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It's still sort of useless. They could have just made it so a certain knight family was male pilots only, that would have worked as well.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Knights can't have female pilots? As if 40k wasn't enough of a sausage fest.
The entire 5th Grey Knights codex. It's like it was written by a hyperactive twelve year old.
The HH books after Know No Fear. (I think that's what it's called, the Word Bearers attacking Calth) Everything after that, and a few before, were wastes of time. The HH series started off strong with a clear overall narrative. Then the big wigs wondered how they could stretch it out so they could keep selling books and now it's meandering without purpose.

I think the all-male knight pilots thing was supposed to encourage Sweet Polly Oliver-ing.

How so?

The Blood Oath book from Warhammer World was really boring. Tons of Khorne forces pour intro Ultramar and the smurfs defend their planets, then An'ggrath, favored of Khorne, decides to pick up Calgar with his fist in an attempt to EAT HIM, but instead lifts him up to his face so slowly that Calgar manages to double-punch An'ggrath with his smurf-fists and smash his head. I mean, really...?

Virtually everything Ward did stinks like cheap fanfiction written by an uninspired 14-yeared-old teenager. 5th ed. Grey Knights (aka Mary Sue: The Codex), 5th ed. Necrons and his whole Ultramarines psychic masturbation.

The biggest issue is not just what he wrote, it's that he somehow set the general tone of the franchise. And since he's gone, it could be argued it's been getting no better.

In contrast, I have to admit a few nice pieces have appeared here and there. 6th ed. CSM book had decent new fluff, quite above average what GW has been releasing in recent years - despite the "just as planned" tag to Abaddon's neverending failures.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Knights can't have female pilots? As if 40k wasn't enough of a sausage fest.
The entire 5th Grey Knights codex. It's like it was written by a hyperactive twelve year old.
The HH books after Know No Fear. (I think that's what it's called, the Word Bearers attacking Calth) Everything after that, and a few before, were wastes of time. The HH series started off strong with a clear overall narrative. Then the big wigs wondered how they could stretch it out so they could keep selling books and now it's meandering without purpose.

I think the all-male knight pilots thing was supposed to encourage Sweet Polly Oliver-ing.

That was the vibe I got. If I ever bought a knight, it would probably be done as a Freeblade piloted by a woman pretending to be a man.

GrafWattenburg wrote:
The Blood Oath book from Warhammer World was really boring. Tons of Khorne forces pour intro Ultramar and the smurfs defend their planets, then An'ggrath, favored of Khorne, decides to pick up Calgar with his fist in an attempt to EAT HIM, but instead lifts him up to his face so slowly that Calgar manages to double-punch An'ggrath with his smurf-fists and smash his head. I mean, really...?

Wow. That really is silly. But I think going into that story we knew who was guaranteed to win with no significant losses.

nomotog wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:


I think the all-male knight pilots thing was supposed to encourage Sweet Polly Oliver-ing.

How so?

Well, the first thing they did after they released the book saying all Knight pilots are male was to release a story about a female one, right?

It's just to make their iconic character more snowflakey, and thus get away with dumping her on the side lines when the Obsidian Knight rolls up with his 'cooler' snowflakeness.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Knights can't have female pilots? As if 40k wasn't enough of a sausage fest.
The entire 5th Grey Knights codex. It's like it was written by a hyperactive twelve year old.
The HH books after Know No Fear. (I think that's what it's called, the Word Bearers attacking Calth) Everything after that, and a few before, were wastes of time. The HH series started off strong with a clear overall narrative. Then the big wigs wondered how they could stretch it out so they could keep selling books and now it's meandering without purpose.

I think the all-male knight pilots thing was supposed to encourage Sweet Polly Oliver-ing.

That is a flimsy excuse at best. In the lore, what happens to anyone else who attempts to deceive the Imperium's government? nothing good. Also if its a boys only club, and many people make a female pilot then what is the point of the rule? If its not enforced its not a rule, so either lore wise everyone's plucky mulan-esque pilot would be executed as a heretic the moment the fighting is over this isnt an imperium wide rule

This would be like saying Jedi cant have famili-.... oh wait... sorry.

Warboss Gorhack wrote:

Relegation of Soroitas, and indeed the Ecclesiarchy, to the back burner. <sigh>. But I like Angry Nunz wiv Gunz in bustier armor...! And I like em better when they have believable backstory, not as demonic blood sacrifice by supposedly incorruptible GKs or as punching bags for actual demons.

Seconded.

