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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/01 16:09:41
Subject: Melee weapons in the grim darkness of far future. Maybe not that stupid after all?
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Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps
Phoenix, AZ, USA
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Peregrine wrote:
The difference is that, in the real world, we have this thing called collateral damage to worry about. Even "evil" armies in the real world are reluctant to blow up a building full of civilians to kill one enemy. But in 40k there is no such thing as civilians. You're going to exterminate everyone anyway, and killing them as collateral damage in an artillery bombardment just means you have fewer people to round up and execute once the battle is over. In 40k every faction, except maybe the Tau, is going to skip straight to "bomb the whole city into rubble and build a new one later".
There is one real world military willing to drop a building on civilians just because a possible "bad guy" used a cellphone near that building, and that's the US Military. Real life currently has the "good guys" doing more evil than the "bad guys".
SJ
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“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.”
- Ephesians 6:12
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/01 17:02:01
Subject: Melee weapons in the grim darkness of far future. Maybe not that stupid after all?
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Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets
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Peregrine wrote:geargutz wrote:there are important things in the setting, we cant just level a building while the important thing is inside it.
And guess what: the enemy knows that too. The enemy is also not concerned about collateral damage as a result of killing you. That factory the admech wants to take back from the CSM? The CSM set a nuke on a dead man's switch in the basement, and if you somehow manage to kill them you set off the nuke and destroy the factory anyway. Everyone but the Tau (and the Eldar, in the rare cases where they're defending Eldar territory) should be using scorched earth tactics where any losing battle results in immediate use of WMDs to deny the objective to the enemy. It shouldn't be possible to take objectives intact, so you might as well destroy them from a distance without risking your troops.
this is amazing, truly amazing, it is almost fascinating, i am in aw of the raw amounts of idiocy that infects some in this playerbase.
when some just cant acknowledge that there is something in 40k that is worth fighting for, whether it be an important forge world, a relic of a bygone age, the bloody golden throne of tera itself, and would rather drop the bombs.
congratulation sir, you have singlehandedly out shined the worst of the worst jerks in 40k, inquisition, please, they got nothing on you. chaos gods, they tip their hats to you.
we should follow this mans example and throw common sense out the window. why on earth should we care about the history and fluff of 40k, it obviously doesn't follow the "genius" of this good sir. gw should be ashamed, they obviously don't know the setting as well as peregrine. i will shed a tear for all those who will never get a chance to understands this man pure genius.
Automatically Appended Next Post: jeffersonian000 wrote: Peregrine wrote:
The difference is that, in the real world, we have this thing called collateral damage to worry about. Even "evil" armies in the real world are reluctant to blow up a building full of civilians to kill one enemy. But in 40k there is no such thing as civilians. You're going to exterminate everyone anyway, and killing them as collateral damage in an artillery bombardment just means you have fewer people to round up and execute once the battle is over. In 40k every faction, except maybe the Tau, is going to skip straight to "bomb the whole city into rubble and build a new one later".
There is one real world military willing to drop a building on civilians just because a possible "bad guy" used a cellphone near that building, and that's the US Military. Real life currently has the "good guys" doing more evil than the "bad guys".
SJ
hey, political commentary, thats never been done on this forum b4.....
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/01 17:05:47
"dont put all yer boyz in one trukk" "umless its dredds, then take as much uf those as possible"
geargutz interpretation of the 'umies "eggs in one basket" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/01 17:27:43
Subject: Melee weapons in the grim darkness of far future. Maybe not that stupid after all?
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Heroic Senior Officer
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geargutz wrote:
oh, if only forum debates could be handled in the orky way, just a trot over to the nearest fight pit and a few teef missing later then we will see who's right.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/01 20:43:11
Subject: Melee weapons in the grim darkness of far future. Maybe not that stupid after all?
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Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets
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Bobthehero wrote:geargutz wrote:
oh, if only forum debates could be handled in the orky way, just a trot over to the nearest fight pit and a few teef missing later then we will see who's right.

