Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I just don't get this unit. You pay the same 10 points per model as tactical marines, but the base 10-man squad costs 75 points more! What is it exactly that makes them worth that many points? A 6++ (5++ in melee) isn't all that great, you get special weapons instead of just bolters but you still have to pay for them, and their ability to re-roll failed armor saves is hardly ever going to come up in a game where everyone is taking anti-MEQ weapons. And you lose the double shot with bolters, so it's not like you're getting those rules for free. Was this a typo or something, or are they really just a terrible unit?

They are good for Zone mortalis where people will bring flamers to burn your tightly packed troops. Void hardened armour makes them quite resilient in ZM games.

Simple answer is they are not, neither are assault marines, we reduced breachers to 200pts per 10, then 10 per man after, assault marines to 180pts for 10, 15pts per man after, worked out quite well

It's because their rules reflect their fluff, and the fluff is represented on the tabletop by Zone Mortalis games.

Assault Marines are harder to justify, but if you are playing on a heavy terrain table, their ability to jump around out of LoS come in real handy. However its the same problem as in 40k, where people don't tend to play on terrain heavy tables.

There is some uses, but they are very niche. They shine in Zone Mortalis and anything that uses the Void rules. They are also 1 of the only ways to get access to grav guns allowing for AL and RG to get 4 grav guns into shot range on the first turn (infiltrate + vigilator scout). IF stone gauntlet making them T5 or UM being able to take power swords on them. Their access to melta bombs and boarding shields make them good dreadnought/knight hunters. And their reroll vs blasts/templates means that they won't be shredded by quad mortars or Mor Deythan flamer teams.

I think they should have kept Fury of the Legion, but TBH you rarely get to use that rule in game anyway, most of the time you would get just as many shots by moving into range/sight that double tapping and not shooting next turn. I get to pull it off ~once per game with 3 tac squads running around.

Assault marines get better when you play on larger tables. When you start playing in 6'x8' and have a 3' no mans land that deepstrike and movement is actually useful.

 GoonBandito wrote:
It's because their rules reflect their fluff, and the fluff is represented on the tabletop by Zone Mortalis games.

Their rules are fine, I just don't get their point costs. They cost the same 10 points per model as tactical marines to add models to the squad, but an extra 7.5 points per model for the base squad. So, according to those costs, they're simultaneously the same value as tactical marines and about 50% better than tactical marines. And it's not possible for both to be true at the same time. I'd be perfectly happy if they kept the same rules but decreased the base price of the squad to ~150 points like tactical marines.

I don't know, the only thing I can think of is the 'privilege' of taking a phobos or proteus as a dedicated transport without any rites of war, but that's tenuous at best imo.

They basically pay to be near mandatory in a specific game type (Zone Mortalis) but aren't nearly as efficient in regular games. It's actually kind of smart on Forge Worlds' part as it makes players want to buy Breachers for Zone Mortalis given how amazing they are in that game type, but it also makes players want to purchase alternate Troops for standard matches where the Breachers are inefficient. It's kinda shady but it's a win-win for Forge World. Of course, it could just be sloppy balancing which is probably more likely.

What's worse is that their 40K equivalents from the Siege Vanguard list gain the ability to reroll all armor saves, and not just those from blasts and templates like the 30K breachers get. Perhaps if they had that ability they would be worth their points.

Where are the rules for breachers in 40k? I'm doing a unit for my Crimson Fists, but only have the 30k rules.

My guess is they thought the Invul was worth the cost.

There are no 40k Breacher Squads, their specific equipment ~ Boarding Shields, Lascutters and Graviton Guns ~ were all available to any army as General Strategems in the original Zone Mortalis rules in Imperial Armour 9, however all are missing from the Strategem list in the Zone Mortalis pdf on Forge Worlds site.

 Gashrog wrote:
There are no 40k Breacher Squads, their specific equipment ~ Boarding Shields, Lascutters and Graviton Guns ~ were all available to any army as General Strategems in the original Zone Mortalis rules in Imperial Armour 9, however all are missing from the Strategem list in the Zone Mortalis pdf on Forge Worlds site.

Yes and no. While not named as "breachers", the Siege Assault Vanguard army list allowed tactical squads to be upgraded with siege shields for 50pts, giving them the ability to reroll all failed armor saves from shooting. But, only available when playing a Siege Assault Vanguard army, and not something that can just be cherry-picked and added into a different SM army.

Honestly, their points cost has turned me away from purchasing any of them. Even for zone mortalis I'll just take terminators instead.

Their rules are specifically designed to excel in SM missions which simulate boarding actions in the tight confines of spaceships.