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2015/12/23 23:58:27
Subject: Man sucessfully defends home and kills intruder, brother, and housemate
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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From the "in how many ways can you screw up" department:
http://news.yahoo.com/cops-man-killed-home-intruder-brother-housemate-181729903.html?nf=1
PITTSBURGH (AP) — A former juvenile delinquent fatally shot an armed robber who broke into his apartment through a bathroom window and accidentally shot and killed his visiting teenage brother and his housemate while exchanging shots with the intruder, a district attorney said Wednesday.
Meiko Devaughn has been charged with illegally possessing a firearm, drug possession and receiving stolen property.
Devaughn, who police said was in the "drug business," shot at 25-year-old Kadeem Williams after Williams climbed into the apartment Devaughn shared with Akeilah Solomon at about 3:20 a.m. Monday, said Stephen Zappala Jr., the Allegheny County district attorney.
As the two fired shots at each other, Devaughn, 22, also struck the 20-year-old Solomon and his 16-year-old brother, Jaimill Kenney, with bullets, killing them. Williams was mortally wounded in the exchange but managed to run outside before dying, Zappala said.
It's not clear whether Devaughn will face charges for the shootings, Zappala said, because the investigation is continuing.
"We have to know all the evidence first," the prosecutor said at the scene Tuesday. "You're entitled to protect yourself."
The county medical examiner determined Solomon was shot once in the head, while Kenney and Williams were shot once each in the chest. Kenney was visiting his brother.
Devaughn was adjudicated delinquent, the juvenile court equivalent of a conviction, in 2009 on charges including robbery and aggravated assault. That's why it was illegal for Devaughn to possess the .40-caliber Glock pistol he used, according to a criminal complaint. The gun had been stolen from neighboring Butler County.
Police believe Williams was trying to rob Devaughn because $1,000 worth of marijuana and $14,000 cash were found in the apartment, police said.
Zappala said investigators believe at least one other intruder may have been involved. They didn't find a gun near Williams' body outside the apartment complex but did find shells from a different caliber weapon at the scene, he said.
Online court records don't list an attorney for Devaughn, who was in custody awaiting arraignment Wednesday.
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2015/12/24 00:13:35
Subject: Man sucessfully defends home and kills intruder, brother, and housemate
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Fixture of Dakka
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Illiegal gun owned by a drug dealer with a record? No surprises how this turned out.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/24 00:14:55
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2015/12/24 00:14:47
Subject: Man sucessfully defends home and kills intruder, brother, and housemate
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Most Glorious Grey Seer
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So, what are we supposed to discuss here?
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2015/12/24 00:15:56
Subject: Man sucessfully defends home and kills intruder, brother, and housemate
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Assassin with Black Lotus Poison
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Whether or not "defending yourself from a burglar" is a valid defence for killing innocent bystanders?
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The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
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2015/12/24 00:16:33
Subject: Man sucessfully defends home and kills intruder, brother, and housemate
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Fixture of Dakka
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Not really much to talk about. Just life in seamier side of the big city.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/24 00:33:38
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2015/12/24 00:17:59
Subject: Man sucessfully defends home and kills intruder, brother, and housemate
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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2015/12/24 00:18:48
Subject: Man sucessfully defends home and kills intruder, brother, and housemate
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Fixture of Dakka
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"The Omnissiah is my Moderati" |
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2015/12/24 00:20:05
Subject: Man sucessfully defends home and kills intruder, brother, and housemate
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Most Glorious Grey Seer
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What part of "$1,000 worth of marijuana and $14,000 cash were found in the apartment" and " illegal for Devaughn to possess the .40-caliber Glock pistol he used <snip> stolen from neighboring Butler County." allows this to be a test of the castle doctrine?
How about renaming the thread to something more accurate to the story like, "Drug dealer kills friend and relative in shootout with burgler."
