle Conclaves are... awkward. Arco-Flagellants are criminals who have been remanded into Ecclesiarchy custody to live out their sentence. Crusaders are cultists who have attached themselves to a given priest as self-appointed bodyguards. Death Cult Assassins are... well, Death Cultists, who have decided to follow the Priest for their own reasons.

Crusaders and DCA aren't really part of the Ecclesiarchy, and Arco-Flagellants and Penitent Engines aren criminals and witches who have been given to the Ecclesiarchy to be worked to death.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
That's not quite it at all, Vandire.

The Sororitas are the only military force the Ecclesiarchy is allowed to control.

The Sororitas are also the watchdog placed upon the Ecclesiarchy. They're the Army, and the FBI, and Internal Affairs, and the Secret Service, all rolled into one.

The Frateris Militia are just ordinary Imperial citizens who have formed a mob at the behest of a priest - usually a Missionary or Confessor - and are in the army because that's where the fight is.

The Battle Conclaves are... awkward. Arco-Flagellants are criminals who have been remanded into Ecclesiarchy custody to live out their sentence. Crusaders are cultists who have attached themselves to a given priest as self-appointed bodyguards. Death Cult Assassins are... well, Death Cultists, who have decided to follow the Priest for their own reasons.

Crusaders and DCA aren't really part of the Ecclesiarchy, and Arco-Flagellants and Penitent Engines aren criminals and witches who have been given to the Ecclesiarchy to be worked to death.

the sororitas is the only OFFICIAL military force the ecclesiarchy is allowed to control, big difference.
in the book faith and fire, their is mention of a saint called Ivar who was once a member of the planetary defense force but pledged himself to saint celestine as a milita and served under her for many years before returning to his home-world. from this we can see that not all milita serve only for the duration of a battle. As for the crusaders, they are a brotherhood of professional close combatants usually found on shrine worlds and funded partially out of generous donations from both the ecclesiarchy and the wealthy nobility. members join through invitation only and are drawn from former militia who proved themselves on the field of battle. since they are not technically part of the ecclesiarchy proper they can get away with this and not be a direct breech of the decree passive. besides, haven't you wondered how a group of cultists could afford power weapons and storm shields, usually weapons solely of the domain of the space marines and other elite warriors of the imperium.

even if you accept that they are not part of the ecclesiarchy, they can still be reliably called upon as a levy when the need arises by the priesthood to aid the sororitas as required. I guess it depends on your definition of a milatary force

I also never claimed that the main orders militant of the sororitas don't act as internal affairs within the ecclesiarchy

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
If by not sane you mean awesome, then no, it doesn't look sane at all.

I literally just asked for more of this in the army, so… yes, I do mean awesome .

 Melissia wrote:
Arco-Flagellants, Death Cultists, and Penitent Engines are not part of the Sisters of Battle. They are assets used by the Ecclesiarchy. Penitent Engines are not "crazy machines". They're a tank with a missile launcher on it.

Okay, I think I still managed to not make myself clear. Let's try again. The Exorcist is a tank with a church organ that shoots missile. This is some pretty crazy design. Does not look practical or sensible in the slightest. But it is also definitely a Sisters of Battle tank. It is manned by a Sister, covered in Sororitas emblems, …
I would love to get more Sororitas tanks (or walkers, or… stuff) that are completely Sister stuff, but have crazy designs in the same vein.

Priest, frateris militia, redemptionists, arcoflagellants and penitent engine are something else entirely, and are indeed not part of the Sororitas. I was never found of the penitent engine design, because with the driver strapped in the front with no protection, it should have T3 no svg. Unless you add techno-magic to the mix, but then it's not a disposable heretic being recklessly sacrificed as a punishment… I would gladly exchange the PE for frateris militia. I mean, just read this comic book! and tell me you don't want to have him on the battlefield .

Maybe in necromunda....

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
That's the boring version.
Decorated Piano of death is best piano

Someone somewhere called it the 5lbs home defense version. I laughed quite a bit.

 Vandire651 wrote:

the sororitas is the only OFFICIAL military force the ecclesiarchy is allowed to control, big difference.

OK.. no. Just stop.

I'm not sure you even understand what 'official' means in this context.

If they were allowed to control them, they would be official. They are not allowed to control unofficial military forces. What they have is a rabble of ordinary people who are in no way a military force.

in the book faith and fire, their is mention of a saint called Ivar who was once a member of the planetary defense force but pledged himself to saint celestine as a milita and served under her for many years before returning to his home-world. from this we can see that not all milita serve only for the duration of a battle.

Yes, and in Faith and Fire, we also have a Celestian Superior who breaks orders, brings down a loyalist cathedral, destroys an entire holy archive, and then gets a slap on the wrist and given her free choice of assignments as a "punishment" so she can go off and live with her girlfriend.

As for the crusaders, they are a brotherhood of professional close combatants usually found on shrine worlds and funded partially out of generous donations from both the ecclesiarchy and the wealthy nobility. members join through invitation only and are drawn from former militia who proved themselves on the field of battle. since they are not technically part of the ecclesiarchy proper they can get away with this and not be a direct breech of the decree passive. besides, haven't you wondered how a group of cultists could afford power weapons and storm shields, usually weapons solely of the domain of the space marines and other elite warriors of the imperium.

even if you accept that they are not part of the ecclesiarchy, they can still be reliably called upon as a levy when the need arises by the priesthood to aid the sororitas as required. I guess it depends on your definition of a milatary force.

They're still not a military force of the ecclesiarchy. Clearly, the Sisterhood agrees with this, because there are still Crusaders around who have not been purged by the holy bolter.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 Vandire651 wrote:

the sororitas is the only OFFICIAL military force the ecclesiarchy is allowed to control, big difference.

