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Now from my understanding the Horus Heracy was easily the most important event in 40k/30k lore. But there is one thing that many people overlook, and that is were the Lovely Marines conceived pre or post Heracy? If they were not involved in the conflict then what do you think they could have brought to the table if they were? Could they have stopped the rebellion?

If they were involved in the conflict then why weren't they able to stop Chaos? I sense a conspiracy afoot.

Not sure if troll or... Space Marines existed before the Horus Heresy...

Lovely Marines? Sounds like something from 1d4chan. Also, a TRUE 40k fan would get the name of "the most important event in 40k/30k lore" right.

As all Marines are perfect warriors and immune to chaos, they could have easily stopped the Horus Heresy. I mean, it was just Horus, a single small man with no special abilities.

How can you possibly suggest the Horus Heresy is the biggest event in the lore. It many the titular event, but it's far from the most important. The war in the Heavens, the fall of the Eldar, the birth of the Emperor, the Shattering of the C'tan.

All of these over shadow the squabbling of demigods who has the emotional age of a 6 yr old. Hours Heresy sets the stage for 40k, therefore a lot of time is.devoted to it but it is far from the most important.

Beware! 'Ere there be trolls!

If you want to really dig down to deep and a bit obscure. You can always ask questions like: "Who does Nurgle supposedly keep by his cauldron?" Or "What two Gods fought over Khaela Mensha Khain that caused his sundering?".

Everyone seems to know about marines and the Imperium. I feel like the small important details of the xenos races are the ones that most people will overlook. Be they bits of Eldar, Daemon, Ork, or Necron lore. The Eldar in particular are now very well fleshed out. They have started to receive more books and more face-time. Nothing like furling the solar sails, turning off the gravitic drives, and riding the psychic matrix of the webway all the way home.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
How can you possibly suggest the Horus Heresy is the biggest event in the lore. It many the titular event, but it's far from the most important. The war in the Heavens, the fall of the Eldar, the birth of the Emperor, the Shattering of the C'tan.

All of these over shadow the squabbling of demigods who has the emotional age of a 6 yr old. Hours Heresy sets the stage for 40k, therefore a lot of time is.devoted to it but it is far from the most important.

Considering 40k is almost singularly focused on the Imperium, the Horus Heresy is definitely the most important event. Events like the Fall or the War in Heaven are vague background events, that we also know next to nothing of.

Remind me, do the Necrons or Eldar have massive book series with fifteen or more novels focused solely on that event, or an entire game focused on it?

The fall of the Eldar saw the automated Psychomaton armies vanish in the blink of an eye. An entire civilization whose excesses included riding irradiated solar winds for fun encased in energy shields simply vanished as a galactic power. THE Empire throughout most of known history, that hegemony that held the galaxy for millions of years at its beck and call, simply ceased to be. Paving the way for the Emperor and his armies to retake the far flung and disparate human colonies that had seeded the locations in the galaxy that the Eldar did not care to take for themselves. Not to mention the birth of the fourth Chaos god.

Then you had the war in heaven that saw the fall of the Old Ones, the creation of the Orks (Eldar and Enslavers), the internent of the Necrons, and the rise of the Eldar Empire.

All of these events are extremely important. They set the stage, alongside the Horus Heresy, for the setting as it is played in. Just because it receives more face time does not make it more important. The alien races are also a huge part of the charm. They juxtapose humanity and add depth the setting otherwise lacks.

As for only questions a "true" 40k fan would know. Whatever a "true" 40k fan might even be - my bet is on obscure knowledge. Not something that is a part of the centerpiece like bits from the Novel series that virtually every Space Marine player gushes over.

 Hanskrampf wrote:
As all Marines are perfect warriors and immune to chaos, they could have easily stopped the Horus Heresy. I mean, it was just Horus, a single small man with no special abilities.

In fact, quite the opposite is true. The First Legions (The Dark Angels) big secret is the fact some of them fell to chaos (now they are coming to kill me...) and why do you think there is an army called CHAOS SPACE MARINES. The Horus Heresy was, at its heart, traitor space marine legions (led by Horus, primarch of the Sons of Horus (now called the Black Legion)) vs. the loyal ones. The first legion to fall to chaos was, I think but correct me if I'm wrong, the World Bearers and the change of all the traitor legions were led by their primarchs, who had been corrupted when the Chaos Gods had scattered them across the Universe.

