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Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

 Talys wrote:
Haven't they done other big "things", like a space marine in the front previously, and a life-size Rhino somewhere? My local GW store has a life-size space marine statue in it (not out of any expensive material, I'm sure).

I don't know why people would say this is a waste of money, any more than building a fountain in the front of an office building. I'm pretty sure they didn't have to pay millions for it Not that I think it's gorgeous or anything, but whatever... it's a statue. Can't miss the building if you're driving up to it LOL.



The difference is that the Space Marine is the foundation upon which the company was built on, one of the few things that GW can lay claim to that is genuinely iconic.

To have that outside the HQ was not only fitting and appropriate, but it had stood there for years, since the construction of the building itself I believe.

The Sigmarine is none of that, it's a false idol that had done nothing, and to date hasn't done anything, to justify its installation. A derivative pretender installed because the board felt like "doing marketing" and because they've no clue what's valuable to people about what they do, had no idea of the symbolism in the process of tearing down the long standing Space Marine (and literally stuffing it under the stairs) and replacing it with that.

Sometimes cost isn't about money.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/27 18:53:18


We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

They used to have a life size Space Marine, 8 feet tall, and they used to have a working Rhino built on an FV430 chassis (British APC a bit like an M113.)

The reason you do these things is for publicity. At least you can see YouTube videos of the Rhino, so it wasn't for nothing.

The life-size Sigmarine statue would have been a great idea if they launched it with a national press beano bigging up GW as one of Britain's most successful export design and manufacturing companies, launching a brand new fantasy 3D Action Role-Playing Strategy Game. Etc. If it was me, I would have flown in hobby journalists from all the major territories, staged a two-day extravaganza with demo games, free starter kits, interviews with the designers, and a launch party culminating in the unveiling of the Sigmarine with fireworks. I mean feth, this was supposed to be their biggest launch in 15 years!

Instead, it was used as an opportunity to round up the HQ staff in the car park and talk at them.

We live in a world in which an email or a video can go viral and reach millions of people. GW just hope someone will drive up to their HQ building.

Twelve people participated in the latest AoD campaign day about the Snow Witches of ThingummyLand.

GW appears to be genetically allergic to marketing.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority






 Talys wrote:
Haven't they done other big "things", like a space marine in the front previously, and a life-size Rhino somewhere? My local GW store has a life-size space marine statue in it (not out of any expensive material, I'm sure).

I don't know why people would say this is a waste of money, any more than building a fountain in the front of an office building. I'm pretty sure they didn't have to pay millions for it Not that I think it's gorgeous or anything, but whatever... it's a statue. Can't miss the building if you're driving up to it LOL.
The major difference is that WH40K was already a big success before GW went and commissioned statues commemorating the game.

In the case of the Sigmarine, it commissioned was because GW was speculating that Age of Sigmar was going to be a runaway success.

From what I have heard... it wasn't.

So, it is like commissioning a giant Oscar for Battleship: the Motion Picture before the movie hits the theaters.

The Auld Grump

Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.

The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
 
   
Made in nl
[MOD]
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Cozy cockpit of an Archer ARC-5S

I think the placement of the Sigmarite Warrior was less a show of them thinking it would be a success and more a sign to everybody that they would see this Age of Sigmar thing through and that they are committed to it.



Fatum Iustum Stultorum



Fiat justitia ruat caelum

 
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority






 BrookM wrote:
I think the placement of the Sigmarite Warrior was less a show of them thinking it would be a success and more a sign to everybody that they would see this Age of Sigmar thing through and that they are committed to it.
Given how well the game is doing locally (far less than Warhammer) I think that it is more of an indication that they should have been committed for it.

The word that I would grab would be 'hubris'.

The Auld Grump - whom geeks destroy, they first make mock.

Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.

The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
 
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





 BrookM wrote:
I think the placement of the Sigmarite Warrior was less a show of them thinking it would be a success and more a sign to everybody that they would see this Age of Sigmar thing through and that they are committed to it.
Didn't the Space Marine get put back up in place of the Sigmarine recently? Or was that just a rumour?
   