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/12/24 00:22:00
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2015/12/24 00:22:32
Subject: Man sucessfully defends home and kills intruder, brother, and housemate
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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 d-usa wrote:From the "in how many ways can you screw up" department:
Was the man successful in a "we had to destroy the village to save it" way?
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2015/12/24 00:24:33
Subject: Man sucessfully defends home and kills intruder, brother, and housemate
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Assassin with Black Lotus Poison
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Was just looking through the pennsylvania stand your ground laws and it says you lose the cover of the law if you're involved in another crime at the time. So illegal possession of a firearm and drugs render any defence under SYG void? Seems fair enough, two charges of manslaughter on the way.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/24 00:25:48
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
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2015/12/24 00:32:14
Subject: Man sucessfully defends home and kills intruder, brother, and housemate
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Fixture of Dakka
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 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Was just looking through the pennsylvania stand your ground laws and it says you lose the cover of the law if you're involved in another crime at the time.
So illegal possession of a firearm and drugs render any defence under SYG void? Seems fair enough, two charges of manslaughter on the way.
Agreed. Just a scumbag getting ready to be absent for a while thanks to multiple infractions of the law, capped by killing two people with an illegally possessed weapon.
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2015/12/24 00:40:58
Subject: Man sucessfully defends home and kills intruder, brother, and housemate
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Most Glorious Grey Seer
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So, are we done here?
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2015/12/24 00:41:18
Subject: Man sucessfully defends home and kills intruder, brother, and housemate
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Lord Commander in a Plush Chair
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Citing 'self defence' doesn't let you abdicate all responsibility for your actions.
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2015/12/24 00:44:15
Subject: Man sucessfully defends home and kills intruder, brother, and housemate
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Welll, we can continue the "just two criminals killing each other and taking out other people with them, nothing going on, keep on going" trend and pretend there is nothing to talk about here.
Or we can also talk about the fact that, at least in this case, it appears that:
- Having a gun doesn't automatically make it safer
- Shooting at a bad guy doesn't automatically make you safer
- Shooting at a bad guy can result in innocent people getting shot
If you ignore the whole "bad guy had a gun he shouldn't have had" thing you could, actually, have a productive discussion about the use of a firearm in the defense of your home.
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2015/12/24 00:44:34
Subject: Man sucessfully defends home and kills intruder, brother, and housemate
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Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta
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Relapse wrote:Illiegal gun owned by a drug dealer with a record? No surprises how this turned out.
how does the legality of the gun influence the outcome? We both know there are hundreds of cases where legally owned firearms are used to defend the castle while shooting the family that lives there.
I heard a noise, I shot them, oh gak it was my wife/kid/dog.
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2015/12/24 00:47:01
Subject: Man sucessfully defends home and kills intruder, brother, and housemate
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[MOD]
Not as Good as a Minion
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Enough with the 1 line "this thread has no purpose" posts. That's spammy, which is against the rules of the forum, and adds a grand total of nothing to the discussion.
If you don't think there is a valid discussion to be had...then go to another thread.
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I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own... |
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2015/12/24 00:57:42
Subject: Man sucessfully defends home and kills intruder, brother, and housemate
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Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces
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Well... He did kill the intruder!
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Error 404: Interesting signature not found
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2015/12/24 01:06:42
Subject: Man sucessfully defends home and kills intruder, brother, and housemate
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Colonel
This Is Where the Fish Lives
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No need to dig back at things I asked to be stopped, motyak
d-usa wrote:Welll, we can continue the "just two criminals killing each other and taking out other people with them, nothing going on, keep on going" trend and pretend there is nothing to talk about here.
Or we can also talk about the fact that, at least in this case, it appears that:
- Having a gun doesn't automatically make it safer
- Shooting at a bad guy doesn't automatically make you safer
- Shooting at a bad guy can result in innocent people getting shot
If you ignore the whole "bad guy had a gun he shouldn't have had" thing you could, actually, have a productive discussion about the use of a firearm in the defense of your home.
Those are all interesting points, D.