All space marines are pretty much blindly devoted to their primarch so Horus was backed by his entire legion, and other legions joined him. In fact, I think more fell to chaos then were loyal and it was only the actions of the Emperor Himself that saved the Imperium.

There's actually an even split between Traitor and Loyalist Legions, but, to address the OP, Space Marines existed before the Horus Heresy, as they were the main forces deployed in the Great Crusade (which ended in the Heresy) and the primary combatants of the Heresy itself.

The_Grey_Knight wrote:

 Hanskrampf wrote:
As all Marines are perfect warriors and immune to chaos, they could have easily stopped the Horus Heresy. I mean, it was just Horus, a single small man with no special abilities.

In fact, quite the opposite is true. The First Legions (The Dark Angels) big secret is the fact some of them fell to chaos (now they are coming to kill me...) and why do you think there is an army called CHAOS SPACE MARINES. The Horus Heresy was, at its heart, traitor space marine legions (led by Horus, primarch of the Sons of Horus (now called the Black Legion)) vs. the loyal ones. The first legion to fall to chaos was, I think but correct me if I'm wrong, the World Bearers and the change of all the traitor legions were led by their primarchs, who had been corrupted when the Chaos Gods had scattered them across the Universe.

All space marines are pretty much blindly devoted to their primarch so Horus was backed by his entire legion, and other legions joined him. In fact, I think more fell to chaos then were loyal and it was only the actions of the Emperor Himself that saved the Imperium.

He was being sarcastic.

The_Grey_Knight wrote:

 Hanskrampf wrote:
As all Marines are perfect warriors and immune to chaos, they could have easily stopped the Horus Heresy. I mean, it was just Horus, a single small man with no special abilities.

In fact, quite the opposite is true. The First Legions (The Dark Angels) big secret is the fact some of them fell to chaos (now they are coming to kill me...) and why do you think there is an army called CHAOS SPACE MARINES. The Horus Heresy was, at its heart, traitor space marine legions (led by Horus, primarch of the Sons of Horus (now called the Black Legion)) vs. the loyal ones. The first legion to fall to chaos was, I think but correct me if I'm wrong, the World Bearers and the change of all the traitor legions were led by their primarchs, who had been corrupted when the Chaos Gods had scattered them across the Universe.

All space marines are pretty much blindly devoted to their primarch so Horus was backed by his entire legion, and other legions joined him. In fact, I think more fell to chaos then were loyal and it was only the actions of the Emperor Himself that saved the Imperium.

Somebod doesn't understand sarcasm.

In response to OP:
There are many (arguably) most important time periods in human history. The Horus Heresy is one of them, though I'd argue that the Reign of Blood is the true most important moment, as it is what set the IoM on the downward spiral that it is in during M41. Another most important time period would be the Forging, as this is the time period in which the Imperium of Man as we know it today was actually conquered (you can't conquer the galaxy in 200 years, it's simply impossible), and hundreds of thousands of worlds were brought into the fold.

I dont think its a troll, as much as a language barrier issue. THe lovely marines could be referring either to the BA or the EC. based on the context of the question im guessing it was the BA. and the question might be asking why the BA didnt intervene at the battle of Terra as much or why they didn't have a larger part in the overall heresy.

I am taking a lot of leaps here, as I would hate to have the community jump to vilifying the OP as a troll if this is simply a language issue.

if thsi is your question information can be found here.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Blood_Angels

Referring to OP here--It's spelled Heresy. H-E-R-E-S-Y.

 EngulfedObject wrote:
Lovely Marines? Sounds like something from 1d4chan. Also, a TRUE 40k fan would get the name of "the most important event in 40k/30k lore" right.

I don't see why. After all, plenty of contributors to these boards seem to think that Marines' spiritual wellbeing is looked after by a funny little man with a bowler hat and toothbrush moustache, and that an important branch of Imperial society spends their time dealing cosmetics to aliens.

From a thematic point of view, the Heresy is the turning point - the fall of Humanity's greatest champion, the point where the promise of humankind's rise from the ashes collapsed into a struggle for mere survival. It's not quite foundational to 40k as a whole, but almost as soon as the setting began to get fleshed out, the Heresy is the important feature. The others mentioned only turned up a decade later. In-universe, they're important, but the Orks and Eldar were well-established without any mention of the War in Heaven.