Made in us
The New Miss Macross!





Deep Frier of Mount Doom

Maybe GW will next commission a statue in honor of how they see their customers...

http://www.polyvore.com/kevin_smith_mooby_dogma_gold/thing?id=54054694
   
Made in gb
Posts with Authority






Norn Iron

Flashman wrote:Oh my word, I had not seen this and have just googled it

Spoiler:


"Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"

Kilkrazy wrote:Twelve people participated in the latest AoD campaign day about the Snow Witches of ThingummyLand.


What, the one that showcased the unimaginably deep background and immersive gameplay by basically saying "Here's some snow; have a fight"?

TheAuldGrump wrote:Given how well the game is doing locally (far less than Warhammer) I think that it is more of an indication that they should have been committed for it.


Exalted.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/12/27 23:01:51


I'm sooo, sooo sorry.

Plog - Random sculpts and OW Helves 9/3/23 
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority






 Vermis wrote:
Flashman wrote:Oh my word, I had not seen this and have just googled it

Spoiler:


"Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
I... am ashamed that I didn't think of that quote. *Bows head in shame*

Well done.

The Auld Grump

Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.

The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
 
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka






Ramesses II lived nearly 90 years -- beyond exceptional in his day, outliving most of his children and wives -- and remains one of the most famous, influential, powerful and revered monarchs in the history of mankind. His body is still on display today. If that's reflective of GW's legacy, regardless what poetic travelers in desert wastes think in the future, it would be a pretty good epitaph
   
Made in gb
Posts with Authority






Norn Iron

AuldGrump: to be honest I'd been saving it.

Talys: and he's dead. It's kinda the point of the poem, dontcha know. Erecting big statues is not going to save anyone or their empire. But at least Rameses/Ozymandias had the excuse that no mere mortal can outrun time in the end.
If GW leaves a legacy of people saying "ooh didn't they have a good run" it'll likely be followed by "and then they botched it right up." It won't save them from the fact that they're actively transforming their gaming scene into 'lone and level sands' right now.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/27 22:16:44


I'm sooo, sooo sorry.

Plog - Random sculpts and OW Helves 9/3/23 
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority






 Talys wrote:
Ramesses II lived nearly 90 years -- beyond exceptional in his day, outliving most of his children and wives -- and remains one of the most famous, influential, powerful and revered monarchs in the history of mankind. His body is still on display today. If that's reflective of GW's legacy, regardless what poetic travelers in desert wastes think in the future, it would be a pretty good epitaph
No - we are not going by the historic Ramesses II (or Ramses as my spellchecker is trying to force down my throat) - we are going by the poem....

You know - the one that goes:
I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: "Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed:
And on the pedestal these words appear:
'My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!'
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away."

And that is the legacy being summed up in that quote.

A legacy of decay, desolation, and eventual erasure from the world.

So, if you are going to try to reinterpret what was meant by bringing up Ozymandias then you can expect correction.

Frankly, given the 'success' of AoS... I think that is pretty likely of what will be left of meaning for that statue.

I also suspect that WH40K will long outlive AoS - and so would make a better fit for your interpretation than the Sigmarine.

The Auld Grump

Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.

The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

 Talys wrote:
Ramesses II lived nearly 90 years -- beyond exceptional in his day, outliving most of his children and wives -- and remains one of the most famous, influential, powerful and revered monarchs in the history of mankind. His body is still on display today. If that's reflective of GW's legacy, regardless what poetic travelers in desert wastes think in the future, it would be a pretty good epitaph


That's as may be but this thread is about GW's trading statement.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in au
Pustulating Plague Priest




But the two vast and trunk less legs would make handy goalposts, if you weren't planning on moving them anytime soon.

There’s a difference between having a hobby and being a narcissist.  
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




 TheAuldGrump wrote:

I am being completely serious.

