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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/12/31 12:50:33
Subject: Tactics for new necron player
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Been Around the Block
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Hello folks!
Last time i played warhammer was 3 or 4 years ago when i bought my very first army and had 1-2 games with it learning the rules. I loved it but had to quit due to RL cirfumstances. Now, years later, im back and ready to get my hands dirty. I read the rulebook a little to refresh memory, made an army list (with help from reddit and dakka) and got my boxes that i will start assembling and painting very soon. I plan to spend quite a bit of time reading and rereading the book to make sure i know all the rules and stuff, but my concern is that i have no idea what to do with my units in terms of tactics. I.e. should i leave X in defense or advance with it, should i flank with Y or keep it back for counter attacks, etc etc.
I have plenty of time until im gonna play, and i know i will learn what to do and what not to do as i play more, but i just wanted to ask - given the list that i will write below, and keeping in mind that i am absolutely new (and will be playing casually), what basic tactics should i be using in my games? This relates to both general tactics (stay in cover /avoid cover/ ignore cover /destroy cover / cover is a hallucination) and necron specific tactica (warriors suck/rock/are average at doing X). I know there is a dedicated necron tactica thread, and i have read it extensively, buf it seems to deal more with a kind of advanced tactics discussion, while im more interested in basics.
Thank you all in advance, and happy new years!
My list: 1500 decurion
Overlord 80
immortals 85
2x warriors 260
3 tomb blades with 3 nebulas, 3 vanes and 3 beamers 72.
Ghost ark 105
D lord with scythe, shifter, phylactery and scarabs 180
3 + 3 + 3 destroyers 360
2 heavy destroyers 100
Wraiths with 3 whips 129
scarabs 60
spyder with claw and gloom 65
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/12/31 16:25:43
Subject: Tactics for new necron player
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Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba
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Yep, your decurion seems to be an order, you may now join the ranks of the identical legion of Necron lists.
Tactically speaking, here are the most important tips:
-remember to move your infantry 6" directly towards the enemy army each turn
-Remember to check the range to see if you get 2 rapid fire shots per turn or 1 on your weapons
-Don't forget whether you're rolling the save, the not-FNP, the rerolled save, or the rerolled not-FNP Rerolling reroll.
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"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/12/31 22:11:04
Subject: Tactics for new necron player
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Regular Dakkanaut
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List looks decent, 3 wraiths is a little light though, would suggest getting 4 at least.
D lord has some meh wargear, IWND isn't that great on him, sure if your lucky it can turn games but on average its only going to regen 1 maybe 2 wounds if he survives the whole game. Drop the MSS they are just a waste of points.
One tip for the spyder, is since he's needed in the harvest for it to be effective your enemy will target it first 100% of the time. Putting upgrades on it won't help it is going to die in the first few turns so it wont get great value out of its wargear.
So if you drop the phylactry and scarabs you save 25pts and the claw and gloom save another 15pts. So you have 40pts which should get you another wraith. And since you had 4pts left over you can even give the 4th wraith a whip.
That's how I would optimize your list, but you might not have a spare wraith. In which case I'd suggest spreading the points out by giving the overlord a warscythe(it's still really good on him as an assault deterrent, since he can win combats alone with it). And then adding in 2 warriors and removing 1 shield vanes from your tomb blades(they get equipment individually and so they don't all need the 3+ save to be just as effective).
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Psienesis wrote:While that's possible, it's also stupid to build your game around your customers being fething morons |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/12/31 22:32:47
Subject: Tactics for new necron player
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Been Around the Block
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Thank you punisher, but im going to stick with this list for now for various reasons. I was mostly looking to get some actual gameplay advice.
Thanks anyways!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/02 16:30:51
Subject: Tactics for new necron player
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Proud Triarch Praetorian
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Anakonda wrote:Thank you punisher, but im going to stick with this list for now for various reasons. I was mostly looking to get some actual gameplay advice.
