Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Plasma Cannons now-a-days: yay or nay

Nay. Their biggest problem is that small blasts don't generate hits to deal damage with. Against infantry that are properly spread out you're only going to get a single hit per blast most of the time, maybe 2 with a lucky scatter. The larger the target gets the harder it is to get more then 1 hit per blast (such as against bikers or terminators. Against MCs and vehicles you only can get 1 hit at best. And that's not to mention that 1/6 of the time they don't fire at all, and that cover is easy to come by which mitigates their ap2. Plasma cannons only end up paying off when the opponent gets stuck bunched up (like from deep striking and not running, disembarking from a wrecked vehicle, a bad consolidate from leaving combat) but those are not reliable event to take an expensive weapon for.

Nay, small blasts really aren't that good now, and having the potential to kill yourself 1/6 of the time before you can even fire doesn't help much

On infantry platforms, nay. They cost too much for something you can't even snapfire on the move and as others have mentioned the small blast is worst off compared to consistent rate of fire weapons like grav cannons which really outshine them. On certain vehicle platforms like the Leman Russ Executioner its decent since it synergizes with the main weapon and the codex has a source of preferred enemy to prevent your tank from overheating itself to death. Its bad when its by itself like on a dreadnought though.

Nay. Can't move and shot even a snap shot with small blasts. Only useful on very specific units in very specific situations.

They MIGHT have a place in the Skyhammer, but otherwise nay.

The biggest problem with a plasma cannon is that it's an anti-heavy infantry and anti-monster weapon - it's blast/rate of fire isn't quite high enough for 'crowd control' and it doesn't have the strength to be considered a true anti-tank weapon.

As a result, it has to square off pretty much exactly in its intended role against the Grav-Cannon.

Which is better at killing monsters, better at killing infantry, better at killing tanks, and can snap fire and fire on the move.

I say yay. Every weapon has a weakness. Grav cannons may be better against heavy infantry but they are more specialised, whereas plasma cannons have a decent secondary role against light infantry.

True story: I've never managed to actually shoot with a footslogging plasma cannon dude. They always have to move or happen to overheat and kill themselves so I never bring those anymore and neither should you. The only plasma cannon in my army at the moment is on Sammael's bike and I've had some decent success with that one.

While they aren't optimal, they have their uses. A group of well placed PC Devastators can play a role of area denial to your opponent. Them simply being on the board can force your opponent into other courses of action.

Yay.

I always field 1 or 2 in tac squads that will camp home objectives(in cover, with a gravgun backup).

Small blast is not the problem most think it is; a "properly spaced" enemy unit nets you more hits on most scatters(2 instead of 1). The only enemy mitigation to that is the conga line, but then you get to direct traffic by forcing them to move back into coherency(bolters and grav help reduce their forward movement to latteral) clumped enemies get a benefit of either several hits(clump in/behind cover for saves), or none at all.

In my guard army I always field the executioner and 1-2 plasma sents.

Nay. Small templates are awful. Also, S7 AP2 is surprisingly poor against most of the power units in the game now.

 Krusha wrote:
I say yay. Every weapon has a weakness. Grav cannons may be better against heavy infantry but they are more specialised, whereas plasma cannons have a decent secondary role against light infantry.

Untrue. You're likely to hit three models at most with the Plasma Cannon (and that's assuming NO scatter) and Grav Cannons get rerolls to wound, so at worst they're wounding Guardsmen half the time.

Oh, and plasma cannons don't work 16% of the time. And kill the wielder about 5% of the time.

I'd rather have something more reliable, especially as they as they aren't instant death against most MEQ/TEQ. They can be good on a select few platforms (like the Executioner mentioned above, and the S8 AP2 version on the Forgefiend can ward off deep striking elites with the threat of instant death), but when small blasts scatter, you tend to be lucky if you hit anything. I'm not even a fan of using them on Obliterators - they're pretty much the weapon of last resort if I have nothing else to choose from.

Yay but not a min/max choice. A good all rounder weapon that is way more useful in most cases than a missile launcher for the same price. Gets hot is risky but on something like MEQs its a fairly low chance to kill the shooter. While its easy to think that every model is going to be spread out 2" apart but in reality models do tend to get clumped up from exploding transports, close combat, terrain, etc. Sure its no grav or lascannon but its probably the most well rounded option for long range fire support. A cheap psyker for prescience can really improve their reliability.

Prior to the miracle of grav, plasma cannons were a pretty good weapon. Now, they're very situational, and grav is almost always a better choice. Grav is gravy. Grav all day errday. Grav über alles. 360 mlg noscope 420 grav it.