It's frequently reiterated that the people of the Imperium are fanatically devoted to venerating the emperor and that that faith fuels and is enforced by the Ecclesiarchy, which can leverage that faith towards power, wealth, and so on. They're the faction that can afford to outfit humans with power armour, can defy an explicit order not to keep a standing army with gendered pronoun cheekiness, can call down exterminatus over someone doing good things in not the exact way they want it done.

Yet in the books, people roll their eyes at them.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Knights can't have female pilots? As if 40k wasn't enough of a sausage fest.
The entire 5th Grey Knights codex. It's like it was written by a hyperactive twelve year old.
The HH books after Know No Fear. (I think that's what it's called, the Word Bearers attacking Calth) Everything after that, and a few before, were wastes of time. The HH series started off strong with a clear overall narrative. Then the big wigs wondered how they could stretch it out so they could keep selling books and now it's meandering without purpose.

I think the all-male knight pilots thing was supposed to encourage Sweet Polly Oliver-ing.

That was the vibe I got. If I ever bought a knight, it would probably be done as a Freeblade piloted by a woman pretending to be a man.

Name her Joan and you are all set

 Captain Joystick wrote:


Yet in the books, people roll their eyes at them.

This is because the Ecclesiarchy (and especially the Sororitas) are Worf

 Furyou Miko wrote:

This is because the Ecclesiarchy (and especially the Sororitas) are Worf

That's a thing, but not the thing I mean.

I mean that anyone in the lore that has even an inkling of the bigger picture (which is literally everyone in these books) makes a point of disregarding them, if they're present at all. The Cain books are most egregious here, as the narrative will side-track for Cain to flippantly dismiss the notion that the emperor actively intervenes in peoples lives, this is done a few times in every book. In one of those books, the sororitas interrupt a war council to sing hymns.

This attitude is presented with more subtlety elsewhere, but is extremely pervasive. I get this impression GW is trying to send a message about theocracies being dangerous by depicting its heads as morons, but all it does is make them seem harmless.

The fluff/lore I hate the most is the Grey Knights/inquisition extermination of almost if not all the survivors of the first war for Armageddon. (I think the Space Wolves did save some iirc) And then Draigo, and then massacring Sisters, and generally being the biggest cowards, AND mary sues in the ENTIRE history of 40K. When they are supposed to be this ultra rare group that sends a few SQUADS to a war zone to assist the Inquisition, Guard and Asartes against the daemonic. They shouldn't even BE a mainstream faction. The chances of seeing ONE grey knight in an area with no daemonic activity should be as likely as seeing Yarrick having tea with Ghazghkull! They should have at minimum NEVER been separated from the Inquisition in the Daemonhunters codex.

Lack of named characters in imperial guard (AM), the black library is FULL of amazing IG heroes, commanders, NCO's, etc. Instead of game breaking formations, we needed more characters. GW even sells models of most of them. Gaunt, Cain, Mirra, Merrick, Schaffier, Apostles, etc. I know we can just proxy them, but can you magine if they had special orders and wargear. Nothing game breaking or cheesey, but similar to Sgt Harker, wargear and comes with a restriction, kinda of a give and take approach. The strength of the IG comes from the fact that they are Human, and in the millions and millions of un-altered humans, its the cadre of heroes that stand out and make them amazing.

I preferred it when there were more gaps in the fluff, more mystery. The trend has been to fill in all the gaps, and I think that has been a mistake. Less is more.

 Fugazi wrote:
Less is more.

Absolutely agreed.
Also Orks being a fungus? No thanks.
In my world they still feth and feed.

I think I'm most disappointed by the Dark Angels--the whole darn development of them, largely by Gav Thorpe himself, in his novels.

The WORST was when the last set of DA novels revealed

but, honestly, I was just so irritated with the whole thing. Marines serving for decades and whining like punk recruits. Marines with decades of service asking 'awkward questions' about the history of the DA. Veterans with centuries of service rethinking their loyalties and the ethics of their Hunt.

Seriously? You have a Chapter which has successfully hidden a huge, heretical secret for ten thousand years, and you haven't worked out a good cover story? I mean, your own Companies don't realize there is anything suspicious going on, so you should have pretty iron-clad, solid ways of handling this. This is the kind of juvenile crap that might happen in the first few years after the incident--not stuff that keeps popping up ten thousand years later. If your informational security is this freaking lax, everybody and their dumb uncle would know about the Fallen.

