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So here's the thought:

From my understanding, the name Astartes was an abuse of latin that the authors could have simply thought meant 'star', but in reality, point more to the goddess Astarte aka Ishtar. Well, I think this can still be shoehorned, and quite well in justifying the name for this most popular branch of the Imperium 'Adeptus Astartes'.

Some points:
1. We know the Emperor was born sometime around 8,000 BC, so, we also know he lived during the time of the person Astarte/Ishtar may have been based off of.
2. He may have been romantically involved perhaps at one time, perhaps to Ishtar - who is the tragic love of his life and whom perhaps died in some warhammer dark grim way....
3. The Emperor also during the time, was rebuilding an ancient structure to unite humanity by exerting his will onto them (Ahem tower of Babel, making him Nimrod, but also equated to Gilgamesh, and patron deities of the pagan spheres - which is a separate theory of equivocating them all outside of this thread).
4. Something went wrong and his project suffered extreme setbacks, as well as his Ishtar was sacrificed/killed during this time to save/prevent this from happening. She was with child, his first born.
5. Much much later in time, 30 some thousand years, his time to enact his galactic plan had come and institute his will to unite humanity once more - by subjugating it, and finding the pieces to restore the ancient device back on terra, (until ullinor, then he had the last piece and headed back to terra). With how regarded the creation of legions, he, out of a rare moment of being sentimental, named them in relation to this once failed plan to have descendants with Astarte (Ishtar) - which is where Astartes is really a reference & synthesis of - from the mother they would have been from.


Oh and on a separate thought I had:

the device, the way the Emperor was intending on using it, would guide (control) the will of all of humanity into slavery.
He is in opposition to Yahweh (hence the tower of Babel reference), and angled in every way to unhinge Gods rule, replacing God with himself by removing faith.
This is sort of a fun irony in many ways, as it plays on the most basic of evident things - we can never know everything and convey it without revoking ones liberty at the same time. A good show of the Emperors behavior confirming this would be in First Heretic, where he forces an entire legion to bend their knee by use of psychic ability - not even giving them an opportunity. That's.... flat out tyrannical, regardless of oaths.

I know, its a bit heady.

Anyway, thoughts?

I think you're right that someone just liked the name, the rule of cool took over and few questions were asked.

Much like those horrid bearded chaps in the middle east calling themselves ISIS and then reconning it when they realised they were named after a Goddess.

They likely saw that Astartes was a goddess of war and thought - 'awesome! let's use it', failing to read the next line to see she was also the goddess of fertility and sexuality.


Now including those aspects? THAT would make 40K more interesting. Space Marines exploring their sexuality as they fertilise worlds in the name of the Emperor

- reading that was probably as difficult as writing it.

 Wulfmar wrote:
I think you're right that someone just liked the name, the rule of cool took over and few questions were asked.

Much like those horrid bearded chaps in the middle east calling themselves ISIS and then reconning it when they realised they were named after a Goddess.

They likely saw that Astartes was a goddess of war and thought - 'awesome! let's use it', failing to read the next line to see she was also the goddess of fertility and sexuality.


Now including those aspects? THAT would make 40K more interesting. Space Marines exploring their sexuality as they fertilise worlds in the name of the Emperor

- reading that was probably as difficult as writing it.

Lol... Well that would give 'For the Emperor' a whole new level.

Heh I dare anyone to say that to a girl as a pickup line.....


On a separate note, really the matter of fertility makes sense in the context of the theory, as the Emperor would essentially claim the ultimate manner of seeding.... thus making him the most fertile male in the galaxy; his seed is being implanted at a grand scale........ in dudes.

uhg.

Weird, but I like it. The Emperor just struck me as the triumphant Vandal Savage...and he just invented his own creation myth, because otherwise...he is just really incompetent.

-STS

 kveldulf wrote:

 Wulfmar wrote:
I think you're right that someone just liked the name, the rule of cool took over and few questions were asked.

Much like those horrid bearded chaps in the middle east calling themselves ISIS and then reconning it when they realised they were named after a Goddess.

They likely saw that Astartes was a goddess of war and thought - 'awesome! let's use it', failing to read the next line to see she was also the goddess of fertility and sexuality.


Now including those aspects? THAT would make 40K more interesting. Space Marines exploring their sexuality as they fertilise worlds in the name of the Emperor

- reading that was probably as difficult as writing it.

Lol... Well that would give 'For the Emperor' a whole new level.

Heh I dare anyone to say that to a girl as a pickup line.....

Spoilered for slightly-NSFW image....

 kveldulf wrote:
So here's the thought:

From my understanding, the name Astartes was an abuse of latin that the authors could have simply thought meant 'star', but in reality, point more to the goddess Astarte aka Ishtar. Well, I think this can still be shoehorned, and quite well in justifying the name for this most popular branch of the Imperium 'Adeptus Astartes'.