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You might want to explain your "reasons" for why you intended on keeping the worst piece of wargear in the codex ( MSS) despite being given very good suggestions on how to switch it out for something genuinely useful before we go any further (after all, why bother giving advice if the OP is just going to disregard it)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/04 06:04:06
Subject: Tactics for new necron player
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Norn Queen
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My understanding of necrons is mostly to avoid cc with the majority of the units. Some few are built for it and they are awesome. But the others should mostly be implacable gun lines. You will want to keep them moving forward and grabbing objectives. The tomb blade work best as harassment and ignoring cover saves.
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These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/04 11:06:02
Subject: Tactics for new necron player
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Been Around the Block
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skoffs wrote:Anakonda wrote:Thank you punisher, but im going to stick with this list for now for various reasons. I was mostly looking to get some actual gameplay advice.
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You might want to explain your "reasons" for why you intended on keeping the worst piece of wargear in the codex ( MSS) despite being given very good suggestions on how to switch it out for something genuinely useful before we go any further (after all, why bother giving advice if the OP is just going to disregard it)
Maybe his meta is exclusively Xenos armies and it actually has a use. Or he wants a semi-fluffy list and it's there for the fluff. Possibly he's in some event where he had to submit a list before-hand and can't change it at all. Or maybe he wants tactics and not list advice, seeing as he posted in the tactics forum.
As to OP, Use the Tomb blades as harrassers and objective grabbers. They can do some damage to marines and tons of damage to armies like Orks. In a small unit like yours, I like to run them to objectives that I get.
Overlord and Destroyer Lord are going with the Warriors on foot I'm assuming? If so, they just move forward and shoot what they can. Keep the Ghost Ark near to revive any that die. Seeing that squad be larger than 10 would be nice though. Whatever you do, don't charge them. Let your opponent charge you. Only time they should charge is if they're finishing off a few guys, and even then it's iffy.
The Immortals should have Tesla and sit on a backfield objective, shooting those that get close.
The Destroyers should be hunting after any MEQ with special weapons that can cause problems, such as Plasma gunners. In a pinch, they do horrible things to vehicles. Don't forget they reroll all to wound rolls.
Heavy Destroyers are Vehicle hunters exclusively. Run them after those rhinos and Land Raiders to get the dudes inside out into the open for your other units.
Keep the spyder close to the wraiths and scarabs and be generating a new scarab each turn. Use the scarabs and wraiths to tie up whatever you don't want to fight in combat. I personally hate the Canoptek Harvest though, so others may have different advice. When in doubt, scarabs can do horrible things to anything they charge.
Best tactics advice I can give: use your list several times before changing it. The people commenting on your list have good advice, so keep it in consideration when changing it up.
Edit: Note: I am by no means the best player ever, and these are what I have found work for me in my meta. Quality of advice may vary depending on your local meta.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/04 11:08:54
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/04 11:39:15
Subject: Tactics for new necron player
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Proud Triarch Praetorian
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demonwalker wrote: skoffs wrote:Anakonda wrote:Thank you punisher, but im going to stick with this list for now for various reasons. I was mostly looking to get some actual gameplay advice.
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You might want to explain your "reasons" for why you intended on keeping the worst piece of wargear in the codex ( MSS) despite being given very good suggestions on how to switch it out for something genuinely useful before we go any further (after all, why bother giving advice if the OP is just going to disregard it)
Maybe his meta is exclusively Xenos armies and it actually has a use. Or he wants a semi-fluffy list and it's there for the fluff. Possibly he's in some event where he had to submit a list before-hand and can't change it at all. Or maybe he wants tactics and not list advice, seeing as he posted in the tactics forum.
Hence the reason I was hoping for the OP to explain, so we'd have some better idea of why he would be doggedly sticking to a less efficient list. There's been many a tactic thread where people ask for advice, are given sound suggestions, and then proceed to completely ignore everything said, so in an attempt to avoid potentially wasting anyone's time or effort I thought I'd get that part out of the way first.
Regardless, your posted suggestions are all legit.
I'd add that perhaps you may want to attach that D.Lord to the Wraiths instead of the Warriors, as they would already be going more slowly to keep close to the Spyder meaning he'd have no problem keeping pace, and they'd benefit more from PE (were it a unit of 20 Warriors, on the other hand, then I'd switch him to be with them).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/04 13:03:42
Subject: Tactics for new necron player
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Loyal Necron Lychguard
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Buy Wraiths + Walk everything forward = Profit.
