Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hello there people. So I was wondering which one of the fan-based point system was the best in your opinion, and why. I haven't played AoS yet (my models were waiting to be painted while I was doing my KDK army), and now that they are ready, I'm wondering which point system to use. What your opinion ?

My opinion is that most of the point systems are all very similar so picking one is as good as picking another.

If you prefer systems that the tournament community has embraced, that largely seems to be SDK.

Wounds as a balancing system is horrible IMO because a 1 wound swordmaster is vastly superior to a 1 wound elf spear, but would count the same in a wound system.

I wrote Azyr and am of course partial to that because I prefer simpler systems where list building is a minimum and where general balance is achieved (i moved away from precision balancing as I found several issues with it from a personal standpoint)

I'd say read through them and choose what is being used near you. They all have their merit and have gone through a lot of testing and work and mostly will get you where you want to go regardless of what you choose.

My favourite games have all been without restriction and using the sudden death rule.I actually think it's a lot cleverer than people give it credit for.

I also like playing a model and wound cap..usually 60 models/100 wounds.This method works very well too.

I've got a buddy who really needs to play with points so we use the UK Indy Pool Choice(or Mo Comp) and it's pretty good.Annoying that units can only be bought in certain sized blocks tho.

I would go with the PPC. It is very well balanced and I haven't had a single game that wasn't very close with it. PPC also seems like the one system that has the largest following here on dakka. I would also recommend you do some kind of mission when playing. Killpoints kinda always ends up in a scrum in the middle.

Sounds like something you need to discuss with those you play. The couple I've looked at have had comp rules as well as points, and that is a downer for me personally. Will others be more bothered by comp or points.

So far the only games we've played have involved me coming up with a scenario and us slinging down more or less what we have. The first game I didn't know what my opponent had beyond Skaven, so just guessed by saying put it all down after seeing his collection and it worked out OK for a first game. The last game a 3rd player didn't turn up and I had to make a scenario on the fly, to balance him only having half the army I was expecting to face (and make for something interesting) I just gave my opponent unlimited casualties returning as reinforcements coming out the sewers as he tried to stop my beefier force getting across the map. That worked really well (scrum in the middle would have been suicide for me).

As everyone does I emphasize scenarios, even simple objective games. I've found the games get very tactical in the later stages in objective matches and the retreat mechanic, while another unit holds up the enemy, can be a game changer.

For comp, I still like eyeballing it, but I also enjoy putting together armies with the pool choices/UK system. I think the 20 pool choices plus 10 sideboard is my favourite system for tournament-style playing, but I probably won't ever play in a tournament myself.

I've played a mix of neat AoS, wounds cap, and GW school league rules for my games so far. I like the simplicity of SDK and Warscroll Builder and will likely use it as a "ready reckoner" at times.

Although SDK fails to acknowledge you can have multiple banners in a unit, and this affects units with multiple banner options (Like Night Goblins where I would want to take one of each).

I have downloaded PPC but don't like that it makes rules changes (specifically to the summoning rules).

Honesty, at first I really hated not having established points. Then I remember in other game systems with points I always played the same point optimized lists over and over. I am really liking all the different systems and ways to calculate forces. It has really kept games and lists new and exciting. Pool choices, model count, wound count and points values all give vastly different list variations.

 Bottle wrote:
I have downloaded PPC but don't like that it makes rules changes (specifically to the summoning rules).

Yeah, any points system that amends the rules is a no-go for me.

Have yet to give serious consideration to any points-based system though - scenarios with the vanilla rules work just fine.
If you're using the terrain rules and any of the time of war rulesets, there's so much stuff going on that a finely balanced game is the least of your concerns.

They're ALL garbage! Stick to the AoS game as designed; you'll be better off and better for it.

I've really been enjoying SDK recently. The games I have been playing with it have been really fun and Tabletopminis (a popular YouTube channel for AoS) have also adopted it and their reports are much better for it.

The only thing I am trying to figure out is how to cost summoning with my undead. The undead units are often very expensive in SDK so I've been playing that slain units can be resurrected by a Death Wizard, but no other units can be summoned in.

I would love to have some discussion on it, but I can't find anywhere on the internet that has an active discussion on SDK lol.

RoperPG wrote:

 Bottle wrote:
I have downloaded PPC but don't like that it makes rules changes (specifically to the summoning rules).

Yeah, any points system that amends the rules is a no-go for me.

Have yet to give serious consideration to any points-based system though - scenarios with the vanilla rules work just fine.
If you're using the terrain rules and any of the time of war rulesets, there's so much stuff going on that a finely balanced game is the least of your concerns.

