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You know those units. The ones that have effectively no options whatsoever. The Necron Codex is especially well-known for this (and one could argue this is intentional), but other armies have their bland-toast units.

You know the ones I speak of:
Vespids are 5 models strong. You may include 5 more Vespids, and upgrade one to a Stingwing Leader.
Mandrakes are 5 models strong. You may include 5 more Mandrakes, and upgrade one to a Nightfiend.
Flash Gitz are 5 models strong. You may include up to 5 more Flash Gitz, and take a Transport.

That's it. No specials, no unique wargear/weapon swaps, or anything whatsoever.

The point of this thread is simple:
Find a particular unit that both lacks any meaningful options, and could arguably stand to have such options. Suggest options to give the unit more flexibility and customization. For some, like Aspect Warriors, the innate "mono-purpose" loadouts can be considered acceptable. For others (like the Gorkanaut/Morkanaut), the lack of options is criminal.

Units of interest:
>Electropriests of either stripe.
>Repentia
>Most Daemon units, really.
>Mandrakes
>Incubi
>Ogryns of any stripe.
>Ratlings
>Battle Psykers
>Flash Gitz
>A lot of Tyranid beasts.
>Vespids

Hard-Mode: Suggest a vehicle upgrade armory for Necrons.

Here's a few spitball options:

Sisters Repentia: Mistress of Repentance may exchange her power armor for artificer armor - 10 points. May upgrade to a veteran Mistress, gaining a Celestian statline, 10 points. Mistress may take a Simulacrum Imperialis, 10 points.
(Note, I'd also make Canonesses and Celestians Superior able to take artificer armor)

Vespids: The entire squad may exchange their neutron blasters for neutron pistols and stingdirks - 1ppm. One model per five models may exchange their neutron blaster for a neutron cannon - 15 pts. Strain Leader may exchange his neutron blaster for a neutron cannon - 15 pts. Entire squad may take Adrenal Modulators - 3ppm.
Neutron Pistol: 9" S5 AP3 Pistol
Stingdirk: S User AP6 Melee, Poisoned (5+)
Neutron cannon: 24" S5 AP3 Assault 3
Adrenal Modulator: Furious Charge, Hammer of Wrath.

Mandrakes: Nightfiend may take a power sword (15 pts) or Agonizer (20 pts).
(Note, Mandrakes need a lot more than this. Their problems go far beyond a lack of options. Giving them Daemon, and their CC weapons Rending and/or Poisoned would be a start.)

Incubi: Entire unit may take plasma grenades (2 ppm). Klaivex may take haywire grenades (5 pts).

You should probably look at the models you have in your armies. If any of them look different than things that already have rules, then you should post about them and make up some rules,







because that is what the rules are for.

pelicaniforce wrote:
You should probably look at the models you have in your armies. If any of them look different than things that already have rules, then you should post about them and make up some rules,

because that is what the rules are for.

A narrow and petty view, intended to shut down an interesting thread. Rules drive models as often as models drive rules (only recently has GW even attempted to provide models for everything in their codexes).

I would say not every unit needs a lot of options. Necron Warriors, for instance, work well in the game and thematically as faceless identical robots. But the other units identified in the thread are prime candidates for some spice.

pelicaniforce wrote:
You should probably look at the models you have in your armies. If any of them look different than things that already have rules, then you should post about them and make up some rules,







because that is what the rules are for.

As stated above, you can make up rules for models. There's not some cosmic law against it, and what GW does is stupid and results oftentimes in gakky rules.

I've had some thoughts for the dark eldar units. I even wrote up the mandrake ones a while back (though they make less sense post-7th edition dark kin book). I plan to post a cleaned up version of the incubi stuff after the holidays stop making my schedule chaotic.

Incubi:
* variant that gives them scourge wings making them jump infantry. Can ride in transports and take "klaive wings" that make their hammer of wrath attacks nastier.
* variant that specializes in using blood stones to greater effect (see below).
* Old-school variant that can mix in special weapons into incubus squads. Blasters, shredders, etc.

New wargear for klaivex:
bloodstones: s3, ap3, template, squad counts as having assault grenades.

bloodstone array: bloodstones that gain the torrent rule.

swap klaive for power weapon and blast pistol

Hand of Khaine: swap out one normal attack for an initiative 1, ap 1, strength X 2 attack

Tormentor Helm: as per striking scorpion mandiblasters.

*Combat Style: think 6th edition exarch powers or murderous onslaught.



For mandrakes, I had thought of:
* nightfiends gaining access to special weapons
* purchase deepstrike for the squad
* squad gains a night-fighting aura (no longer applicable)
* balefire power boost upgrade
* shadow king hq unit that makes mandrakes troops (can you tell how old these ideas are?)

Wraithguard/blades are one unit that you can upgrade the members from having the two swords to the axe/shield, wraithcannon, or d-scythe for the points difference. Let them be less of a one dimensional unit and show that they house the spirits of heroes of the race.

I would do the same with guardians, but the corsairs cover that angle.

I just dislike dual infantry kits that share everything but weapons and they try to claim they aren't the same unit

Wyldhunt wrote:

Incubi:
* variant that gives them scourge wings making them jump infantry. Can ride in transports and take "klaive wings" that make their hammer of wrath attacks nastier.

Now this I really like.

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
I just dislike dual infantry kits that share everything but weapons and they try to claim they aren't the same unit

Post 5th-ed units are very guilty of this in general. For some stuff, it makes "sense" (Necrons have 3 vehicles which are either transport or supergun) while for many others it's a bit out of line.

I feel the entire Admech line is the most offensive example of this trend. Rangers and Vanguard are the same unit except for a single gun and some funky cc rule. Ruststalkers and Infiltrators are the same unit again. Breachers and Destroyers are the same. Corpuscarii and Fulgurites (and these guys don't get any options besides "more models", etc).

I can understand the OP wanting to address the symptoms of the problem.

But why do units need more options to make them useful in game?

Is there a lack of tactical depth in the game play that needs addressing, or are units just made on the rule of cool, without any real thought as to functionality in game?

Throwing lots of special rules and cool looking models into a game to detract from the 'core issues' , is the simplest superficial solution, and the one GW want to use.

Should we be following this trend of adding complication , rather than sorting out the real issues?

In other games units can be used in multiple ways in the game , so 'special snow flake rules and equipment' are not needed.(Other than to add a bit of flavor.)

And most other games use units that have a useful function in game.

Wyldhunt wrote:
I've had some thoughts for the dark eldar units. I even wrote up the mandrake ones a while back (though they make less sense post-7th edition dark kin book). I plan to post a cleaned up version of the incubi stuff after the holidays stop making my schedule chaotic.

I like the idea of Bladewings for Scourges, giving their Hammer of Wrath attacks Shred. I'm not so sure about wings for Incubi. Functionally, they make sense ("Assault infantry go faster"), but thematically, not as sure (Incubi being some of the only "reliable" protection in 40k, seeing stuff like Defensive Grenades would probably make more sense )

Lanrak wrote:
I can understand the OP wanting to address the symptoms of the problem.
But why do units need more options to make them useful in game?
Is there a lack of tactical depth in the game play that needs addressing, or are units just made on the rule of cool, without any real thought as to functionality in game?

There are definitely issues with the core 40k game as a whole (Pure infantry armies have no place, too many units are 'fight infantry in melee and do nothing else', miscosted wargear options, a messy objectives system...) but those get discussed a fair bit anyway. I figure why not discuss a 'your dudes/rule of cool' thread in general?