Even though this guy was pretty much a criminal, does that mean he doesn't have the right to defend himself?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/24 03:55:49
 d-usa wrote:"When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
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2015/12/24 01:17:23
Subject: Man sucessfully defends home and kills intruder, brother, and housemate
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
Even though this guy was pretty much a criminal, does that mean he doesn't have the right to defend himself?
He probably would have been clear to defend himself if he bashed the bad guys head in with a baseball bat or something, also would have had less of a risk of accidentally bashing in his housemate and his brother in the fight. Probably also could have stabbed him or killed him with some sort of Home Alone style home defense system. He would have had to clear out his drugs and cash before the cops responded to his call though  .
My take on this is pretty much just the "keep a gun around to protect yourself and your family in case somebody breaks into your house" aspect of the story as an example of how those kind of scenarios can potentially turn out.
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2015/12/24 01:27:10
Subject: Man sucessfully defends home and kills intruder, brother, and housemate
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Fixture of Dakka
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sirlynchmob wrote:Relapse wrote:Illiegal gun owned by a drug dealer with a record? No surprises how this turned out.
how does the legality of the gun influence the outcome? We both know there are hundreds of cases where legally owned firearms are used to defend the castle while shooting the family that lives there.
I heard a noise, I shot them, oh gak it was my wife/kid/dog.
We also know there are literally tens of thousands of cases yearly where alcohol contributes to someone getting killed when they're out for a drive, yet the media loses no chance to broadcast gun related deaths while pretty much ignoring those caused by alcohol. The media goes on to glorify alcohol use, in fact, even though far more people die because of it and 2 out of 3 domestic abuse cases are alcohol related. This is why I get jaded about "guns iz evil" threads.
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2015/12/24 01:33:05
Subject: Man sucessfully defends home and kills intruder, brother, and housemate
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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d-usa wrote:- Having a gun doesn't automatically make it safer
It's a gun, not a magic talisman
d-usa wrote:- Shooting at a bad guy doesn't automatically make you safer
See above
d-usa wrote:- Shooting at a bad guy can result in innocent people getting shot
If you do not pay attention to the Four Rules;
- All guns are always loaded. (Treat them so!)
- Never point the gun at anything you are not willing to destroy.
- Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on target (and you have made the decision to shoot).
- Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.
ScootyPuffJunior wrote:Even though this guy was pretty much a criminal, does that mean he doesn't have the right to defend himself?
He absolutely has a right to defend himself. He just does not have the right to own a gun
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2015/12/24 01:33:30
Subject: Man sucessfully defends home and kills intruder, brother, and housemate
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Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord
Inside Yvraine
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Relapse wrote:sirlynchmob wrote:Relapse wrote:Illiegal gun owned by a drug dealer with a record? No surprises how this turned out.
how does the legality of the gun influence the outcome? We both know there are hundreds of cases where legally owned firearms are used to defend the castle while shooting the family that lives there. I heard a noise, I shot them, oh gak it was my wife/kid/dog.
We also know there are literally tens of thousands of cases yearly where alcohol contributes to someone getting killed when they're out for a drive, yet the media loses no chance to broadcast gun related deaths while pretty much ignoring those caused by alcohol. The media goes on to glorify alcohol use, in fact, even though far more people die because of it and 2 out of 3 domestic abuse cases are alcohol related. This is why I get jaded about "guns iz evil" threads.
Are you as jaded about "terrorism iz evil" threads, considering that death-by-terrorist only accounts for like half of 1% of all American deaths? It's interesting how the "b-but more people are killed by X!" argument only ever rears its head when the object under scrutiny is guns.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/12/24 01:35:08
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2015/12/24 01:35:19
Subject: Man sucessfully defends home and kills intruder, brother, and housemate
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Dakka Veteran
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This shows that when you get a gun you should also get training. It sounds like both shooters were thugs, probably holding there guns sideways or whatever the fad is now a days. Of course that doesn't change the fact that he wasn't even allowed to have the gun in the first place.