This.

I found that wounds and some limits to heros and monsters work (we go 1 hero rounded up and 1 monster/war machine rounded down per 30 wounds), it's also handy to note that a game takes around an hour per 25 wounds. In small games (less than 40 wounds) things like greater daemons mess the balance around, but otherwise the power differences between wounds evens out to negligible (or at least less than the difference due to skill or luck).

Finally; Kriswall's interpretation of summoning rules here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/662941.page makes AoS much more fair and balanced.

 DarkBlack wrote:

RoperPG wrote:

 Bottle wrote:
I have downloaded PPC but don't like that it makes rules changes (specifically to the summoning rules).

Yeah, any points system that amends the rules is a no-go for me.

Finally; Kriswall's interpretation of summoning rules here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/662941.page makes AoS much more fair and balanced.

Just signed in for the first time in many years to point out :

Summoning is rarely more effective than buffing an elite unit instead. It is not as powerful as most players think, since it is a totally new idea for them. There is always a few ways to exploit RAW, but summoning itself isn't at all overpowered.

Kriswall's interpretation, suggesting players are not able to re-summon dead units, essentially means there is no point in summoning at all, as the rules for summoning limit how close you can place a summoned unit. They have to be summoned and positioned properly at least a turn before they are needed, tactically speaking. Apart from his interpretation of that one detail, the rest seems alright. It is worth browsing that thread to see some people's views if you are curious.

Buffs to units are game changers in comparison with summoning, and suggesting you can't raise dead units means you are gimping yourself if you decide to reserve and summon, as opposed to full deployment and buffing every turn instead.

But play how you like of course, just don't let the knee jerk reactions of some people stop you from trying out AOS as it was meant to be played.

Point system? No idea how to compensate for say a 10 wound single mini vs 10 minis with a single wound. It's been said (not familiar with names sorry) that the 10 wound mini would slaughter the 10 one wound minis.

So how about a pool of dice. Each mini gets one die. So the 10 wound mini would get one die, and the 10 one wound minis get 10 dice. The dice would be RE-ROLL Dice.

Would this help balance it out a bit? The 10 weaker minis get 10 re-rolls while the 10 wound mini gets one re-roll. So maybe they are more equal now?

Just an idea, haven't played much so no idea if it would work or not.

 Hollo wrote:

 DarkBlack wrote:

RoperPG wrote:

 Bottle wrote:
I have downloaded PPC but don't like that it makes rules changes (specifically to the summoning rules).

Yeah, any points system that amends the rules is a no-go for me.

Finally; Kriswall's interpretation of summoning rules here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/662941.page makes AoS much more fair and balanced.

Just signed in for the first time in many years to point out :

Summoning is rarely more effective than buffing an elite unit instead. It is not as powerful as most players think, since it is a totally new idea for them. There is always a few ways to exploit RAW, but summoning itself isn't at all overpowered.

Kriswall's interpretation, suggesting players are not able to re-summon dead units, essentially means there is no point in summoning at all, as the rules for summoning limit how close you can place a summoned unit. They have to be summoned and positioned properly at least a turn before they are needed, tactically speaking. Apart from his interpretation of that one detail, the rest seems alright. It is worth browsing that thread to see some people's views if you are curious.

Buffs to units are game changers in comparison with summoning, and suggesting you can't raise dead units means you are gimping yourself if you decide to reserve and summon, as opposed to full deployment and buffing every turn instead.

But play how you like of course, just don't let the knee jerk reactions of some people stop you from trying out AOS as it was meant to be played.

Summoning can be used like any other ability the brings reserves onto the table (yes this goes for the thing the Chaos Lord does too). Doesn't sound good enough? How good do you want it to be, it's a spell that casts on less than 7 most of the time (with the exception of monsters, which add an effectively negligible number of "extra" models). It is not hard to get pink horrors in on a 2!

Unless your buff adds as many extra wounds as a unit can do or saves the equivalent of a unit's worth of models (in the one turn that it lasts) it is not better and may I remind you it is not much harder to cast (if at all). Where you do get free units from summoning (40k) it requires that you devote the bulk of your magic phase to get ONE unit.

Considering that you must choose your army before the game (first page under "The Armies") you cannot resummon dead units indefinitely, because that is effectively having an infinite amount of those units (the exception being that you can agree to infinite models with your opponent or choose more units than you have models for). Remember that some undead and most daemon units have abilities (usually requiring a banner) that add and/or return models to those units already.

Garbage, maybe. We are still playtesting in our group and went for the SDK.

It's up to your environment honestly.

If you like one system but no one you know wants to use it, you might as well adapt.