No snark at all.

GW is not the only business that has been damaged by the aftermath of a big boom for one of their lines.

It is called 'boom and bust' - please look it up before accusing me of snark. It is also sometimes called a 'bubble' - and can leave a company in tatters when the bubble bursts. (Hell, look at the Great Depression - a real estate and stock market bubble that took the world economy with it when it popped.)



I left out the second part (I again agree completely with all of it) but I don't really think of the LOTR bubble as a bubble in economic terms. It wasn't really inflated in some unnatural way (see 2008) that needed to burst at some point. They just got a product that got (massively) advertised and popular and did nothing with that. It was only a bubble because they called it that and didn't handle it well. If they just assume the money will come rolling in without doing anything or thinking about their own future then it's their fault and not of the fault of the sudden hit product they had.

Real economic bubbles tend to have a mismatch in perception and economic reality component, and not just a slightly lopsided supply/demand imbalance. That's what makes them so volatile and not easily absorbed. If a simple short term economic imbalance were a bubble then every startup that is bought for an inflated price and can't deliver a follow up product to justify that price would be a bubble. The dot-com bubble, for example, was on a bigger scale than just a little mismatch between a few elements.

GW acted naive (at best) but then tried to blame the bubble for everything that went wrong after that. It's not like they accidentally became a Walmart supplier and had to churn out bad product for little money to keep up with the new demand. If I remember correctly churning out the plastic and boxing it was at the time 5 or 7% of the MSRP. Even if the success of the LOTR line made them complacent or lazy it's still their fault and not the product's fault. It's like nobody at the company thought about what could happen after the third movie. Like I said above, naive at best.

I always associated the terms boom and bust or bubble with wider economic impact and not just one company (or a few) mismanaging their production.
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka






Gaming isn't really like real estate though, so the "bubble" term doesn't refer to the same thing. As a franchise ages, generally speaking, people get bored and try other things. Most of even the happiest D&D players went to try other RPGs because they wanted to give something new a shot.

So when we're talking about gaming bubbles, we're speaking of games that have a rapid growth cycle but short lifespan, as opposed to those that endure. Could anything have been done to make LoTR endure? I don't know. Not in the traditional way that GW has gotten people to stick with 40k, because you're limited to what's in the Tolkien lore. They can't really upsell people to wyverns, dragons, ever-more powerful (and bigger) heroes and pseudo-deities, to "enhance their gaming experience".

I have actually always thought it amazing that 40k has had the endurance that it does, and that there are people who buy both in dollars and number of models more today than they did decades ago.
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

Voltaire would certainly agree that nothing can endure forever. 40K arguably is showing signs of metal fatigue in the airframe. WHFB of course turns out not to have endured.

GW are trying to make LoTR endure now, though. They have announced they will be supporting it in the future. (Alongside AoS and 40K, making three flagship systems.)

I don't see why LoTR shouldn't do pretty well. The books make it a great licence even without the films, and they do still exist and get shown on TV. The Hobbit, though not as successful as LoTR, actually was pretty successful and also gets shown on TV. (IMO the selling problems with The Hobbit were more to do with GW's marketing strategy than the success of the films.)

GW have a huge range of figures available. The rules apparently are rather good (I haven't read them.) And there certainly is a market for fantasy games apart from WHFB/AoS.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in au
Pustulating Plague Priest




On the Hobbit, aren't we lucky GW didn't release a Dungeon crawler board game for the first Hobbit movie, imagine the poor shape they'd be in after a bubble that size burst.....

There’s a difference between having a hobby and being a narcissist.  
   
Made in es
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine





The Hobbit could have become a successful skirmish game if GW had bothered to give it proper support. The issue is, as of now, GW business practices have evolved to such a point that they simply cannot* give a skirmish game proper support. I believe part of the early success of LoTR was, beyond the hype of the movies, how affordable the plastic kits were. All the initial factions, iirc, had one or two plastic boxes with a good number of decent quality models and nice prices. Also the rules were good and you didn't need a truckload of models to play. So it felt like a welcoming game.

