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Does it hit?

eg. screamer star jetbikes "over" my flying hive.

The weapon says "any unit" it goes over it gets the hits but fmc cant get hit with templates or instahit weapons according to rules.

Actually fmcs can get hit by template and blast weapons. They lack that rule that regular flyers have.

So yes your monster would get hit by screamers

I thought you could only snap shot flyers, templates and weapons that auto hit can not snap fire.

optrgrow wrote:
I thought you could only snap shot flyers, templates and weapons that auto hit can not snap fire.

You have to use Snap Shots at Zooming Flyers which have the Hard to hit rule.

Swooping FMC's do not

 DeathReaper wrote:

optrgrow wrote:
I thought you could only snap shot flyers, templates and weapons that auto hit can not snap fire.

You have to use Snap Shots at Zooming Flyers which have the Hard to hit rule.

Swooping FMC's do not

Not exactly, you still have to snap fire at them, they just don't have the rule that zooming flyers have that states that they aren't affected by templates and blasts. So they are capable of being hit by blasts that happen to scatter onto them or have them in the area.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yes screamers can do fly overs and slashing attack the crap out of your FMC's RAW. It's really a valid form of anti air creature at this time.

icefire78 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

optrgrow wrote:
I thought you could only snap shot flyers, templates and weapons that auto hit can not snap fire.

You have to use Snap Shots at Zooming Flyers which have the Hard to hit rule.

Swooping FMC's do not

Not exactly, you still have to snap fire at them, they just don't have the rule that zooming flyers have that states that they aren't affected by templates and blasts. So they are capable of being hit by blasts that happen to scatter onto them or have them in the area.

Or even Blasts with Skyfire.

Zoomers and Swoopers have the same rule, but different versions of the same rule. It's actually kind of painful.

icefire78 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

optrgrow wrote:
I thought you could only snap shot flyers, templates and weapons that auto hit can not snap fire.

You have to use Snap Shots at Zooming Flyers which have the Hard to hit rule.

Swooping FMC's do not

Not exactly, you still have to snap fire at them, they just don't have the rule that zooming flyers have that states that they aren't affected by templates and blasts. So they are capable of being hit by blasts that happen to scatter onto them or have them in the area.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yes screamers can do fly overs and slashing attack the crap out of your FMC's RAW. It's really a valid form of anti air creature at this time.

Yes, sorry, the Swooping FMC's have a rule called hard to hit, but it is not the same as the ones for zooming flyers.

The real question is: what type of attack is slashing attack(I will provide 1 internet punch to anyone that replies "slashing, duh")?

If it is a shooting attack then it cannot be used against fmcs; fmc hard to hit says shooting must snapshot, snapshot says if the shooting doesn't use bs then it cannot happen.

Kel has hit the nail on the head for why most TO's won't allow FMC to be hit by slashing attacks. It's not the idea of over or under, but it is resolved as a shooting attack in that sounds are allocated from a specific direction and cover saves can be taken. So it's essentially a shooting attack that you don't roll to hit for, which is why you can't target FMC with it

I don't get this.

Slashing Attack wrote:
If a unit of Screamers moves over one or more unengaged enemy units with its Turbo-boost movement, choose one of those units - it suffers D3 Strength 4 AP- hits per Screamer that moved over it.

Vector Strike wrote:
At the end of the Movement phase, nominate one enemy unit not locked in combat that the model has moved over that turn. That unit takes 1 hit (..). [..]A model that made a Vector Strike in its Movement phase counts as having already fired one weapon in its following Shooting phase.

Neither is a shooting attack, neither is a melee attack Why do you call it a shooting attack when the rules do not say so?

Can you Vector Strike a Flying FMC? Why can't you Slashing Attack a Flying FMC?

You can argue VS is a shooting attack because it counts as having fired a weapon. I don't see any reason not to slashing attack a FMC though.

Naw wrote:
I don't get this.

Slashing Attack wrote:
If a unit of Screamers moves over one or more unengaged enemy units with its Turbo-boost movement, choose one of those units - it suffers D3 Strength 4 AP- hits per Screamer that moved over it.

Vector Strike wrote:
At the end of the Movement phase, nominate one enemy unit not locked in combat that the model has moved over that turn. That unit takes 1 hit (..). [..]A model that made a Vector Strike in its Movement phase counts as having already fired one weapon in its following Shooting phase.