For someone who hates ork kultur, your more than willing to use the ork emote....that's because green is da best, even those Dat hate dah orks kant deny that
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"dont put all yer boyz in one trukk" "umless its dredds, then take as much uf those as possible"
geargutz interpretation of the 'umies "eggs in one basket" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/01 21:02:48
Subject: Melee weapons in the grim darkness of far future. Maybe not that stupid after all?
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Heroic Senior Officer
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Because its the only thing that's available on the site.
And, keep speaking like an Ork, it will surely help make me take you seriously and not simply put you in the ignore list, surely sure, Mcsurely
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/01 23:12:32
Subject: Melee weapons in the grim darkness of far future. Maybe not that stupid after all?
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Douglas Bader
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geargutz wrote:this is amazing, truly amazing, it is almost fascinating, i am in aw of the raw amounts of idiocy that infects some in this playerbase.
when some just cant acknowledge that there is something in 40k that is worth fighting for, whether it be an important forge world, a relic of a bygone age, the bloody golden throne of tera itself, and would rather drop the bombs.
Nice job ignoring Rule #1 of the forums, I'm sure you'll have a long and productive career here.
And you still aren't paying attention to what I'm saying. Let's say you're a CSM lord. You've just captured the golden Throne, but loyalist forces are closing in and you probably aren't going to be able to hold your prize. You have two choices:
1) Fight to defend the Throne, but make sure you don't damage it and allow the Imperial forces to take it intact if you lose the fight.
or
2) Set a bomb on a dead man's switch on the Throne, ensuring that if you lose the fight all the Imperium will be able to take back from you is a pile of useless scrap metal.
Now, proper traitor that you are you know that the only thing worse than failing to hold the Throne would be letting the enemy recover it. So you set your bomb and ensure that they can't. Now look at it from the point of view of the Imperial side. You know that the traitors will never let you take the Throne intact, so you have two choices:
1) Nuke the whole area, destroying the Throne and the traitors with it but not risking any casualties to your own army.
or
2) Fight to take it back, suffering heavy casualties, only to watch the bomb explode and destroy the Throne anyway.
You know you have zero chance of taking it back intact, so you might as well cut your losses and just kill the enemy from a safe distance.
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There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/01 23:34:52
Subject: Melee weapons in the grim darkness of far future. Maybe not that stupid after all?
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Trazyn's Museum Curator
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Peregrine wrote:geargutz wrote:this is amazing, truly amazing, it is almost fascinating, i am in aw of the raw amounts of idiocy that infects some in this playerbase.
when some just cant acknowledge that there is something in 40k that is worth fighting for, whether it be an important forge world, a relic of a bygone age, the bloody golden throne of tera itself, and would rather drop the bombs.
Nice job ignoring Rule #1 of the forums, I'm sure you'll have a long and productive career here.
And you still aren't paying attention to what I'm saying. Let's say you're a CSM lord. You've just captured the golden Throne, but loyalist forces are closing in and you probably aren't going to be able to hold your prize. You have two choices:
1) Fight to defend the Throne, but make sure you don't damage it and allow the Imperial forces to take it intact if you lose the fight.
or
2) Set a bomb on a dead man's switch on the Throne, ensuring that if you lose the fight all the Imperium will be able to take back from you is a pile of useless scrap metal.
Now, proper traitor that you are you know that the only thing worse than failing to hold the Throne would be letting the enemy recover it. So you set your bomb and ensure that they can't. Now look at it from the point of view of the Imperial side. You know that the traitors will never let you take the Throne intact, so you have two choices:
1) Nuke the whole area, destroying the Throne and the traitors with it but not risking any casualties to your own army.
or
2) Fight to take it back, suffering heavy casualties, only to watch the bomb explode and destroy the Throne anyway.
You know you have zero chance of taking it back intact, so you might as well cut your losses and just kill the enemy from a safe distance.
You might have chosen a bad example, because the IoM will do whatever it takes to retake the golden throne.
No Imperial general would ever considering bombing the Golden Throne, and any general who does will most certainly be summarily executed for treason and heresy by a nearby commissar / inquisitor / priest.
Now, if it were some Forge World, that would be more reasonable; that's what exterminatus is for, to destroy assets that cannot be retaken from the enemy.
