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 Bobthehero wrote:
EW needs to well, die.

It can't. It has EW.

Slap it with a D weapon

I agree with plot armour. More named characters should have it IMHO. Especially Lucius and Kharn.

It just makes sense that CSM SCs would have this rule plus FNP.

It does not, nothing should have EW

 Bobthehero wrote:
It does not, nothing should have EW

Why? Its literally plot armour.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
It does not, nothing should have EW

Why? Its literally plot armour.

Well I'd say that plot armour belongs in stories, not tabletop games.

Yeah, pretty much.

I disagree, I like it because it adds a bit off cinematic flair to the table top for the heavy hitters. I don't like the idea of calgar or Abbadon going down to a melta shot or a random blast template.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
It does not, nothing should have EW

Why? Its literally plot armour.

Well I'd say that plot armour belongs in stories, not tabletop games.

That's why we put both together

HoundsofDemos wrote:
I disagree, I like it because it adds a bit off cinematic flair to the table top for the heavy hitters. I don't like the idea of calgar or Abbadon going down to a melta shot or a random blast template.

I love it

 Bobthehero wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
I disagree, I like it because it adds a bit off cinematic flair to the table top for the heavy hitters. I don't like the idea of calgar or Abbadon going down to a melta shot or a random blast template.

I love it

I'm questioning if you actually don't like EW because you play Guard (DKoK no less) or there are other reasons...

No matter the army, I think its stupid.

I'd be fine with reducing the price tag of SC by a lot if they lost EW.

 Bobthehero wrote:
No matter the army, I think its stupid.

I'd be fine with reducing the price tag of SC by a lot if they lost EW.

I'd be willing to keep all the SC costs exactly as is if we keep EW.

The typical player that doesn't like either doesn't have access or don't want to play against it. The thing is no army has access to everything. You just have to deal with it.

There's a piece of wargear that could give EW to my commander, I don't use it because I don't like the EW mechanic.

For the record I rarely use any models that have EW outside of rolling it on the warlord chart. I find it a needed rule to keep characters alive as it's too easy to double out hqs

Too bad so sad, get hit by an artillery shell or a lascannon? You're toast.

I also think HQ's with more wounds than regular troops is stupid, for the record.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Too bad so sad, get hit by an artillery shell or a lascannon? You're toast.

I also think HQ's with more wounds than regular troops is stupid, for the record.

Unless your Kaldor Motherfething Draigo.

Draigo isn't dying to a stupid Lascannon shot.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Too bad so sad, get hit by an artillery shell or a lascannon? You're toast.

I also think HQ's with more wounds than regular troops is stupid, for the record.

It's definitely odd but it also really shows that we shouldn't take game stats as more than loosely connected to the setting's lore.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Too bad so sad, get hit by an artillery shell or a lascannon? You're toast.

I also think HQ's with more wounds than regular troops is stupid, for the record.

It's definitely odd but it also really shows that we shouldn't take game stats as more than loosely connected to the setting's lore.

It has flaws, but its far better than the collection of books all saying contradicting stuff.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Too bad so sad, get hit by an artillery shell or a lascannon? You're toast.

I also think HQ's with more wounds than regular troops is stupid, for the record.

Unless your Kaldor Motherfething Draigo.

Draigo isn't dying to a stupid Lascannon shot.

Because of his shield, maybe, otherwise, tough luck.

 Bobthehero wrote:


It has flaws, but its far better than the collection of books all saying contradicting stuff.

I'll take those books over Majors randomly tanking 3x as many heavy bolter shots as their men!

 Dozer Blades wrote:
The typical player that doesn't like either doesn't have access or don't want to play against it. The thing is no army has access to everything. You just have to deal with it.

