Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Played a guy I'd never met before, he brought some beautifully painted Grey Knights against my Tau. I got well and truely out-cheesed, gave up before my turn 3!

He had -

Kaldor Draigo
a lvl 3 Librarian
A squad of 5 paladins (with an Apothecary, a banner and 2 psycannons)
2 dread knights (both with the torrent flamer and heavy psycannons)
1 Ceratus Knight Lancer (his warlord)
1 Knight Crusader (i think that's the right one based on the weapons he was using)

I want to give him the benefit of doubt and assume he misheard me when I said I had a 1500pt list (I make the above about 2000) but he also said his list was bound and I can't figure out how (using battlescribe, I don't know grey knights very well, never played against them before). He said that Draigo made the paladins a troop choice and that he only needed to take one troop.

Is there a formation or something that makes it fit?

Looks like he cheated if you're being cynical, or simply got something mixed up between the last two codexes. The current one has a Detachment that requires only 1 Troops choice, the last one before that saw Draigo allowing Paladin Troops, but I believe that was lost in the new book.

There may be a Formation that specifically has that combo of units, to which he added the Knight, but I don't know.

boo hoo you play tau.
Just ask for his list the next time check it that should get rid of the potential list cheating. Then and pulverize his army.
Extremely expensive terminators combined with 2 monsters and 2 AV13 walkers should not be such a hard nut to crack for tau.

[Edit] I have found no way to make this a legal battle forged list since there is no formation that I know of that includes Draigo 2 dread k and a paladin squad and he no longer makes paladins troops. And it looks like if he smuggled in that 400+pts crusader for free :\
It might be a mistake thinking thar daigo still does his thing and forgetting to add the point of his knight to the total. Just check his list if you ever again play against him

Looks like he used a Nemesis Strike Force (a special GK FOC) and a Knight Detachment. That is legal.

Kaldor Draigo doesn't turn Paladins into Troops anymore, though. He needed to field a Terminator or Strike Squad, at least.

Hmm looks some1s butthurt abit

Lib
Draigo ndk pally = illegal
Lib draigo ndk term = legal

It's easy to mix up since both of em look the same
Knight seem ok as long as he brought 3 detachments but not sure.

Gk can't be not cheesy vs any new codex anyhow.

However pally troops are off since 2 codex edition

Aswell mind to share with us your list aswell?


Plus always ask for list on a pick up game

Palladins are not a troop choice in the most recent Grey Knights book, even with Draigo as your warlord. None of his units are obj secured. That is an unbound army as I do not know of any formation that allows such a list. If he wanted to play the Nemesis strike force formation then he needed either GK terminators or a GK strike squad as troops. That list has neither.

There is no way that is a 1500 point list too.

Simple, he cheated so don't feel bad about losing. I would disregard his victory. If you find yourself in a similar situation in future, ask to see your opponent's point breakdown. Most people would have it listed in battlescribe or have the specific army books/dataslates to hand.

Grubass wrote:
Hmm looks some1s butthurt abit

Maybe a little but no one likes losing

I was trying to learn from it, looking at his list and working out how to combat it and what I could have done better, that's when I realised the points didn't balance.

This was my list (which I don't think is weak!) -

Retaliation Cadre:
··Commander
····XV8 Commander Crisis Suit [2x Cyclic Ion Blaster, Shield Generator, XV8-02 Crisis 'Iridium' Battlesuit]
··XV104 Riptide Battlesuits
····Riptide Shas'vre [Heavy Burst Cannon, Stimulant Injector, Twin-linked Smart Missile System, Velocity Tracker]
··XV8 Crisis Battlesuits
····Crisis Shas'ui [2x Cyclic Ion Blaster]
····Crisis Shas'ui [2x Cyclic Ion Blaster]
··XV8 Crisis Battlesuits
····Crisis Shas'ui [2x Fusion Blaster]
····Crisis Shas'ui [2x Fusion Blaster]
··XV8 Crisis Battlesuits
····Crisis Shas'ui [2x Burst Cannon]
····Crisis Shas'ui [2x Burst Cannon]
··XV88 Broadside Battlesuits
····Broadside [Twin-linked High-Yield Missile Pod, Twin-linked Smart Missile System]
····Broadside [Twin-linked High-Yield Missile Pod, Twin-linked Smart Missile System]
····Broadside [Twin-linked High-Yield Missile Pod, Twin-linked Smart Missile System]