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40k:
8th Edtion: 9405 pts - Varantekh Dynasty |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/04 16:00:52
Subject: Tactics for new necron player
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Hellacious Havoc
Kansas City
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Be as aggressive as possible with your GA full of warriors. Seriously. It's not a Rhino. Ram that thing down people's throats. Shoot the hell out of any tank in range. 15/30 Gauss shots are sooooo freaking good.
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Chaos Army Totals
~6000
~2000 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/04 17:14:49
Subject: Tactics for new necron player
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Proud Triarch Praetorian
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15?
Last I checked stock Ghost Ark fire only came in three varieties.
10 shots (empty)
20 shots (occupied by 10 Warriors but outside of rapid fire range)
30 shots (same as above, but within rapid fire range)
It could be argued that there's a fourth set, as the guns on the other side of the Ark get to fire their 10 shots at targets, too, but that will generally be a different target, unless the controller has managed to angle the boat to have both sides draw line of sight on one particularly large and spread out enemy unit.
Regardless, people really need to realize that Gauss isn't as cracked up to be everything they imagine it to be. Hoping for 6s, while nice when it happens, is NOT usually the wisest course of generalship...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/04 17:37:50
Subject: Tactics for new necron player
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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skoffs wrote:demonwalker wrote: skoffs wrote:Anakonda wrote:Thank you punisher, but im going to stick with this list for now for various reasons. I was mostly looking to get some actual gameplay advice.
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You might want to explain your "reasons" for why you intended on keeping the worst piece of wargear in the codex ( MSS) despite being given very good suggestions on how to switch it out for something genuinely useful before we go any further (after all, why bother giving advice if the OP is just going to disregard it)
Maybe his meta is exclusively Xenos armies and it actually has a use. Or he wants a semi-fluffy list and it's there for the fluff. Possibly he's in some event where he had to submit a list before-hand and can't change it at all. Or maybe he wants tactics and not list advice, seeing as he posted in the tactics forum.
Hence the reason I was hoping for the OP to explain, so we'd have some better idea of why he would be doggedly sticking to a less efficient list. There's been many a tactic thread where people ask for advice, are given sound suggestions, and then proceed to completely ignore everything said, so in an attempt to avoid potentially wasting anyone's time or effort I thought I'd get that part out of the way first.
Regardless, your posted suggestions are all legit.
I'd add that perhaps you may want to attach that D.Lord to the Wraiths instead of the Warriors, as they would already be going more slowly to keep close to the Spyder meaning he'd have no problem keeping pace, and they'd benefit more from PE (were it a unit of 20 Warriors, on the other hand, then I'd switch him to be with them).
Even under that logic, MSS is still a terrible buy.
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CaptainStabby wrote:If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote:BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote:Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote:ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/04 17:49:48
Subject: Tactics for new necron player
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Proud Triarch Praetorian
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Oh, I wasn't defending keeping MSS. But if OP had written the list without knowing how bad they were beforehand, submitted it to a tourney or something where it was now too late to change, then I could see why he said he was keeping it that way.
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But if that's not the case and he's just keeping the list as is despite all the advice on how to improve it, well then, we will wish OP good luck with his games and be on our merry way.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/04 23:51:01
Subject: Tactics for new necron player
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Hellacious Havoc
Kansas City
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skoffs wrote:
15?
Last I checked stock Ghost Ark fire only came in three varieties.
10 shots (empty)
20 shots (occupied by 10 Warriors but outside of rapid fire range)
30 shots (same as above, but within rapid fire range)
It could be argued that there's a fourth set, as the guns on the other side of the Ark get to fire their 10 shots at targets, too, but that will generally be a different target, unless the controller has managed to angle the boat to have both sides draw line of sight on one particularly large and spread out enemy unit.
Regardless, people really need to realize that Gauss isn't as cracked up to be everything they imagine it to be. Hoping for 6s, while nice when it happens, is NOT usually the wisest course of generalship...
15 shots = 10 open topped, 5 from the side. Not sure how your games go, but generally don't get to fire all 10 from the sides.