I want to give the benefit of the doubt about tone being lost in the text but that statement sounds really condescending. Personally I think EW is a decent mechanic but GW needs to be more fair about who has access to it. We have for example a Space Marine Captain with Shield Eternal which is fine as its a T4 model so it would be kinda meh to have him get insta gibed by a krak missile or a PK Nob, the fact that the Shield Eternal is a +3 Invuln is just that much more durability which is not inherently bad. The problem is when you have something like a Warboss which in the fluff is a big deal to tangle with in close combat but that Warboss can't get an Invuln save and doesn't have any access to Eternal Warrior. Sure its usually T5 with 2+ armor (Mega Armor) and the closest to EW an Ork will get is being on a bike for T6 but only has 4+ armor. It's just rather annoying when the message being sent is that X,Y,Z factions aren't important enough to be given protection to characters while A,B,C factions are.

 Vankraken wrote:

 Dozer Blades wrote:
The typical player that doesn't like either doesn't have access or don't want to play against it. The thing is no army has access to everything. You just have to deal with it.

I want to give the benefit of the doubt about tone being lost in the text but that statement sounds really condescending. Personally I think EW is a decent mechanic but GW needs to be more fair about who has access to it. We have for example a Space Marine Captain with Shield Eternal which is fine as its a T4 model so it would be kinda meh to have him get insta gibed by a krak missile or a PK Nob, the fact that the Shield Eternal is a +3 Invuln is just that much more durability which is not inherently bad. The problem is when you have something like a Warboss which in the fluff is a big deal to tangle with in close combat but that Warboss can't get an Invuln save and doesn't have any access to Eternal Warrior. Sure its usually T5 with 2+ armor (Mega Armor) and the closest to EW an Ork will get is being on a bike for T6 but only has 4+ armor. It's just rather annoying when the message being sent is that X,Y,Z factions aren't important enough to be given protection to characters while A,B,C factions are.

Or Daemon princes for that matter. I would say not enough things have it

 Bobthehero wrote:
Too bad so sad, get hit by an artillery shell or a lascannon? You're toast.

I also think HQ's with more wounds than regular troops is stupid, for the record.

So you would have Abbadon go down as easy as chaos terminator? The background often shows character level individuals to be much more durable and taking a lot more punishment.

 Bobthehero wrote:
There's a piece of wargear that could give EW to my commander, I don't use it because I don't like the EW mechanic.

Is it even worth it ?

Meh. I'll take that over stuff like a squad of SM's taking over a planet, thank you very much.

And for the record, I don't think PA fails 33% of the time, but its a good way to know what's better.

Cultist armor -> Flak -> Carapace -> PA -> Terminator armor

Or that SM's are stronger/faster/tougher than the average human, but outliners (Harker? Tempestor Primes, Elysians Veterans with some enhancements) can match the average SM in some physical ability.

Or that the average human is generally less capable than most Xenos, but not so much that they should roll over and die.

And then there's stupid stuff like EW, multi wound leaders and invisible stuff making weapons that would be good vs invisible stuff not work, amongst other things.

HoundsofDemos wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Too bad so sad, get hit by an artillery shell or a lascannon? You're toast.

I also think HQ's with more wounds than regular troops is stupid, for the record.

So you would have Abbadon go down as easy as chaos terminator? The background often shows character level individuals to be much more durable and taking a lot more punishment.

Totally

 Dozer Blades wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
There's a piece of wargear that could give EW to my commander, I don't use it because I don't like the EW mechanic.

Is it even worth it ?

It only works for the first ID wound, but even then, yes, really, I've lost most commanders to some random STR 6+ shot. People rarely need more than a wound done to the guy, unless I get luck with saves.

It can simply be the Emperor wills his heroes to live on though which is plausible .

EW along with extra wounds is designed to represent a staple in nearly every story, that the main characters can take much more punishment than the rest of mooks. We see this in nearly every action genre nameless mooks go down to a shot or two, main guy takes a dozen and keeps going die hard style.

I'd like to see more armies having access to EW especially ways to give it to generic HQs. I also think named HQs should have EW.

Would also like to see more ID weapons

Melta should be ID against GMCs and Superheavies when within half range mark or at least the multimelta or better should.