Now look at what happened with The Hobbit. No affordable models on sight, quite the contrary. Not even metal blisters for characters, finecrap instead, and with ridiculous prices stamped on them. Some of the models looked so uninspired that the price tag seemed like an insult, and showed how little the company cared about the product.

I think you could even draw correlations between those two games and the state of GW at the time of their respective releases. LoTR was released during the golden age of the company (late 90s - early 00s), The Hobbit on the other hand seems like a posterboy for all the flaws that have led GW to its current declining and stagnating state: absurd pricing policies, little to no care for their own product, disdain (when not open contempt) towards their customers, etc.

* in theory they can, of course. But they won't. Just look at AoS, the "easy to get into, affordable skirmish successor to Fantasy" as its fans shouted at the beginning. To be fair I guess it can be affordable, if you don't play with GW minis.

Progress is like a herd of pigs: everybody is interested in the produced benefits, but nobody wants to deal with all the resulting gak.

GW customers deserve every bit of outrageous princing they get. 
   
Made in au
Pustulating Plague Priest




Speaking of AoS and GW, are there videos or online articles on how to convert you current ( or what were current) fantasy armies to AoS forces? In detail, I mean, for each race?

There’s a difference between having a hobby and being a narcissist.  
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





 Korinov wrote:
The Hobbit could have become a successful skirmish game if GW had bothered to give it proper support.
I think what killed The Hobbit game is the Goblin Town boxed set being overpriced and underwhelming. When the first movie came out GW released a bunch of plastics and the Goblin Town set, when subsequent movies came out they stopped releasing plastic and instead just released very limited sets of failcast models.

My conclusion is they expected Goblin Town to sell like hotcakes and when it didn't they decided it wasn't worth supporting and didn't even bother releasing plastics for the later movies. They were probably too stupid to realise the reasons it didn't sell.
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero





Rampton, UK

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
 BrookM wrote:
I think the placement of the Sigmarite Warrior was less a show of them thinking it would be a success and more a sign to everybody that they would see this Age of Sigmar thing through and that they are committed to it.
Didn't the Space Marine get put back up in place of the Sigmarine recently? Or was that just a rumour?


The space marine was never taken down, the Sigmarine is in a totally different spot.
   
Made in gb
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






 Rayvon wrote:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:
 BrookM wrote:
I think the placement of the Sigmarite Warrior was less a show of them thinking it would be a success and more a sign to everybody that they would see this Age of Sigmar thing through and that they are committed to it.
Didn't the Space Marine get put back up in place of the Sigmarine recently? Or was that just a rumour?


The space marine was never taken down, the Sigmarine is in a totally different spot.


False. It's in the same spot.






Additionally, I can't find it right now, but there is also a pic doing the rounds of the Space Marine unceremoniously shoved under the stairs somewhere in Warhammer World.


Games Workshop Delenda Est.

Users on ignore- 53.

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in gb
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM





Joyboozer wrote:
Speaking of AoS and GW, are there videos or online articles on how to convert you current ( or what were current) fantasy armies to AoS forces? In detail, I mean, for each race?


There's not much to be done. Go to the GW homepage, scroll to the bottom and choose "Age of Sigmar: Rules" and then select the free PDF of your army. Inside you'll find all the stat-blocks (now called Warscrolls) for every unit you have.

Done. :-)

I'm also rebasing my models onto round/oval bases - but it is not a requirement. And if you're going to be playing WHFB still, or Kings of War, it will likely be easier to leave them on the square bases.

Bye bye Dakkadakka, happy hobbying! I really enjoyed my time on here. Opinions were always my own :-) 
   
Made in nl
[MOD]
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Cozy cockpit of an Archer ARC-5S

 Grimtuff wrote:
Additionally, I can't find it right now, but there is also a pic doing the rounds of the Space Marine unceremoniously shoved under the stairs somewhere in Warhammer World.