If the "Lovely Marines" are a 1D4chan thing, it's a really obscure one, and Google isn't helping.

 Psienesis wrote:
There's actually an even split between Traitor and Loyalist Legions, but, to address the OP, Space Marines existed before the Horus Heresy, as they were the main forces deployed in the Great Crusade (which ended in the Heresy) and the primary combatants of the Heresy itself.

It depends on what the two 'missing' legions loyalties were, as their is 9 recorded traitor legions and it also depends on whether the Alpha Legion is still loyal.

Pretty Marines, perhaps?

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
If the "Lovely Marines" are a 1D4chan thing, it's a really obscure one, and Google isn't helping.

I don't think the Lovely Marines are a 1d4chan thing, but the Pretty Marines sure are.

AndrewGPaul wrote:

 EngulfedObject wrote:
Lovely Marines? Sounds like something from 1d4chan. Also, a TRUE 40k fan would get the name of "the most important event in 40k/30k lore" right.

I don't see why. After all, plenty of contributors to these boards seem to think that Marines' spiritual wellbeing is looked after by a funny little man with a bowler hat and toothbrush moustache, and that an important branch of Imperial society spends their time dealing cosmetics to aliens.

From a thematic point of view, the Heresy is the turning point - the fall of Humanity's greatest champion, the point where the promise of humankind's rise from the ashes collapsed into a struggle for mere survival. It's not quite foundational to 40k as a whole, but almost as soon as the setting began to get fleshed out, the Heresy is the important feature. The others mentioned only turned up a decade later. In-universe, they're important, but the Orks and Eldar were well-established without any mention of the War in Heaven.

If the "Lovely Marines" are a 1D4chan thing, it's a really obscure one, and Google isn't helping.

Eh, actually that's the Reign of Blood that you're thinking of. In fact, after the Horus Heresy, the Imperium had a three-thousand-year Golden Age that saw them conquer 90% of the Galaxy (which they hadn't had sufficient time to do prior to the Heresy).

The_Grey_Knight wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
There's actually an even split between Traitor and Loyalist Legions, but, to address the OP, Space Marines existed before the Horus Heresy, as they were the main forces deployed in the Great Crusade (which ended in the Heresy) and the primary combatants of the Heresy itself.

It depends on what the two 'missing' legions loyalties were, as their is 9 recorded traitor legions and it also depends on whether the Alpha Legion is still loyal.

The Lost and the Purged played no part in the Heresy so, no, it doesn't really matter.

Age of Apostasy was also pretty huge in the shaping of the current Imperium. If I remember correctly it was the scism that resulted in the Sisters of Battle for the Ecclesiarchy.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Age of Apostasy was also pretty huge in the shaping of the current Imperium. If I remember correctly it was the scism that resulted in the Sisters of Battle for the Ecclesiarchy.

It's also 70% of the reason that the Imperium is currently on the downward spiral its currently on - for several thousand years, the steady trial of decay can be traced back to the Age of Apostasy. Post-Scouring, the Imperium was steadily making a comeback, and, in the Age of Forging, even made huge leaps forward in technology due to discovering STCs upon the hundreds of thousands of worlds that they conquered (this was when the Imperium actually became the dominant force in the Galaxy; prior to this, alien foes they ahd thought long since extinguished were still threatening thousands of planets). The 40k Imperium we all know and love/hate, is only like it is right now because of Goge Vandire; he took a relatively stable Empire and destabilized it in the worst possible manner; stopping the Astra Militarum from actually doing its job, slaughtering entire planets on a whim, wasting entire Battlefleets, causing significant jumps in revolt frequencies, and overall making the already Byzantine beuracracy of the Imperium a tangled morass of confused and conflicting orders and requisitions. If it weren't for the Mechanicum and [arguably] the Space Marines, the Imperium of Man would have collapsed entire as a result of the Age of Apostasy, and, even then, the Age of Apostasy set in motion the current decaying state of technology in the IoM, as well as the fact of slowly losing ground to alien foes.

Dark age tech humans vs eldar, orks etc, I want to know how humanity managed to beat the eldar at the height of its power, or even how it competed.

Next, at what point did humanity actually start to fall, the circumstances of the fall and just exactly how it happened, was it instant or a massively slow decline.