Some points:
1. We know the Emperor was born sometime around 8,000 BC, so, we also know he lived during the time of the person Astarte/Ishtar may have been based off of.
2. He may have been romantically involved perhaps at one time, perhaps to Ishtar - who is the tragic love of his life and whom perhaps died in some warhammer dark grim way....
3. The Emperor also during the time, was rebuilding an ancient structure to unite humanity by exerting his will onto them (Ahem tower of Babel, making him Nimrod, but also equated to Gilgamesh, and patron deities of the pagan spheres - which is a separate theory of equivocating them all outside of this thread).
4. Something went wrong and his project suffered extreme setbacks, as well as his Ishtar was sacrificed/killed during this time to save/prevent this from happening. She was with child, his first born.
5. Much much later in time, 30 some thousand years, his time to enact his galactic plan had come and institute his will to unite humanity once more - by subjugating it, and finding the pieces to restore the ancient device back on terra, (until ullinor, then he had the last piece and headed back to terra). With how regarded the creation of legions, he, out of a rare moment of being sentimental, named them in relation to this once failed plan to have descendants with Astarte (Ishtar) - which is where Astartes is really a reference & synthesis of - from the mother they would have been from.


Oh and on a separate thought I had:

the device, the way the Emperor was intending on using it, would guide (control) the will of all of humanity into slavery.
He is in opposition to Yahweh (hence the tower of Babel reference), and angled in every way to unhinge Gods rule, replacing God with himself by removing faith.
This is sort of a fun irony in many ways, as it plays on the most basic of evident things - we can never know everything and convey it without revoking ones liberty at the same time. A good show of the Emperors behavior confirming this would be in First Heretic, where he forces an entire legion to bend their knee by use of psychic ability - not even giving them an opportunity. That's.... flat out tyrannical, regardless of oaths.

I know, its a bit heady.

Anyway, thoughts?

Ishtar? As in the Eldar god Isha? As in the Emperor and Isha had a relationship? As in the Eldar god Isha is captured in the warp, wispering things to the Emperor? As in Isha telling the Emperor how chaos works and what to do about it? As in the Eldar god actually being the bride of the Emperor?
Why have I never heard of this theory before? It is the single biggest concpiracy I've heard of in 40k and I utterly love the idea.

EDIT: The Emperor is really on a quest to rescue his damsel in distress.

Nerak wrote:


Ishtar? As in the Eldar god Isha? As in the Emperor and Isha had a relationship? As in the Eldar god Isha is captured in the warp, wispering things to the Emperor? As in Isha telling the Emperor how chaos works and what to do about it? As in the Eldar god actually being the bride of the Emperor?
Why have I never heard of this theory before? It is the single biggest concpiracy I've heard of in 40k and I utterly love the idea.

EDIT: The Emperor is really on a quest to rescue his damsel in distress.

I wasn't thinking of the eldar goddess Isha, rather the bablyonian Ishtar who also went by Astarte. Though, it would be a fun spin to make her out to be a marooned eldar witch on earth.... that the Emperor loved. Heh, and it was such a bad breakup that it's the real inspiration for xenophobia that the Emperor exerted. ;P (on top of Old Night).

Out of all the earth's inhabitants, she an eldar, would have been the only one to truly know what the Emperor was about to with the device : mind control all of humanity.

Ishtar was the Babylonian version of the very-popular Sumerian goddess Inanna, the Goddess of Passion, in both Love and War.

 kveldulf wrote:
On a separate note, really the matter of fertility makes sense in the context of the theory, as the Emperor would essentially claim the ultimate manner of seeding.... thus making him the most fertile male in the galaxy; his seed is being implanted at a grand scale........ in dudes.

Quite a few ancient civilizations would see that as the ultimate triumph of man over nature and everything. Real men bonded with real men whom they did politics or warfare with. Women were needed for getting an heir and a spare, nothing more.

 Psienesis wrote:
Ishtar was the Babylonian version of the very-popular Sumerian goddess Inanna, the Goddess of Passion, in both Love and War.

Who would therefore be a direct analogue to Slaanesh.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Ishtar was the Babylonian version of the very-popular Sumerian goddess Inanna, the Goddess of Passion, in both Love and War.

Who would therefore be a direct analogue to Slaanesh.

Lol. That would be amusing an amusing twist - the Emperor, once reunited with his lost love, whom after many millennia - changed into the overly rational person we all know him to be - turns around and sacrifices her to the warp to destroy the Eldar thus making way for his Imperium. But, after this is done, there's the unintentional consequence that a new chaos god would be born - Slaanesh.

Or perhaps, the Emperor knew it would happen but just had another grandiose plan to skirt around it - at the cost of even more numbers.... ahem, people.

That seems pretty consistent with what we know of the Emperor.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Ishtar was the Babylonian version of the very-popular Sumerian goddess Inanna, the Goddess of Passion, in both Love and War.

Who would therefore be a direct analogue to Slaanesh.

She's actually one of the Elder Gods of Order. Distant and uncaring as they are, primordial and strange, above the concerns of the Young Gods and their Great Game.

There is so much fluff that contradicts this that it isn't even funny.

Fluff involving Inanna? In 40k? Unlikely.

 Psienesis wrote:
Fluff involving Inanna? In 40k? Unlikely.

No, fluff involving the Emperor. For instance, the fact that he was building the Imperial Webway when he went back home, not creating a secret mind control device.