The Ad Mech won't be happy, but even they would properly accept that its better for one of their factories to be destroyed than in the hands of dirty heretics.
There may be Red Tape, and a very long inspection for possible heresy.
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What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/02 02:14:43
Subject: Melee weapons in the grim darkness of far future. Maybe not that stupid after all?
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Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets
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so if the only players available around you are ork players then you would play against them?
Bobthehero wrote:And, keep speaking like an Ork, it will surely help make me take you seriously and not simply put you in the ignore list, surely sure, Mcsurely
hmm, im not sure if that is supposed to be a positive or negative for me.....i kant be shure, but i tink i dun dont kare
Peregrine wrote:Nice job ignoring Rule #1 of the forums, I'm sure you'll have a long and productive career here.
sorry for being rude...but that doesnt keep me from being right.
CthuluIsSpy wrote:You might have chosen a bad example, because the IoM will do whatever it takes to retake the golden throne.
No Imperial general would ever considering bombing the Golden Throne, and any general who does will most certainly be summarily executed for treason and heresy by a nearby commissar / inquisitor / priest.
Now, if it were some Forge World, that would be more reasonable; that's what exterminatus is for, to destroy assets that cannot be retaken from the enemy.
The Ad Mech won't be happy, but even they would properly accept that its better for one of their factories to be destroyed than in the hands of dirty heretics.
There may be Red Tape, and a very long inspection for possible heresy.
this guy, this guy understands you cant just blow up everything, he needs a promotion EXALTED (not being sarcastic here).
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"dont put all yer boyz in one trukk" "umless its dredds, then take as much uf those as possible"
geargutz interpretation of the 'umies "eggs in one basket" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/02 08:11:08
Subject: Melee weapons in the grim darkness of far future. Maybe not that stupid after all?
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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A better way to look at this whole issue is to think about what missile weapons you want your troops not to carry.
A bayonet is always useful for a general tool. It also turns a rifle into a spear and gives the infantryman a sense of aggression necessary for combat.
But any larger melee weapon, especially a 40K power assisted model, will need to replace some of the infantryman's carrying capacity for missile weapons and ammunition.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/02 08:14:33
Subject: Melee weapons in the grim darkness of far future. Maybe not that stupid after all?
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Trazyn's Museum Curator
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Kilkrazy wrote:A better way to look at this whole issue is to think about what missile weapons you want your troops not to carry.
A bayonet is always useful for a general tool. It also turns a rifle into a spear and gives the infantryman a sense of aggression necessary for combat.
But any larger melee weapon, especially a 40K power assisted model, will need to replace some of the infantryman's carrying capacity for missile weapons and ammunition.
Not necessarily. Power Armor could allow one to carry both, due to the increase in strength.
Not that they do; Tactical marines do not carry swords.
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What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/02 08:26:33
Subject: Melee weapons in the grim darkness of far future. Maybe not that stupid after all?
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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Power armour's increased strength would allow you to carry a heavier, more powerful rifle with more ammunition, and a bayonet, instead of a power sword.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/02 09:26:34
Subject: Melee weapons in the grim darkness of far future. Maybe not that stupid after all?
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Guardsman with Flashlight
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Wulfmar wrote:Thinking about Space Marines being in space, their boltguns rely on combustion to propel the slug - which requires oxygen. Do GW expect us to assume there is some explosive propellant / element unknown to us that can combust in the vacuum of space?
Well Most rounds have some kind of oxidizer in them that's why you can fire a handgun under water. Just google it or click the link. Also if your rifle is built correctly it should not have any air being sucked in after the bolt closes. if it did the seal with the round would be weak and would make the muzzle velocity slower, if you just put a round in the oven and turn it on it will do much much less damage and could even be less than lethal unlike if you place a gun in the oven with a round in the chamber. Science is fun.
http://www.livescience.com/18588-shoot-gun-space.html
(Legal disclaimer Don't put ammo or guns in the oven....just no. also dont shoot under water, or in space, or with out adult super vision, or if you are kind of accident prone... Or just don't do anything dangerous at all ever. if you do anything that results in harm it's your fault.)
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/02 13:20:48
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