OK.. no. Just stop.

I'm not sure you even understand what 'official' means in this context.

If they were allowed to control them, they would be official. They are not allowed to control unofficial military forces. What they have is a rabble of ordinary people who are in no way a military force.

in the book faith and fire, their is mention of a saint called Ivar who was once a member of the planetary defense force but pledged himself to saint celestine as a milita and served under her for many years before returning to his home-world. from this we can see that not all milita serve only for the duration of a battle.

Yes, and in Faith and Fire, we also have a Celestian Superior who breaks orders, brings down a loyalist cathedral, destroys an entire holy archive, and then gets a slap on the wrist and given her free choice of assignments as a "punishment" so she can go off and live with her girlfriend.

As for the crusaders, they are a brotherhood of professional close combatants usually found on shrine worlds and funded partially out of generous donations from both the ecclesiarchy and the wealthy nobility. members join through invitation only and are drawn from former militia who proved themselves on the field of battle. since they are not technically part of the ecclesiarchy proper they can get away with this and not be a direct breech of the decree passive. besides, haven't you wondered how a group of cultists could afford power weapons and storm shields, usually weapons solely of the domain of the space marines and other elite warriors of the imperium.

even if you accept that they are not part of the ecclesiarchy, they can still be reliably called upon as a levy when the need arises by the priesthood to aid the sororitas as required. I guess it depends on your definition of a milatary force.

They're still not a military force of the ecclesiarchy. Clearly, the Sisterhood agrees with this, because there are still Crusaders around who have not been purged by the holy bolter.

heres a qoute from dark heresy book, blood of martyrs regarding the militia

the Frateris Militias
While the dictates of the Decree Passive forbid the
Ecclesiarchy to maintain standing armies, provision is
made for the defence of its holdings in time of crisis.
The offcers of the Adeptus Ministorum are authorised
to raise bodies called ‘Frateris Militias’ from their
congregations, arming them however they are able, and
commanding them to defend the Ecclesiarchy against
invaders and unbelievers. The Frateris Militias are not
standing bodies of troops, and their members might be
anything from farmers to scribes. Some may have prior
military experience thanks to service in a planetary
defence unit, while others may never have seen a firearm
up close or at all. What the Frateris Militias lack in
training and discipline (they are wont to fight amongst
themselves if left for too long) they make up for with
zeal. When a War of Faith is called, the militias gather
into vast armies of the faithful, who by belief alone may
conquer any enemy.

seems like a pretty standard levy force to me, not professional other then the crusaders, but still a military force, if irregular.

as for the book fire and faith, the deacon was a heretic, harboring multiple witch and dreaming of becoming a pskyer himself. how is killing him a treasonous act. also the celestian wasn't slapped on the wrist, she was busted down to the lowest rank possible and sent on a supposedly backwater assignment rebuilding a destroyed convent, and the only reason she wasn't executed or forced to join the repentia was due to the deacon the orders originated from was a heretic.

finnally it's the ordo hereteculus that watchs for breaches of the decree passive, sisters role in internal affairs are more making sure that the cardinals and lower priesthood follow the decrees set by the ecclesiarch and not go rogue or engage in heretical beliefs

I do agree however that the word official is a poor choice of words regarding the militia since I was more talking about the crusader houses then the militia, the sororitas is the only OFFICIAL PROFESSIONAL military force the ecclesiarchy is allowed to control
is probably better worded

Ahem: "The Frateris Militias are not standing bodies of troops"

They are an ad-hoc militia. Not a proper army of soldiers.

Sororitas are still not the "official army commanded by the Ecclesiarchy". The Church works with the Sisterhood, but ultimately, the Sisterhood also regulates the Church and in its best times keeps the Church from its excesses. The Church is technically not allowed any standing army, at all-- thus the Sororitas' independence.

 Melissia wrote:
Ahem: "The Frateris Militias are not standing bodies of troops"

They are an ad-hoc militia. Not a proper army of soldiers.

Achem.

That would depend on where they were raised from. The Maccabian Militia is a frateris militia, strictly speaking, but it also doubles as the PDF for the shrine world of Maccabeus Quintus.

They're known for their frankly suicidal level of discipline, and are the recruiting ground for the Maccabian Janissaries IG regiments.

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Ahem: "The Frateris Militias are not standing bodies of troops"

They are an ad-hoc militia. Not a proper army of soldiers.

Achem.

That would depend on where they were raised from. The Maccabian Militia is a frateris militia, strictly speaking, but it also doubles as the PDF for the shrine world of Maccabeus Quintus.

As they are the Planetary Defense Force, they are not the standing army of the Ecclesiarchy. PDFs fall under the Departmento Munitorum, not the Ecclesiarchy. While they can call upon the PDF to follow their rule, at any time, the Munitorum may exert its official control. Whether or not this means anything in the story depends entirely on the writer, of course, but the Munitorum has official control, not the Ecclesiarchy. The Ecclesiarchy is explicitly and specifically disallowed from having a standing army. The Sisters have been allowed to flourish by the Imperium at large not because they're some standing army of the Ecclesiarchy-- It's really hard to describe them as such regardless-- but rather, because of a technicality in the rules, as well as the fact that they regulate the greatest excesses of the Ecclesiarchy and assist the Inquisition in hunting down heretics.

The irony is not lost on some of us that squabbling about the Frateris Militia is being conducted by some of Dakka's own versions of Frateris Militia: so full of righteous zeal, blinded by their own beliefs, and never willing to back down from even the most insignificant conflict

The difference is here there's no bloodshed. Just the occasionally bruised ego.