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2015/12/24 01:42:15
Subject: Man sucessfully defends home and kills intruder, brother, and housemate
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Fixture of Dakka
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 BlaxicanX wrote:Relapse wrote:sirlynchmob wrote:Relapse wrote:Illiegal gun owned by a drug dealer with a record? No surprises how this turned out.
how does the legality of the gun influence the outcome? We both know there are hundreds of cases where legally owned firearms are used to defend the castle while shooting the family that lives there.
I heard a noise, I shot them, oh gak it was my wife/kid/dog.
We also know there are literally tens of thousands of cases yearly where alcohol contributes to someone getting killed when they're out for a drive, yet the media loses no chance to broadcast gun related deaths while pretty much ignoring those caused by alcohol. The media goes on to glorify alcohol use, in fact, even though far more people die because of it and 2 out of 3 domestic abuse cases are alcohol related. This is why I get jaded about "guns iz evil" threads.
Are you as jaded about "terrorism iz evil" threads, considering that death-by-terrorist only accounts for like half of 1% of all American deaths?
It's interesting how the "b-but more people are killed by X!" argument only ever rears its head when the object under scrutiny is guns.
The fact that far more harm comes to society from alcohol than guns is a matter of statistical record. The fact that the media goes out of its' way to vilify guns and gun owners to the point of publishing the addresses of gun owners, while advertising alcohol is laughable
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2015/12/24 01:44:28
Subject: Man sucessfully defends home and kills intruder, brother, and housemate
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Colonel
This Is Where the Fish Lives
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 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
- All guns are always loaded. (Treat them so!)
- Never point the gun at anything you are not willing to destroy.
- Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on target (and you have made the decision to shoot).
- Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.
In a perfect, controlled world these rules would prevent needless deaths. Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world and as you've stated, a gun isn't a magic talisman.
ScootyPuffJunior wrote:Even though this guy was pretty much a criminal, does that mean he doesn't have the right to defend himself?
He absolutely has a right to defend himself. He just does not have the right to own a gun
But the other, badder guys have guns. Shouldn't he need a gun to defend himself against them?
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d-usa wrote:"When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
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2015/12/24 01:49:41
Subject: Man sucessfully defends home and kills intruder, brother, and housemate
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:But the other, badder guys have guns. Shouldn't he need a gun to defend himself against them?
He is legally disqualified from owning a firearm and actively engaged in criminal activity.
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2015/12/24 01:51:07
Subject: Man sucessfully defends home and kills intruder, brother, and housemate
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Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord
Inside Yvraine
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Relapse wrote: BlaxicanX wrote:Relapse wrote:sirlynchmob wrote:Relapse wrote:Illiegal gun owned by a drug dealer with a record? No surprises how this turned out.
how does the legality of the gun influence the outcome? We both know there are hundreds of cases where legally owned firearms are used to defend the castle while shooting the family that lives there. I heard a noise, I shot them, oh gak it was my wife/kid/dog.
We also know there are literally tens of thousands of cases yearly where alcohol contributes to someone getting killed when they're out for a drive, yet the media loses no chance to broadcast gun related deaths while pretty much ignoring those caused by alcohol. The media goes on to glorify alcohol use, in fact, even though far more people die because of it and 2 out of 3 domestic abuse cases are alcohol related. This is why I get jaded about "guns iz evil" threads.
Are you as jaded about "terrorism iz evil" threads, considering that death-by-terrorist only accounts for like half of 1% of all American deaths? It's interesting how the "b-but more people are killed by X!" argument only ever rears its head when the object under scrutiny is guns.
