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So I've been reading into the fluff for warhammer and the AL in particular, and I have to ask what exactly is their ultimate purpose? I ask this because the world eaters for example seem to be easy to underestand and what their purpose (Khorne)

To me from the novels like Delieverance Lost and their others, they seem to have a James Bond/Mission Impossible type feel mixed in with this illumnati playing both sides for a third outcome etc...

Keep in mind that more than any other legion, the Alpha Legion operates heavily on a need to know basis. What AL high command sees as a cover-up, the ground troop may see as legitimate. This is just a theory but it seems likely that the Alpha Legion eventually gets lost in its own story. The left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing and the legion collapses under a whole host of contradictory orders and information. Where one cell may seem loyal and actually be a pawn of chaos, another cell may seem traitor but acting for the good of the galaxy. When Alpharius was around, he at least had the overall picture and could guide seemingly contradictory elements of the legion. But post-heresy, assuming he's not around (but he might still be), there are definietely elements of the Alpha Legion that have lost the big picture, or are still following an older objective that no longer exists. The truth is unknown.

We don't actually have a clue They could be working towards the Imperium's downfall, they could be the only reason that it hasn't collapsed already, there is literally no way of knowing for sure.

You mean in M41?

There isn't a solid Alpha Legion plan. They are sundered into so many splintered cells and cults that you can only look at an individual cell to determine what their goal is.

The Alpha Legion's ultimate purpose is to die at the hands of cool loyalist chapters, then have a black library series written about it for 49.99 per hard cover.

 Psienesis wrote:
You mean in M41?

There isn't a solid Alpha Legion plan. They are sundered into so many splintered cells and cults that you can only look at an individual cell to determine what their goal is.

While I agree they're even less centralised in 40k, stories like Truth Is My Weapon and We Are One shows that they are capable of infiltrating the Inquisition and have been able to gather quite a bit of resources. Whether this is the independent work of one cell or a larger organisation is obviously unknown. To me it just doesn't seem like it would be worth it for a single cell to do it.

And then there's the issue brought up a little in The Serpent Beneath and made abundantly clear in Seventh Serpent that Alpha Legion is experiencing its own civil war during the horus heresy and who knows if even in the 40th Millenium they're still trying to pummel the other half into oblivion.

Soooo... We may have a case where both halves of the Alpha Legion are battling a sort of war in the shadows of the galaxy. Both sides are probably unwilling to execute any task seriously detrimental or beneficial to the Imperium lest they expose themselves to and possibly have their respective plans undermined by the other half.

 King Pariah wrote:
And then there's the issue brought up a little in The Serpent Beneath and made abundantly clear in Seventh Serpent that Alpha Legion is experiencing its own civil war during the horus heresy and who knows if even in the 40th Millenium they're still trying to pummel the other half into oblivion.

Soooo... We may have a case where both halves of the Alpha Legion are battling a sort of war in the shadows of the galaxy. Both sides are probably unwilling to execute any task seriously detrimental or beneficial to the Imperium lest they expose themselves to and possibly have their respective plans undermined by the other half.

Passive-aggressive warfare.

 ChazSexington wrote:

 King Pariah wrote:
And then there's the issue brought up a little in The Serpent Beneath and made abundantly clear in Seventh Serpent that Alpha Legion is experiencing its own civil war during the horus heresy and who knows if even in the 40th Millenium they're still trying to pummel the other half into oblivion.

Soooo... We may have a case where both halves of the Alpha Legion are battling a sort of war in the shadows of the galaxy. Both sides are probably unwilling to execute any task seriously detrimental or beneficial to the Imperium lest they expose themselves to and possibly have their respective plans undermined by the other half.

Passive-aggressive warfare.

That's not really PC, bro !

As it's going on, I think that GW and it's writers will go even deeper into that, as far as linking major post-heresy events to the Alpha Legion. It wouldn't surprise me if they did that with events such as the Age of the Apostasy and Cardinal Vandire's rebellion.

I am betting that even if the Alpha Legion is "sundered", that they still maintain ties to each cell. To me, they seem to mirror the Dark Angels, in that their split is an illusion, that they are still very much one legion. It seems exactly like Alpharius to give spread the idea that they are split up, so one doesn't expect the Alpha Legion to act in concert.