Nope. Ya' see, they have psychoconditioning which will make everyone including senior officers (say, Company Commanders) compliant and forgetful. Super. So...amazing, reliable, perfect psychoconditioning that doesn't affect the DA mentally in any way or leave any sort of psychological effects that might distinguish them from other, non-completely brainwashed Marines. Handy.

Plus:



Ugh. I mean, you have newly inducted Deathwing Terminators being arrogant and flippant. DEATHWING. It's not Top Gun. The Deathwing didn't just recruit cocky Tom Cruise. The newly elevated Deathwing should be marines with decades, or centuries, of loyal service; not glory hogs and wise-asses. Shudder.

I mean, I really want the Dark Angels to be cool. I want them to be the glorious and solemn First Legion. The first and best of the Emperor's Angels, with a proud and noble legacy--yet still living cloistered, monastic lives which mystify the common people of the Imperium. I want their secrets to be SECRET. Not only is it something that the common man doesn't know or even vaguely suspect, but it's something that even loyal Dark Angels of decades of service don't even suspect. Instead, you can't tell a damn story about the First Legion without constantly hammering on about the Fallen. Jebus Rice.

There's EIGHT COMPANIES of Dark Angels (and eight companies of each of their successor chapters within the Unforgiven) that wake up every day fighting the Emperor's enemies and not knowing feth all about the Fallen. Even if the Ravenwing and the Deathwing were 100% occupied with the Fallen all of the time--which they aren't--the majority of the DA would be undertaking missions that were unrelated or incidentally related to the Fallen. But instead, if there's a Dark Angel story, it's about the Fallen. DROP IT.

 Captain Joystick wrote:
In one of those books, the sororitas interrupt a war council to sing hymns.

Actually Cain is being flippant when he implies that they're about to launch into a hymn. Some of them also sass him, asking if he doesn't have some guardsmen to shoot when he tries to point out that they're leaving a hole in the defensive line. They don't lack for asskicking, or even good tactical sense in some cases, but the fight for Aceralbaterra is clearly the Sororitas at their worst; blinded by their own fanaticism and uncaring about anything outside their own narrow view (which is probably being helped along by the fact that they're being played by a radical inquisitor the whole time). Contrast this to the highly competent Sororitas in Cain's Last Stand who are helping hold the line against their own mind controlled sisters, even though most are just novices..

Yeah, the one (1) that they turned in to a drinking, affair-having weary gambler.

Da Butcha wrote:I think I'm most disappointed by the Dark Angels--the whole darn development of them, largely by Gav Thorpe himself, in his novels.

The WORST was when the last set of DA novels revealed

Spoiler:

Azrael and the current Dark Angels CAUSED the destruction of Caliban by disrupting the warp energies of a pre-human construct which was opening a warp portal to the past, where Caliban was still intact.

but, honestly, I was just so irritated with the whole thing. Marines serving for decades and whining like punk recruits. Marines with decades of service asking 'awkward questions' about the history of the DA. Veterans with centuries of service rethinking their loyalties and the ethics of their Hunt.

Seriously? You have a Chapter which has successfully hidden a huge, heretical secret for ten thousand years, and you haven't worked out a good cover story? I mean, your own Companies don't realize there is anything suspicious going on, so you should have pretty iron-clad, solid ways of handling this. This is the kind of juvenile crap that might happen in the first few years after the incident--not stuff that keeps popping up ten thousand years later. If your informational security is this freaking lax, everybody and their dumb uncle would know about the Fallen.

Nope. Ya' see, they have psychoconditioning which will make everyone including senior officers (say, Company Commanders) compliant and forgetful. Super. So...amazing, reliable, perfect psychoconditioning that doesn't affect the DA mentally in any way or leave any sort of psychological effects that might distinguish them from other, non-completely brainwashed Marines. Handy.

Plus:

Spoiler:

You useless spankers have captured and released Cypher seven times already?

Ugh. I mean, you have newly inducted Deathwing Terminators being arrogant and flippant. DEATHWING. It's not Top Gun. The Deathwing didn't just recruit cocky Tom Cruise. The newly elevated Deathwing should be marines with decades, or centuries, of loyal service; not glory hogs and wise-asses. Shudder.

I mean, I really want the Dark Angels to be cool. I want them to be the glorious and solemn First Legion. The first and best of the Emperor's Angels, with a proud and noble legacy--yet still living cloistered, monastic lives which mystify the common people of the Imperium. I want their secrets to be SECRET. Not only is it something that the common man doesn't know or even vaguely suspect, but it's something that even loyal Dark Angels of decades of service don't even suspect. Instead, you can't tell a damn story about the First Legion without constantly hammering on about the Fallen. Jebus Rice.

