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Note: This is not about ITC ruling of anything, as that doesn't concern me. Rather I'd like a clarification on how the various effects work in the formations.

Riptide Wing - Coordinated Attacks (Mont'ka pg. 192):
In the Shooting phase, add 1 to the Ballistic Skill of a Riptide from this Formation if it shoots at a unit that has already been shot at this phase by any other Riptide from this Formation.

-> That one seems pretty straightforward. Subsequent shooters will get the benefit of +1BS, the first one misses the benefits.

Fire Team (Tau Codex p. 115):
Whilst a unit with this special rule includes 3 vehicles or Monstrous Creatures, all vehicles and Monstrous Creatures in the unit have +1 Ballistic Skill.

-> Seems to combine with above, giving the first shooter +1 and the rest +2 BS.

Hunter Contingent - Coordinated Firepower (Tau Codex p. 71):
Whenever a unit from a Hunter Contingent selects a target in the shooting phase, any number of other units from the same Detachment who can still shoot the same target can add their firepower to the attack. These units must shoot the same target, resolving their shots as if they were a single unit - this includes the use of markerlight abilities. When 3 or more units combine their firepower, the firing models add 1 to their Ballistic Skill.

This is where it gets a bit more complicated. There have been discussions what "combining firepower" actually means and as far as I can tell, there's no agreement between various sides. Not taking that into account, when is this power triggered? My reading is that when I announce that 3 Riptides as single units will all target the same enemy unit, Coordinating Firepower, they all get +1 BS (=the firing models).

If I do have 3 Riptides as single unit and they triggered Coordinated Firepower, first Riptide would be at +2 BS (Coordinated Firepower + Fire Team) and the next 2 Riptides at +3 BS (Coordinated Attacks + Coordinated Firepower + Fire Team).

I can't read the rules in any other way and that itself looks very powerful. Add a minimum drone net and target locks for Riptides and this seems very effective.

What is your take on this?




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Aha, as a quick reply to myself, but I don't have the option of getting Riptide Wing as Hunter Contingent. Bah....

Naw wrote:
Note: This is not about ITC ruling of anything, as that doesn't concern me. Rather I'd like a clarification on how the various effects work in the formations.

Riptide Wing - Coordinated Attacks (Mont'ka pg. 192):
In the Shooting phase, add 1 to the Ballistic Skill of a Riptide from this Formation if it shoots at a unit that has already been shot at this phase by any other Riptide from this Formation.

-> That one seems pretty straightforward. Subsequent shooters will get the benefit of +1BS, the first one misses the benefits.

Fire Team (Tau Codex p. 115):
Whilst a unit with this special rule includes 3 vehicles or Monstrous Creatures, all vehicles and Monstrous Creatures in the unit have +1 Ballistic Skill.

-> Seems to combine with above, giving the first shooter +1 and the rest +2 BS.

Hunter Contingent - Coordinated Firepower (Tau Codex p. 71):
Whenever a unit from a Hunter Contingent selects a target in the shooting phase, any number of other units from the same Detachment who can still shoot the same target can add their firepower to the attack. These units must shoot the same target, resolving their shots as if they were a single unit - this includes the use of markerlight abilities. When 3 or more units combine their firepower, the firing models add 1 to their Ballistic Skill.

This is where it gets a bit more complicated. There have been discussions what "combining firepower" actually means and as far as I can tell, there's no agreement between various sides. Not taking that into account, when is this power triggered? My reading is that when I announce that 3 Riptides as single units will all target the same enemy unit, Coordinating Firepower, they all get +1 BS (=the firing models).

If I do have 3 Riptides as single unit and they triggered Coordinated Firepower, first Riptide would be at +2 BS (Coordinated Firepower + Fire Team) and the next 2 Riptides at +3 BS (Coordinated Attacks + Coordinated Firepower + Fire Team).

I can't read the rules in any other way and that itself looks very powerful. Add a minimum drone net and target locks for Riptides and this seems very effective.

What is your take on this?




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Aha, as a quick reply to myself, but I don't have the option of getting Riptide Wing as Hunter Contingent. Bah....

It can get even crazier rule wise if you consider that you could fire the smaller weapons on the 1st riptide 1st and then a different weapon from the 2nd/3rd ritpide, then the main weapon from the 1st riptide again, meaning that the main weapon on the 1st riptide will also get the +1BS from Coordinated Attacks since another riptide (2nd/3rd) has already shot at the target before the 1st riptide shoots its main weapon.

notredameguy10 wrote:
It can get even crazier rule wise if you consider that you could fire the smaller weapons on the 1st riptide 1st and then a different weapon from the 2nd/3rd ritpide, then the main weapon from the 1st riptide again, meaning that the main weapon on the 1st riptide will also get the +1BS from Coordinated Attacks since another riptide (2nd/3rd) has already shot at the target before the 1st riptide shoots its main weapon.

Only if "another Riptide" is meant as another model and not another unit.

Of course, the OP pointed out that, "I don't have the option of getting Riptide Wing as Hunter Contingent. Bah...." indicates that there is no chance to combine these Special Rules in one go.

Yeah, the riptide wing is either a separate formation detachment; or it is part of the FSE cadre. It can never be part of the hunter cadre,so no +3 bs.

If Riptide is the name of the data sheet, then you have to go with the "another riptide" meaning "another unit "riptide".

I think the rule is more forgiving as it specifically says "another Riptide from this Formation" and I could have three units of single Riptides. Of course as the shooting is by units at a time and Hunter Contingent was not an option, the original Riptide will never be in a position to benefit from this rule.

Aassuming you fire atleast 2 riptides at the same target, with a full Riptide Wing i.e. 3x3 Riptides you will have BS5 to Fire Team and Riptide Coordinated Attacks (first shot secondary weapon will be BS 4 though).

Ah, very true! I'm still disappointed that I can't get them to work with the Hunter Contingent

nosferatu1001 wrote:
If Riptide is the name of the data sheet, then you have to go with the "another riptide" meaning "another unit "riptide".

Not necessarily. There are many units named after the models they operate with. Special rules are not always about the unit names like Formation Unit Lists are supposed to be.

And before someone else brings up Skyhammer, Assault Squads and Devastator Squads are made up of Marines and Sergeant variants, not Assault Squads and Devastator Squads, so are not a good point of reference on this.

I asked a similar question earlier about the Riptide Wing and this is the answer I got.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/672475.page

 Nilok wrote:
I asked a similar question earlier about the Riptide Wing and this is the answer I got.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/672475.page

[Riptide Wing 3x3]
If you have multiple models in the same unit the first Riptide in a unit that fires can use a different secondary weapon (e.g. Plasma) to fire first thus allowing all subsequent shots from any other Riptide that targets the same target to get +1BS. You also get Fire Team bonus +1BS for 3 models in a unit.

[Riptide Wing 3x1]
If you have multiple single model units the first Riptide unit must fire all of its weapons before the next unit can. Almost same as before but you lose out on +BS on first Riptide unit main weapon. You do not get Fire Team bonus.

[ Coordinated Firepower] NOTE Riptide Wing cannot be combined with CF, it is not part of the Hunter Contingent formations.
If you have 3+ Riptides (single model units or in same unit doesn't matter) you will get the following bonuses: CF +1BS, Fire Team +1BS.

And I believe that closes this thread :-)