Neither is a shooting attack, neither is a melee attack Why do you call it a shooting attack when the rules do not say so?

Can you Vector Strike a Flying FMC? Why can't you Slashing Attack a Flying FMC?

A vector strike is done from a Flying creature though, the slashing attack is being done by a model or models that are on the ground which when attacking a flyer would make it a snapshot in which templates/auto hits can not be made.

optrgrow wrote:

Naw wrote:
I don't get this.

Slashing Attack wrote:
If a unit of Screamers moves over one or more unengaged enemy units with its Turbo-boost movement, choose one of those units - it suffers D3 Strength 4 AP- hits per Screamer that moved over it.

Vector Strike wrote:
At the end of the Movement phase, nominate one enemy unit not locked in combat that the model has moved over that turn. That unit takes 1 hit (..). [..]A model that made a Vector Strike in its Movement phase counts as having already fired one weapon in its following Shooting phase.

Neither is a shooting attack, neither is a melee attack Why do you call it a shooting attack when the rules do not say so?

Can you Vector Strike a Flying FMC? Why can't you Slashing Attack a Flying FMC?

A vector strike is done from a Flying creature though, the slashing attack is being done by a model or models that are on the ground which when attacking a flyer would make it a snapshot in which templates/auto hits can not be made.

They're jetbikes though, so they can clearly move above the ground to some degree, it's just never specified how much altitude they can gain.

 KharnsRightHand wrote:

optrgrow wrote:

Naw wrote:
I don't get this.

Slashing Attack wrote:
If a unit of Screamers moves over one or more unengaged enemy units with its Turbo-boost movement, choose one of those units - it suffers D3 Strength 4 AP- hits per Screamer that moved over it.

Vector Strike wrote:
At the end of the Movement phase, nominate one enemy unit not locked in combat that the model has moved over that turn. That unit takes 1 hit (..). [..]A model that made a Vector Strike in its Movement phase counts as having already fired one weapon in its following Shooting phase.

Neither is a shooting attack, neither is a melee attack Why do you call it a shooting attack when the rules do not say so?

Can you Vector Strike a Flying FMC? Why can't you Slashing Attack a Flying FMC?

A vector strike is done from a Flying creature though, the slashing attack is being done by a model or models that are on the ground which when attacking a flyer would make it a snapshot in which templates/auto hits can not be made.

They're jetbikes though, so they can clearly move above the ground to some degree, it's just never specified how much altitude they can gain.

They still are not considered flying for the sake of resolving attacks, I am pretty sure the vehicle/creature has to have that in their profile.

optrgrow wrote:

Naw wrote:
I don't get this.

Slashing Attack wrote:
If a unit of Screamers moves over one or more unengaged enemy units with its Turbo-boost movement, choose one of those units - it suffers D3 Strength 4 AP- hits per Screamer that moved over it.

Vector Strike wrote:
At the end of the Movement phase, nominate one enemy unit not locked in combat that the model has moved over that turn. That unit takes 1 hit (..). [..]A model that made a Vector Strike in its Movement phase counts as having already fired one weapon in its following Shooting phase.

Neither is a shooting attack, neither is a melee attack Why do you call it a shooting attack when the rules do not say so?

Can you Vector Strike a Flying FMC? Why can't you Slashing Attack a Flying FMC?

A vector strike is done from a Flying creature though, the slashing attack is being done by a model or models that are on the ground which when attacking a flyer would make it a snapshot in which templates/auto hits can not be made.

So when you have FMC in e.g. ruins I can say that you will not gain any cover save because obviously you are flying high over it? We have to read the rules as they are. Screamers moving over (under?) a FMC would be able to do slashing attacks.

And to the poster who said it could be argued that vector strike is a shooting attack, no, just no, please, not again.

Naw wrote:

optrgrow wrote:

Naw wrote:
I don't get this.

Slashing Attack wrote:
If a unit of Screamers moves over one or more unengaged enemy units with its Turbo-boost movement, choose one of those units - it suffers D3 Strength 4 AP- hits per Screamer that moved over it.

Vector Strike wrote:
At the end of the Movement phase, nominate one enemy unit not locked in combat that the model has moved over that turn. That unit takes 1 hit (..). [..]A model that made a Vector Strike in its Movement phase counts as having already fired one weapon in its following Shooting phase.