Fatum Iustum Stultorum



Fiat justitia ruat caelum

 
   
Made in gb
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






 BrookM wrote:
 Grimtuff wrote:
Additionally, I can't find it right now, but there is also a pic doing the rounds of the Space Marine unceremoniously shoved under the stairs somewhere in Warhammer World.


Thankyou. I bow to your superior Google-fu.


Games Workshop Delenda Est.

Users on ignore- 53.

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in au
Pustulating Plague Priest




 Bottle wrote:
Joyboozer wrote:
Speaking of AoS and GW, are there videos or online articles on how to convert you current ( or what were current) fantasy armies to AoS forces? In detail, I mean, for each race?


There's not much to be done. Go to the GW homepage, scroll to the bottom and choose "Age of Sigmar: Rules" and then select the free PDF of your army. Inside you'll find all the stat-blocks (now called Warscrolls) for every unit you have.

Done. :-)

I'm also rebasing my models onto round/oval bases - but it is not a requirement. And if you're going to be playing WHFB still, or Kings of War, it will likely be easier to leave them on the square bases.

What size bases are you using for larger minis? Is there a handy base size conversion chart?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 BrookM wrote:
 Grimtuff wrote:
Additionally, I can't find it right now, but there is also a pic doing the rounds of the Space Marine unceremoniously shoved under the stairs somewhere in Warhammer World.

He's clearly peeing.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/28 12:24:58


There’s a difference between having a hobby and being a narcissist.  
   
Made in gb
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM





Joyboozer wrote:
 Bottle wrote:
Joyboozer wrote:
Speaking of AoS and GW, are there videos or online articles on how to convert you current ( or what were current) fantasy armies to AoS forces? In detail, I mean, for each race?


There's not much to be done. Go to the GW homepage, scroll to the bottom and choose "Age of Sigmar: Rules" and then select the free PDF of your army. Inside you'll find all the stat-blocks (now called Warscrolls) for every unit you have.

Done. :-)

I'm also rebasing my models onto round/oval bases - but it is not a requirement. And if you're going to be playing WHFB still, or Kings of War, it will likely be easier to leave them on the square bases.

What size bases are you using for larger minis? Is there a handy base size conversion chart?


I don't have a chart, but the rule of thumb is to go for a circle/oval base slightly larger than their square so:
20mm Square = 25mm Round
25mm Square = 32mm Round
40mm Square = 50mm Round

Etc etc.

But it is best to play around and find a base size that fits best. For example my Dwarven infantry go onto 25mm rounds but I have put Grim Burlokkson on a 32mm as he is so bulky. Some of the End Times chaos infantry (like the Rot Bringers and Skulltakers) look best on 40mm rounds as they are Stormcast size and looked a bit small of the 40mm squares they came on before.

Rule of cool basically.

Bye bye Dakkadakka, happy hobbying! I really enjoyed my time on here. Opinions were always my own :-) 
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

I actually think they could/should have repurposed the LotR rules for WHFB and/or 40k. Didn't they also come out with a larger version of the game for bigger battles? I remember the original set but stopped playing after that.

- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in us
The New Miss Macross!





Deep Frier of Mount Doom

WayneTheGame wrote:
I actually think they could/should have repurposed the LotR rules for WHFB and/or 40k. Didn't they also come out with a larger version of the game for bigger battles? I remember the original set but stopped playing after that.


I suppose the "justification" spin against that would be to not invalidate all the codexes at the same time like in 3rd edition... they'd rather do so over 2 years of 6th edition by rehashing largely the same products with a 50%+ price increase with the switch to hardcover and then rehash the rehashed books again in 7th 1-2 years later. I would have preferred a custom built from the bottom up ruleset with some sense instead every 3 editions. Instead, we've had to rebuy mostly the same stuff just for the priveledge of cramming in a ton of stuff that doesn't belong in this scale of conflict.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/28 14:51:19


 
   
 
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