There's EIGHT COMPANIES of Dark Angels (and eight companies of each of their successor chapters within the Unforgiven) that wake up every day fighting the Emperor's enemies and not knowing feth all about the Fallen. Even if the Ravenwing and the Deathwing were 100% occupied with the Fallen all of the time--which they aren't--the majority of the DA would be undertaking missions that were unrelated or incidentally related to the Fallen. But instead, if there's a Dark Angel story, it's about the Fallen. DROP IT.

You really hit the nail on the head with that one. I too have been highly disapointed with Gav Thorpe's writing regarding Dark Angels, which is why I prefer the fluff of pre-heresy Dark Angels (though even that's starting to go down the toilet, it's like the authors got in a fight, so one decided to crap on the others' characters and hard work).

 Melissia wrote:
Yeah, the one (1) that they turned in to a drinking, affair-having weary gambler.

As opposed to the sisters who couldn't do the math that saving a city is less important than saving a large portion of the population of an entire planet's souls AND lives in Swallow's Red and Black? One would think that would be battle sisters 101 there.

I think it's just that you didn't like that Mitchell wrote in that the Sisters didn't have chastity as part of their Rule.

If I remember correctly, chastity is not a requirement of Sisters in the Orders. As long as they serve the Emperor and follow their Order's guidelines, they're fine. It does differ from order to order though.

BaronIveagh wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Yeah, the one (1) that they turned in to a drinking, affair-having weary gambler.

As opposed to the sisters who couldn't do the math that saving a city is less important than saving a large portion of the population of an entire planet's souls AND lives in Swallow's Red and Black? One would think that would be battle sisters 101 there.

Miriya is an atrocious example of a Battle Sister, and Swallows' entire Miriya series is an atrocious representation of the Sororitas as a whole.

Carnikang wrote:If I remember correctly, chastity is not a requirement of Sisters in the Orders. As long as they serve the Emperor and follow their Order's guidelines, they're fine. It does differ from order to order though.

We don't actually know anything about the actual laws of the Sororitas orders, other than that they believe in ritual self-mortification of the flesh as a punishment for their antecedent's sins.

They are, however, the Daughters of the Emperor, not his Brides, and the normal line about chastity in Christian orders is about being faithful in your marriage to god (as opposed to Buddhist orders, which promote chastity as keeping the self pure).

Now, personally I favour chaste Battle Sisters, because I like them as the enlightened warrior archetype who gains their 'powers' by a mix of purity of focus and body.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Miriya is an atrocious example of a Battle Sister, and Swallows' entire Miriya series is an atrocious representation of the Sororitas as a whole.

Actually I get the feeling at times that Swallow is trying to write something interesting, and then GW/BL editors come in and gak all over it. The writing in Black and Red and in Hammer and Anvil changed drastically in places which made me think that there was another hand at work.

Hammer and Anvil was an absolutely brilliant sneak preview of the 2011 Necron codex, if you bought it at Games Day.

Otherwise it was an utterly atrocious waste of concept.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Hammer and Anvil was an absolutely brilliant sneak preview of the 2011 Necron codex, if you bought it at Games Day.

Otherwise it was an utterly atrocious waste of concept.

As I said, I suspect editorial meddling. GW wields editorial fiat with all the subtlety of a titan chain sword.

The7th edition Codex Craftworlds was a huge disappointment for me. The Dark Eldar release had so much new and exciting lore in it and I really had my hopes up, but when the codex came out lore wise there was nothing really new and that almost pushed me out of the hobby. The artwork was beautiful and while there were a few things I disagreed with gameplay wise I liked it, but the lack of story during a time when each codex seemed to be setting up an end times scenario was somewhat insulting to me as a fan

The most disappointing fluff I have read is all the pointless and useless fluff written into every rule book to make it a 100+ pages hard cover book to sell at $100 . For real, the real rules to play is less than 10 pages per codex and even the big rule book can be a 20 page packet. Fluff belongs in a 300+page novel not the rule books. I should not have to pay $100 to play an army or the game.

GW does have the game editions of codexes now. But I think it would be a big mistake to divorce the fluff out of codexes and rule book. The background and setting is as important to me as the rules and minis.

yeah but you can read all the fluff on 1d4chan...or the novels they are suppose to be written on.