30 shots = 20 open topped rapid fire, 10 Array.
I love it when people say Gauss isn't good. I'll take my chances on rolling 1-3 6's per 20 dice rolled, realistically per turn. I've never not had my Ghost Ark take down a Leman Russ or Predator in one turn.
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Chaos Army Totals
~6000
~2000 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/05 00:12:54
Subject: Tactics for new necron player
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Ork-Hunting Inquisitorial Xenokiller
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Darth_Mox wrote: skoffs wrote:
15?
Last I checked stock Ghost Ark fire only came in three varieties.
10 shots (empty)
20 shots (occupied by 10 Warriors but outside of rapid fire range)
30 shots (same as above, but within rapid fire range)
It could be argued that there's a fourth set, as the guns on the other side of the Ark get to fire their 10 shots at targets, too, but that will generally be a different target, unless the controller has managed to angle the boat to have both sides draw line of sight on one particularly large and spread out enemy unit.
Regardless, people really need to realize that Gauss isn't as cracked up to be everything they imagine it to be. Hoping for 6s, while nice when it happens, is NOT usually the wisest course of generalship...
15 shots = 10 open topped, 5 from the side. Not sure how your games go, but generally don't get to fire all 10 from the sides.
30 shots = 20 open topped rapid fire, 10 Array.
I love it when people say Gauss isn't good. I'll take my chances on rolling 1-3 6's per 20 dice rolled, realistically per turn. I've never not had my Ghost Ark take down a Leman Russ or Predator in one turn.
The arrays are Salvo 5/10. Vehicles are relentless, so always fire 10.
giving between 10 (one array, empty ark) and 40 (full ark in rapid fire, and both arrays firing) shots.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/05 00:13:41
Subject: Tactics for new necron player
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Auspicious Daemonic Herald
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Darth_Mox wrote: skoffs wrote:
15?
Last I checked stock Ghost Ark fire only came in three varieties.
10 shots (empty)
20 shots (occupied by 10 Warriors but outside of rapid fire range)
30 shots (same as above, but within rapid fire range)
It could be argued that there's a fourth set, as the guns on the other side of the Ark get to fire their 10 shots at targets, too, but that will generally be a different target, unless the controller has managed to angle the boat to have both sides draw line of sight on one particularly large and spread out enemy unit.
Regardless, people really need to realize that Gauss isn't as cracked up to be everything they imagine it to be. Hoping for 6s, while nice when it happens, is NOT usually the wisest course of generalship...
15 shots = 10 open topped, 5 from the side. Not sure how your games go, but generally don't get to fire all 10 from the sides.
30 shots = 20 open topped rapid fire, 10 Array.
I love it when people say Gauss isn't good. I'll take my chances on rolling 1-3 6's per 20 dice rolled, realistically per turn. I've never not had my Ghost Ark take down a Leman Russ or Predator in one turn.
Gauss arrays also salvo 5/10 on a relentless vehicle. you will always get to fire 10 shots per array at the full 24"
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/01/05 00:43:13
Subject: Tactics for new necron player
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Proud Triarch Praetorian
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Darth_Mox wrote:Not sure how your games go, but generally don't get to fire all 10 from the sides.
My games go the way they're supposed to go [see above comments].
I love it when people say Gauss isn't good. I'll take my chances on rolling 1-3 6's per 20 dice rolled, realistically per turn. I've never not had my Ghost Ark take down a Leman Russ or Predator in one turn.
A Ghost Ark + embarked Warriors stripping 3-4 HP from a vehicle in one turn?
Not impossible, but even assuming the opponent was stupid enough to let a GA get within rapid fire distance to their tank AND leave it exposed so it couldn't get a cover save, those odds would still not exactly be with you.
Typically, experienced Necron generals tend to favor more dedicated anti- AV methods, eg. Heavy Destroyers, Warscythes, Stalkers, etc. Gauss is best used as a finisher, in case there's something with a lingering last hull point, not relied on as the main means of dealing with enemy armor.
But hey, if it seems to work for you every game, stick with it. I just think it might be best for new players if they knew better than to place all their hope on rolling sixes.
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