It could be two things. There's also the fact that he was (at the time of the GC) almost 40,000 years old. He got around... the Sensei are the children he begat throughout history.

 dusara217 wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Fluff involving Inanna? In 40k? Unlikely.

No, fluff involving the Emperor. For instance, the fact that he was building the Imperial Webway when he went back home, not creating a secret mind control device.

Yes, the webway device/golden throne was what I was inferring. And, he wasn't building the webway device, he was repairing it. I took this and ran with it.


After reading parts of the HH, I can't help but think the Emperor wants to exert his will more exclusively across the galaxy.

If you really think he's beyond mind controlling to accomplish his aims, then read the First Heretic. He does it to practically to an entire legion by making them all bend their knee. Again, I took this and ran with it.


My theory may be conjecture, but to make clear, it is mostly fan-fiction. So by all means, point out the fluff that may contradict my idea. Even then, surely glossing over bad fluff, or solving incomplete fluff is more agreeable than keeping it on the pedestal without even speculating or inventing?

 kveldulf wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Fluff involving Inanna? In 40k? Unlikely.

No, fluff involving the Emperor. For instance, the fact that he was building the Imperial Webway when he went back home, not creating a secret mind control device.

Yes, the webway device/golden throne was what I was inferring. And, he wasn't building the webway device, he was repairing it. I took this and ran with it.


After reading parts of the HH, I can't help but think the Emperor wants to exert his will more exclusively across the galaxy.

If you really think he's beyond mind controlling to accomplish his aims, then read the First Heretic. He does it to practically to an entire legion by making them all bend their knee. Again, I took this and ran with it.


My theory may be conjecture, but to make clear, it is mostly fan-fiction. So by all means, point out the fluff that may contradict my idea. Even then, surely glossing over bad fluff, or solving incomplete fluff is more agreeable than keeping it on the pedestal without even speculating or inventing?

Oh, I totally get that it's pure speculation, it's just that it seems contradictory to the Emperor's ultimate goal of making humanity, well, better. Mind-controlling them sort of contradicts that by denying them the capability to better themselves. Also, he was jury-rigging the Eldar Webway into the Imperial Webway, but, that's besides the point.

 dusara217 wrote:

 kveldulf wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Fluff involving Inanna? In 40k? Unlikely.

No, fluff involving the Emperor. For instance, the fact that he was building the Imperial Webway when he went back home, not creating a secret mind control device.

Yes, the webway device/golden throne was what I was inferring. And, he wasn't building the webway device, he was repairing it. I took this and ran with it.


After reading parts of the HH, I can't help but think the Emperor wants to exert his will more exclusively across the galaxy.

If you really think he's beyond mind controlling to accomplish his aims, then read the First Heretic. He does it to practically to an entire legion by making them all bend their knee. Again, I took this and ran with it.


My theory may be conjecture, but to make clear, it is mostly fan-fiction. So by all means, point out the fluff that may contradict my idea. Even then, surely glossing over bad fluff, or solving incomplete fluff is more agreeable than keeping it on the pedestal without even speculating or inventing?

Oh, I totally get that it's pure speculation, it's just that it seems contradictory to the Emperor's ultimate goal of making humanity, well, better. Mind-controlling them sort of contradicts that by denying them the capability to better themselves. Also, he was jury-rigging the Eldar Webway into the Imperial Webway, but, that's besides the point.

I think that 'bettering humanity' could very well go into tyranny. He's definitely renown for championing the end justifies the means, violently. I want to say Grammaticus saw something in the big E that scared him that probably hits that notion, as well as a priest in the Last Church.

He's definitely a good guy figure who justifies himself but he's as deluded as they come. He's definitely not the one I'd trust with that kind of power and with that kind of access to worlds. If he forces a group of people to bend a knee on one planet, he'll force the entire galaxy to do so in unison - if it's for the betterment of humanity.

I wouldn't willingly trust the Emprah to play fetch with my dog - no matter how intimidating the gigantic'isms or how cool the glow effects.

 Psienesis wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Ishtar was the Babylonian version of the very-popular Sumerian goddess Inanna, the Goddess of Passion, in both Love and War.

Who would therefore be a direct analogue to Slaanesh.

She's actually one of the Elder Gods of Order. Distant and uncaring as they are, primordial and strange, above the concerns of the Young Gods and their Great Game.

Chaos contains all things, including Order, because to always be Chaotic would be Ordered.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Ishtar was the Babylonian version of the very-popular Sumerian goddess Inanna, the Goddess of Passion, in both Love and War.

Who would therefore be a direct analogue to Slaanesh.

She's actually one of the Elder Gods of Order. Distant and uncaring as they are, primordial and strange, above the concerns of the Young Gods and their Great Game.

Chaos contains all things, including Order, because to always be Chaotic would be Ordered.

Just because Chaos says so, or some poncy knife ears claims it, doesn't make it true. ;P

Forcing an oxymoron to work is an eyesore, no matter how pulp it is. I guess if you add tentacles, big teeth, and eye-stocks though, its at least amusing.

It's not an oxymoron, it's just a bit zen, lol.