Humanity didn't beat or compete with the Eldar during the DAoT. The Eldar simply ignored the lower species activities whilst they were "entertaining" themselves.

Mellow wrote:
Humanity didn't beat or compete with the Eldar during the DAoT. The Eldar simply ignored the lower species activities whilst they were "entertaining" themselves.

It's jn the main rulebook and has been several times, humans beat eldar, also look at the galaxy map, humans are everywhere, would you let an enemy surround your entire empire and take the whole galaxy, absolutely not, Eldar had exodite and maiden worlds all over, but a tiny fraction of the power daot humans had, so the question is, how, or why would the eldar let the humans take so much territory from them (cron book states eldar had control of the galaxy post Necrons), the simple answer is they couldn't stop them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
"Humanity began encountering other alien races, such as the Orks and Eldar, and clashed with both civilizations during this period."

"With mankind at the height of its power the threat of aliens was trivial and eventually non-aggression pacts were signed with many of the alien races."

So it's outright stated that "eldar" and "orks" were a trivial threat, hence my curiosity about just how advanced they were.

Humanity was far more advanced than now, but I could see trivial just being poor wording by GW. While they may have clashed occasionally it's likely the Eldar simply saw no reason to fight another race when they could use their time to engage in pleasurable activities.

Mellow wrote:
Humanity didn't beat or compete with the Eldar during the DAoT. The Eldar simply ignored the lower species activities whilst they were "entertaining" themselves.

This is true during the DAoT humanity never fought the Eldar Empire. As revealed in Asurmen: Hand of Asuryan the Eldar empire was unassailable and on the whole simply didn’t care what the barbaric simpletons did. Whilst humanity fought tooth and nail to carve a place for themselves among the stars the Eldar entertained themselves with simple things like extreme sports that involved surfing solar flares.

It's jn the main rulebook and has been several times, humans beat eldar, also look at the galaxy map, humans are everywhere, would you let an enemy surround your entire empire and take the whole galaxy, absolutely not, Eldar had exodite and maiden worlds all over, but a tiny fraction of the power daot humans had, so the question is, how, or why would the eldar let the humans take so much territory from them (cron book states eldar had control of the galaxy post Necrons), the simple answer is they couldn't stop them.

The thing is that humanity during the DAoT was not a unified whole rather a collection of petty Empires and civilisations whose cultures and technology deviated greatly from each other. In fact the Horus Heresy introduces the idea that many of the first human colonialists adopted a more restrained and peaceful approach (instead of going in all guns blazing) when encountering other species compared to the mass genocides that took place during the Great Crusade and actually received help and guidance from the Eldar.

Looking at the map really doesn’t mean much when the Eldar Empire has access to a still intact galaxy spanning Webway. The Eldar really didn’t need to spread themselves across the map in the same way as the Imperium does, if they wanted to take a relaxing vacation on one of their worlds on the other side of the Galaxy they could simply walk there. As for allowing themselves to be surrounded and allowing so much territory to be taken from them the truth is that the planets that where being fought over simply were of no interest to the Eldar, imagine if you will you’re an Eldar; you can create your own paradise world that is designed exactly the way you want it so why would you waste your time fighting some primitives over some mud ball that has no real importance or value. Besides that the Eldar really didn’t go around fighting and killing others races just because they could; take a look at the Cabal from the Heresy series it may be lead by the Eldar but it includes a vast number of different xeno species, the implication being that the Eldar during their rule had many stable/friendly relations with a number of different races. You could think of the Eldar Empire as a galaxy spanning feudal system with the Eldar at the top as the undisputed rulers and a vast number of smaller Empires, Kingdoms and domains owing faulty to their Eldar liege lords, all of them being allowed to exists within the borders of the Empire as vessel states. And there's also the fact that the Eldar really couldn’t have cared less if these lesser beings fought among themselves as long as they didn’t do anything to upset their rightful alien overlords.

"Humanity began encountering other alien races, such as the Orks and Eldar, and clashed with both civilizations during this period."

"With mankind at the height of its power the threat of aliens was trivial and eventually non-aggression pacts were signed with many of the alien races."

So it's outright stated that "eldar" and "orks" were a trivial threat, hence my curiosity about just how advanced they were.