The fact that far more harm comes to society from alcohol than guns is a matter of statistical record. The fact that the media goes out of its' way to vilify guns and gun owners to the point of publishing the addresses of gun owners, while advertising alcohol is laughable
The fact that far more harm comes to society from guns then terrorism is also a matter of statistical record. I can see that you're trying to squirrel out of addressing why you don't have the same attitude toward terrorism as you do gun crime, but I'm just not going to let you.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/12/24 01:53:09
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2015/12/24 01:56:34
Subject: Man sucessfully defends home and kills intruder, brother, and housemate
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Fixture of Dakka
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BlaxicanX wrote:Relapse wrote: BlaxicanX wrote:Relapse wrote:sirlynchmob wrote:Relapse wrote:Illiegal gun owned by a drug dealer with a record? No surprises how this turned out.
how does the legality of the gun influence the outcome? We both know there are hundreds of cases where legally owned firearms are used to defend the castle while shooting the family that lives there.
I heard a noise, I shot them, oh gak it was my wife/kid/dog.
We also know there are literally tens of thousands of cases yearly where alcohol contributes to someone getting killed when they're out for a drive, yet the media loses no chance to broadcast gun related deaths while pretty much ignoring those caused by alcohol. The media goes on to glorify alcohol use, in fact, even though far more people die because of it and 2 out of 3 domestic abuse cases are alcohol related. This is why I get jaded about "guns iz evil" threads.
Are you as jaded about "terrorism iz evil" threads, considering that death-by-terrorist only accounts for like half of 1% of all American deaths?
It's interesting how the "b-but more people are killed by X!" argument only ever rears its head when the object under scrutiny is guns.
The fact that far more harm comes to society from alcohol than guns is a matter of statistical record. The fact that the media goes out of its' way to vilify guns and gun owners to the point of publishing the addresses of gun owners, while advertising alcohol is laughable
The fact that far more harm comes to society from guns then terrorism is also a matter of statistical record.
I can see that you're trying to squirrel out of addressing why you don't have the same attitude toward terrorism as you do gun crime, but I'm just not going to let you.
I'm not trying to squirrel out of anything, and it seems like you're trying to tell people I support terrorism. If that's the case, you and I will have some serious difficulties with each other.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/24 02:03:07
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2015/12/24 02:02:26
Subject: Man sucessfully defends home and kills intruder, brother, and housemate
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Colonel
This Is Where the Fish Lives
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Dreadclaw69 wrote: ScootyPuffJunior wrote:But the other, badder guys have guns. Shouldn't he need a gun to defend himself against them?
He is legally disqualified from owning a firearm and actively engaged in criminal activity.
Allegedly engaged in criminal activity.
And really, he sounds like an entrepreneur that was defending his home and the benefits of his hard work from someone that was seeking to rob him.
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d-usa wrote:"When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
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2015/12/24 02:02:49
Subject: Man sucessfully defends home and kills intruder, brother, and housemate
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Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta
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Relapse wrote:sirlynchmob wrote:Relapse wrote:Illiegal gun owned by a drug dealer with a record? No surprises how this turned out.
how does the legality of the gun influence the outcome? We both know there are hundreds of cases where legally owned firearms are used to defend the castle while shooting the family that lives there.
I heard a noise, I shot them, oh gak it was my wife/kid/dog.
We also know there are literally tens of thousands of cases yearly where alcohol contributes to someone getting killed when they're out for a drive, yet the media loses no chance to broadcast gun related deaths while pretty much ignoring those caused by alcohol. The media goes on to glorify alcohol use, in fact, even though far more people die because of it and 2 out of 3 domestic abuse cases are alcohol related. This is why I get jaded about "guns iz evil" threads.
but the alcohol problem is well addressed, we have many organizations that platform against drunk driving. MADD, DADD, SADD, ETC. they also show commercials about DUI checkpoints and how they can ruin your life. And we actually passed laws and regulations holding bar owners accountable, setting lower BAC levels, and having DUI checkpoints. laws and regulations are saving lives.
Some fun facts for you:
the reason 2 out of 3 people die in domestic abuse cases is because there are guns in the house.
this year in america more people will die from gun violence than from all car fatalities.
the war against alcohol is winning, while the blind eye is turned towards gun violence.
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