 Vankraken wrote:
Yay but not a min/max choice. A good all rounder weapon that is way more useful in most cases than a missile launcher for the same price. Gets hot is risky but on something like MEQs its a fairly low chance to kill the shooter. While its easy to think that every model is going to be spread out 2" apart but in reality models do tend to get clumped up from exploding transports, close combat, terrain, etc. Sure its no grav or lascannon but its probably the most well rounded option for long range fire support. A cheap psyker for prescience can really improve their reliability.

Plasma cannons are situational, but can sometimes be good. I quote the exploded vehicle example as I once took advantage of this type of thing (closely packed troops) in a tournament game. I used the Lion's Roar relic (basically like a combi-plasma cannon that is mastercrafted) and pwned all but one Veteran Guardsman that had come out behind one of those drill thingys. 9 dudes in one shot because they were absolutely packed together like sardines.

Of course, that was a perfect storm and does not in any way indicate that plasma cannons are very good. They are, as I said, situational, but can force the enemy to change his tactics a bit in order to mitigate losses (like spreading his units out when he would really rather put them closer together).

I wish plasma cannons had heavy 3 at 36" and special rule to ignore the first gets hot or reroll 1s. Then they be worth their points.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Of course, that was a perfect storm and does not in any way indicate that plasma cannons are very good. They are, as I said, situational, but can force the enemy to change his tactics a bit in order to mitigate losses (like spreading his units out when he would really rather put them closer together).

Agreed. I'm fairly pro-frag missiles for the same reason - it's often harder than you'd think to maintain the theoretical 2" spacing - if you can shoot deep striking units, or people who've just charged and blown up a vehicle, or trying to pass through a narrow gap, you can really hammer them.

The problem is that even then, you have to do distinctly better than average to get past the Grav-cannon's 5 shots - especially since the Amp rerolls to wound, and a lot of the ideal targets are on bigger than 25mm bases.

Back in RT (and later, maybe), didn't HPs have shot options?
Sort of an overload mode, for more firepower, but couldn't shoot the next turn?

As for now, I don't use them.
Small Blast is too small, unless you can re-roll to hit.

What about 4 plasma cannon devs in Skyhammer? I am going to be getting two boxes of the new Devastators so will be able to put Grav cannons in one pod but not sure what to put in other pod.

If you get them on a cheap platform then Yay.

Everyone who poo poos blasts because "people just spread their guys out" are missing the point. Yes, you spread your guys out, now I can poke holes in them with direct fire, you're playing my game now, not yours.

Also, you can only spread out so much when you get shot out of a vehicle, let alone when one explodes all around you.

 More Dakka wrote:
If you get them on a cheap platform then Yay.

Everyone who poo poos blasts because "people just spread their guys out" are missing the point. Yes, you spread your guys out, now I can poke holes in them with direct fire, you're playing my game now, not yours.

Also, you can only spread out so much when you get shot out of a vehicle, let alone when one explodes all around you.

Even not spread out, S7 AP2 is no longer what it was. TWC will just ignore you literally the entire game. You'll never kill WKs with these things. Plasma cannons are designed to kill last century's power units. The fatter infantry bases also did them no favors.

 More Dakka wrote:
Yes, you spread your guys out, now I can poke holes in them with direct fire, you're playing my game now, not yours.

What are you even talking about? Plasma Cannons aren't barrage.

Dakka has a tendency to play an imaginery meta where every player spreads his units out with exactly two inches between each base and terrain neither blocks line of sight nor constricts movement. Once you're aware of this imaginery meta, it's much easier to determine which advice is sound and which is not

Even with some clumping, the plasma cannon is very lack luster. Again, it's optimal targets are no longer the power units in the game. You can shoot TWC all day with plasma cannons and get nowhere.

And lots of people play with a lot of terrain that doesn't block LOS. Of course, adding a lot of LOS blocking terrain will make your plasma cannons garbage anyway.

There ok, but it depends on how infantry heavy your meta is versus big stompy creatures/walkers. If you have players still taking lots of infantry and light vehicles there not bad. If your filled with players who take knights, WK, and the bigger tau suits then there not useful

I'm quickly coming to the conclusion that as Marines you want either Grav or Melta as your heavy weapons/specials/combi weapons.

Most other things just lack the punch or volume to get the job done. Mind you, my plasma tends to get hot allot.

 Bryan01 wrote:
I'm quickly coming to the conclusion that as Marines you want either Grav or Melta as your heavy weapons/specials/combi weapons.

Most other things just lack the punch or volume to get the job done. Mind you, my plasma tends to get hot allot.

Plasma guns have a niche on non-relentless models, but otherwise you are correct.