Engrenages wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:

 King Pariah wrote:
And then there's the issue brought up a little in The Serpent Beneath and made abundantly clear in Seventh Serpent that Alpha Legion is experiencing its own civil war during the horus heresy and who knows if even in the 40th Millenium they're still trying to pummel the other half into oblivion.

Soooo... We may have a case where both halves of the Alpha Legion are battling a sort of war in the shadows of the galaxy. Both sides are probably unwilling to execute any task seriously detrimental or beneficial to the Imperium lest they expose themselves to and possibly have their respective plans undermined by the other half.

Passive-aggressive warfare.

That's not really PC, bro !

As it's going on, I think that GW and it's writers will go even deeper into that, as far as linking major post-heresy events to the Alpha Legion. It wouldn't surprise me if they did that with events such as the Age of the Apostasy and Cardinal Vandire's rebellion.

I hope not - to have the Alpha Legion responsible for "everything" is poor and lazy writting.

I think it was book 3 of FWs HH series that seems to imply that the AL have no actual plan. They are too absorbed in intrique and plotting that they have lost track of whether they are coming or going. They spiral further and further into mystery and it consumes them.

Its safe to say their goals post the book Legion was to bring the death of chaos through the death of mankind. Yet they also seem to have decided to change the plan from the Cabal to something else. An it wouldn't surprise me that it changed from there.

By the time of 40k I doubt anyone has any idea what the actual end game is supposed to be and instead just plays a great game for no true reason. They might be the truest of Tzeentch worships in the 40k setting...but in seeeecret lol.

 BrotherGecko wrote:
I think it was book 3 of FWs HH series that seems to imply that the AL have no actual plan. They are too absorbed in intrique and plotting that they have lost track of whether they are coming or going. They spiral further and further into mystery and it consumes them.

Its safe to say their goals post the book Legion was to bring the death of chaos through the death of mankind. Yet they also seem to have decided to change the plan from the Cabal to something else. An it wouldn't surprise me that it changed from there.

By the time of 40k I doubt anyone has any idea what the actual end game is supposed to be and instead just plays a great game for no true reason. They might be the truest of Tzeentch worships in the 40k setting...but in seeeecret lol.

^This. There are so many Daemon Princes and such involved with the higher-ups in the AL that it is unlikely that any sort of unified end-goal is attainable, or even desired. It seems that plots and intrigue are both the means and the destination, the actual results thereof incidental and unimportant.

Their ultimate purpose is to be GW's "ninja renegade faction" running around making sure Warhammer 40k stays chaotic.

Fluff-wise I'm sure the same reason is to let the audience guess for themselves. The 40k fluff is only really there to provide enough narrative to buy their stuff.

 BrotherGecko wrote:
I think it was book 3 of FWs HH series that seems to imply that the AL have no actual plan. They are too absorbed in intrique and plotting that they have lost track of whether they are coming or going. They spiral further and further into mystery and it consumes them.

That'd be the current CSM codex...

 King Pariah wrote:

 BrotherGecko wrote:
I think it was book 3 of FWs HH series that seems to imply that the AL have no actual plan. They are too absorbed in intrique and plotting that they have lost track of whether they are coming or going. They spiral further and further into mystery and it consumes them.

That'd be the current CSM codex...

Must have some crossover as I never read the current CSM codex.

I have always been slightly puzzled by the Alpha Legion. It seems that they are utterly the wrong tool for the job, you don't need thousands of heavily armoured superhumans to work devious intrigues. In fact, it'd probably work against you, they're hardly inconspicuous, nor subtle.
Aplharious would have been a better primarch for the inquisition, or officio assassinorum.

The AL tends to work through cultists and hypno-indoctrinated human agents, with the Marines only showing up when things are about to go up in flames.

 r_squared wrote:
I have always been slightly puzzled by the Alpha Legion. It seems that they are utterly the wrong tool for the job, you don't need thousands of heavily armoured superhumans to work devious intrigues. In fact, it'd probably work against you, they're hardly inconspicuous, nor subtle.
Aplharious would have been a better primarch for the inquisition, or officio assassinorum.