Neither is a shooting attack, neither is a melee attack Why do you call it a shooting attack when the rules do not say so?

Can you Vector Strike a Flying FMC? Why can't you Slashing Attack a Flying FMC?

A vector strike is done from a Flying creature though, the slashing attack is being done by a model or models that are on the ground which when attacking a flyer would make it a snapshot in which templates/auto hits can not be made.

So when you have FMC in e.g. ruins I can say that you will not gain any cover save because obviously you are flying high over it? We have to read the rules as they are. Screamers moving over (under?) a FMC would be able to do slashing attacks.

Is a FMC that is flying allowed to gain additional cover from being in ruins? I don't think i've ever played a game where this was allowed. Can you please let me know where in the rulebook it says this is allowed because being able to up my jink to a 2+ would be amazing.

Sorry, let me clarify, I meant LOS there when I talked about claiming cover. Obviously your dude is high enough and not inside/behind a building.

..or the rules for Slashing Attacks don't really care one way or another. The rules are similar to Vector Strikes in wording, and if your argument is that one is flying, the other isn't, I'll just ask you to show me the rule where we are told how high models are on top of the table.

My question is this though, the jetbikes are clearly ground units which are making (either a melee or shooting, the profile for the attack doesn't say) but regardless, being ground units are they not still considered snap firing at something that is flying? There is no rule except for skyfire as far as I am aware that enables ground units to not snapfire.

I could see the argument being made similar to vector strike IF they were flying units themselves, but they are not and do not have it anywhere in their profile which would mean any attack made against a flyer is a snapshot hence my issue with the autohit/template weapons not working.

Cover does work that way. You put an fmc in ruins and it gains a ruins cover save.

I'll weigh in and say that I believe the screamers slashing attacks do hit the fmc, as they are neither a shooting attack nor a close combat attack and they hit automatically. If they didn't hit fmc's, then neither could a stomp attack outside of combat.

The only requirement to generate the automatic hits is that you move over the unit on the table. It's not a shooting attack and doesn't roll to hit, so snapshots are irrelevant.

Of course I might be missing some specific wording reason that disproves my interpretation. Don't have the rulebook handy.

optrgrow wrote:
My question is this though, the jetbikes are clearly ground units which are making (either a melee or shooting, the profile for the attack doesn't say) but regardless, being ground units are they not still considered snap firing at something that is flying? There is no rule except for skyfire as far as I am aware that enables ground units to not snapfire.

I could see the argument being made similar to vector strike IF they were flying units themselves, but they are not and do not have it anywhere in their profile which would mean any attack made against a flyer is a snapshot hence my issue with the autohit/template weapons not working.

This would apply if they were making a shooting attack, or at least counting as making a shooting attack. They are not. Even at the risk of an internet punch from the Kommisar, it is a Slashing Attack as much as Stomp is a Stomp Attack. It has no definitions beyond that to associate it with. At least Stomp has an association with Melee Attacks by virtue of being in the Fight Sub-Phase, but these Slash Attacks do not have an Attack Phase to associate it with, nor are they Vector Strikes (it would be a little easier if they were).

And FMC Hard To Hit does not allow the FMC to ignore automatic hits from anything like Flyer Hard To Hit does.

It pretty clearly states that it hits "any unit" it moves over. There is no rule that states Jetbikes can't move over flyers.

 KhorneontheCobb wrote:
It pretty clearly states that it hits "any unit" it moves over. There is no rule that states Jetbikes can't move over flyers.

In fact, does it not state that Jump, Jet Pack and Jetbike unit types can move at as high an altitude as possible, including over all intervening terrain. So it can move over an FMC. Therefore, by the RAW of Slashing Attack, any unit it moves over suffers.....
Thereby, if it moves over an FMC, which it can, that FMC suffers....

 Chaos Spawn wrote:

 KhorneontheCobb wrote:
It pretty clearly states that it hits "any unit" it moves over. There is no rule that states Jetbikes can't move over flyers.

In fact, does it not state that Jump, Jet Pack and Jetbike unit types can move at as high an altitude as possible, including over all intervening terrain. So it can move over an FMC. Therefore, by the RAW of Slashing Attack, any unit it moves over suffers.....
Thereby, if it moves over an FMC, which it can, that FMC suffers....

Yes- you are correct. Which is why I've never been able to understand where this argument comes from.