During this time the Eldar that would become known as the Exodites would end up annoying the Eldar populace so much with their preaching and doom mongering that entire worlds (maiden worlds) where created for them far away from the heart of Eldar civilisation. There they could practice their bizarre beliefs without disturbing anyone. These Exodites left behind everything and ventured into the hostile universe where they found themselves surrounded by threats on all sides and with only the most basic and rudimentary (by Eldar standards) tech to defend themselves with. It was these Eldar that the DAoT humans fought with not the Empire.

Brother-Redemptor wrote:

Mellow wrote:
Humanity didn't beat or compete with the Eldar during the DAoT. The Eldar simply ignored the lower species activities whilst they were "entertaining" themselves.

This is true during the DAoT humanity never fought the Eldar Empire. As revealed in Asurmen: Hand of Asuryan the Eldar empire was unassailable and on the whole simply didn’t care what the barbaric simpletons did. Whilst humanity fought tooth and nail to carve a place for themselves among the stars the Eldar entertained themselves with simple things like extreme sports that involved surfing solar flares.

It's jn the main rulebook and has been several times, humans beat eldar, also look at the galaxy map, humans are everywhere, would you let an enemy surround your entire empire and take the whole galaxy, absolutely not, Eldar had exodite and maiden worlds all over, but a tiny fraction of the power daot humans had, so the question is, how, or why would the eldar let the humans take so much territory from them (cron book states eldar had control of the galaxy post Necrons), the simple answer is they couldn't stop them.

The thing is that humanity during the DAoT was not a unified whole rather a collection of petty Empires and civilisations whose cultures and technology deviated greatly from each other. In fact the Horus Heresy introduces the idea that many of the first human colonialists adopted a more restrained and peaceful approach (instead of going in all guns blazing) when encountering other species compared to the mass genocides that took place during the Great Crusade and actually received help and guidance from the Eldar.

Looking at the map really doesn’t mean much when the Eldar Empire has access to a still intact galaxy spanning Webway. The Eldar really didn’t need to spread themselves across the map in the same way as the Imperium does, if they wanted to take a relaxing vacation on one of their worlds on the other side of the Galaxy they could simply walk there. As for allowing themselves to be surrounded and allowing so much territory to be taken from them the truth is that the planets that where being fought over simply were of no interest to the Eldar, imagine if you will you’re an Eldar; you can create your own paradise world that is designed exactly the way you want it so why would you waste your time fighting some primitives over some mud ball that has no real importance or value. Besides that the Eldar really didn’t go around fighting and killing others races just because they could; take a look at the Cabal from the Heresy series it may be lead by the Eldar but it includes a vast number of different xeno species, the implication being that the Eldar during their rule had many stable/friendly relations with a number of different races. You could think of the Eldar Empire as a galaxy spanning feudal system with the Eldar at the top as the undisputed rulers and a vast number of smaller Empires, Kingdoms and domains owing faulty to their Eldar liege lords, all of them being allowed to exists within the borders of the Empire as vessel states. And there's also the fact that the Eldar really couldn’t have cared less if these lesser beings fought among themselves as long as they didn’t do anything to upset their rightful alien overlords.

"Humanity began encountering other alien races, such as the Orks and Eldar, and clashed with both civilizations during this period."

"With mankind at the height of its power the threat of aliens was trivial and eventually non-aggression pacts were signed with many of the alien races."

So it's outright stated that "eldar" and "orks" were a trivial threat, hence my curiosity about just how advanced they were.

During this time the Eldar that would become known as the Exodites would end up annoying the Eldar populace so much with their preaching and doom mongering that entire worlds (maiden worlds) where created for them far away from the heart of Eldar civilisation. There they could practice their bizarre beliefs without disturbing anyone. These Exodites left behind everything and ventured into the hostile universe where they found themselves surrounded by threats on all sides and with only the most basic and rudimentary (by Eldar standards) tech to defend themselves with. It was these Eldar that the DAoT humans fought with not the Empire.

Thanks for the reply, I've searched as much as I can and cannot find anything that supports what's your saying, do you have a source that it was only the exodites that daot humans fought?

Also if hand of asuyan has some info on daot humans I'll have to pick it up, can you give a page number so I know what to look for, cheers

The Lovely Marines?

Armed with only a few of his favorite things, Chapter Master Va-Unn Trapp strides gloriously forth from the rugged mountains of his beloved planet Osterike and smites the foes of Humanity with his feared battle cry of "So Long, Farewell, Auf Wiedersehen, Goodbye!"