The whole infiltrator thing was not how the majority of the AL operated during the Great Crusade. As explained in HH3, their focus was misinformation. They would have extremely elaborate and visible heraldry, rank insignia, colors, and call signs, all so the enemy would learn all of them. Then hours before the battle the Alpha Legion would change all of that with a completely different system and throw the enemy into disarray.

jareddm wrote:

 r_squared wrote:
I have always been slightly puzzled by the Alpha Legion. It seems that they are utterly the wrong tool for the job, you don't need thousands of heavily armoured superhumans to work devious intrigues. In fact, it'd probably work against you, they're hardly inconspicuous, nor subtle.
Aplharious would have been a better primarch for the inquisition, or officio assassinorum.

The whole infiltrator thing was not how the majority of the AL operated during the Great Crusade. As explained in HH3, their focus was misinformation. They would have extremely elaborate and visible heraldry, rank insignia, colors, and call signs, all so the enemy would learn all of them. Then hours before the battle the Alpha Legion would change all of that with a completely different system and throw the enemy into disarray.

How would that throw the enemy into disarray, exactly?

 dusara217 wrote:

jareddm wrote:

 r_squared wrote:
I have always been slightly puzzled by the Alpha Legion. It seems that they are utterly the wrong tool for the job, you don't need thousands of heavily armoured superhumans to work devious intrigues. In fact, it'd probably work against you, they're hardly inconspicuous, nor subtle.
Aplharious would have been a better primarch for the inquisition, or officio assassinorum.

The whole infiltrator thing was not how the majority of the AL operated during the Great Crusade. As explained in HH3, their focus was misinformation. They would have extremely elaborate and visible heraldry, rank insignia, colors, and call signs, all so the enemy would learn all of them. Then hours before the battle the Alpha Legion would change all of that with a completely different system and throw the enemy into disarray.

How would that throw the enemy into disarray, exactly?

In the real world it wouldn't at all. I know this because my brigade tried it in a war game and it changed zero.

Remember, though that, in 40K, literally everyone is a moron, so such things have a greater chance of succeeding.

 Psienesis wrote:
The AL tends to work through cultists and hypno-indoctrinated human agents, with the Marines only showing up when things are about to go up in flames.

Which renders the whole point even more odd. When they were part of the imperium, the role of infiltration and subversion would be much more readily and subtley performed by other specialised organisations, with any legion being used as a tactical strike force when necessary. That's what marines are for after all.
I appreciate the idea, I like their heraldry and fluff, its just that the idea seems wrong. It's a bit like having an infantry platoon of assassins. Probably very good, but a complete waste of resources, and focus.

Probably very good, but a complete waste of resources, and focus.

That is pretty much all Space Marines. There is nothing they do that cannot be done by the Imperial Guard in sufficient numbers.

 Psienesis wrote:

Probably very good, but a complete waste of resources, and focus.

That is pretty much all Space Marines. There is nothing they do that cannot be done by the Imperial Guard in sufficient numbers.

Or just enough firepower from orbit followed by a fast airborne force to go down and accept surrender.

Their purpose is to lurk in this forum, and troll people with their snide sarcastic remarks and set troll baits.

 Filch wrote:
Their purpose is to lurk in this forum, and troll people with their snide sarcastic remarks and set troll baits.

Shhhh! You know the rules. We don't speak of them lest we draw their ire...

Back to the callsign idea, I just like the idea that whomever is planning the battle, for all intents and purposes decide on whatever inkling, to change up the calls.

I.e. "I really fancy a futuristic space pizza today, all the calls are going to revolve around pizza names.... airstrike at Milano Milano Hawaii Neopolitan"

The Alpha Legion can be explained by imagining Alpharious and Omegon in a room going:

"But I knew that you knew that I knew that you knew, so I did this!"
"Aha, but I knew that you knew that I knew…"

Durandal wrote:
The Alpha Legion can be explained by imagining Alpharious and Omegon in a room going:

"But I knew that you knew that I knew that you knew, so I did this!"
"Aha, but I knew that you knew that I knew…"

Alpha Légion is basically Death Note ... IN SPEHSS !