Optimized Stealth Cadre:
··XV25 Stealth Battlesuits [Stealth Shas'ui with Burst Cannon, Stealth Shas'ui with Burst Cannon]
····Stealth Shas'ui with Fusion Blaster [Fusion Blaster, Target Lock]
··XV25 Stealth Battlesuits [Stealth Shas'ui with Burst Cannon, Stealth Shas'ui with Burst Cannon]
····Stealth Shas'ui with Fusion Blaster [Fusion Blaster, Target Lock]
··XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuits
····Ghostkeel Shas'vre [Fusion Collider, Stimulant Injector, Twin-linked Fusion Blaster]

Combined Arms Detachment:
Cadre Fireblade

Strike Team [5x Fire Warrior with Pulse Rifle]
Strike Team [5x Fire Warrior with Pulse Rifle]

Pathfinder Team [4x Pathfinder]
Pathfinder Team [4x Pathfinder]

One point towards him cheating (assuming he was using a Battle-Forged list): the only detachment/formation that allows two Knights is the Oathsworn Detachment, which can't be your Primary Detachment, so can't contain your Warlord.

Well your list was pretty chilled out tbh.
But yea he pretty much needed some ego massage so don't worry. Next time just agree to play him allow you to deploy first and walk off the table after his done. No need for courtesy with mannered brats

I definitely call him cheating. There's no way he could have known about the 1 troop choice AND the term Bound without knowing about the new edition of Grey Knights, in which case he should have also known that Draigo no longer turned Paladins into Troops.

Even if not, there's no way all of that crap adds up to *only* 1500.

I would avoid playing him again, cuz there's plenty of legitimate cheese within the game especially if you can afford forgeworld, so there's no point in lying to this degree.

 pumpinchimp wrote:
Played a guy I'd never met before, he brought some beautifully painted Grey Knights against my Tau. I got well and truely out-cheesed, gave up before my turn 3!

He had -

Kaldor Draigo
a lvl 3 Librarian
A squad of 5 paladins (with an Apothecary, a banner and 2 psycannons)
2 dread knights (both with the torrent flamer and heavy psycannons)
1 Ceratus Knight Lancer (his warlord)
1 Knight Crusader (i think that's the right one based on the weapons he was using)

I want to give him the benefit of doubt and assume he misheard me when I said I had a 1500pt list (I make the above about 2000) but he also said his list was bound and I can't figure out how (using battlescribe, I don't know grey knights very well, never played against them before). He said that Draigo made the paladins a troop choice and that he only needed to take one troop.

Is there a formation or something that makes it fit?

Just by looking at the list I know it exceeds 1500 pts, 2 knights cost around 400 pts each, 750 total minimum, then 2 dreadknights at 200-250 each, 5 man paladin, a librarian AND Draigo. You should of just said that looks more than 1500, show me your list prior to playing.

Also maybe next time bring along an extra 3 Riptides to match the '1500' points he is playing with

You definitely got cheated.

Before upgrades and stuff that list is 1500ish points, and not even legal in terms of force org to be a bound list.

He'd need a unit of Terminators(who cannot take Banners anymore) to make that a legal list. And its probably an 1850 list not 1500.

pumpinchimp wrote:against my Tau. I got well and truely out-cheesed, gave up before my turn 3!]

Huh? Someone playing a turely out cheesed army and he is calling someone else TFG? I think looking in the mirror first to see who TFG is. Especially when playing against strangers.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 pumpinchimp wrote:
Maybe a little but no one likes losing

Dude, it's plastic toy soldiers. Really? We are suppose to have fun playing plastic toy soldiers, we shouldn't have to Win with plastic toy soldiers.

Now that being said, anytime anyone plays, they should have ALL the rules they are using. No photo copies, no PDFs, no battlescribe, only ORIGINAL copies. Don't have the rules, can't use them simple as that. Other wise my army has this power that lets me reroll a reroll.

Davor wrote:

Huh? Someone playing a turely out cheesed army and he is calling someone else TFG? I think looking in the mirror first to see who TFG is. Especially when playing against strangers.

There's nothing wrong with playing a powerful list against another powerful list, some of us simply enjoy the pacing of it as less powered games feel sluggish to us personally. That does not make a person TFG, it simply makes it a matter of preference and opinion.

Bringing an illegal list that blatantly cheats on point values is a different subject and not a matter of opinion, which makes it a TFG move.

It is definitely not legal. It may be a mistake, but there are several issues in there.

As noted, Draigo doesn't make Paladins Troops, and I know of no formation with just those units.

A Knight isn't a character unless the detachment makes it one, and no detachment with less than 3 knights does so. Hence, it's impossible for a knight to be your warlord if you have any other characters (he has several).

Yeah...I call shenanigans on the points value too. You've got well over 750 points tied up in the two knights, probably another four hundred (two hundred each) in the two terminator-armoured characters....and both Dreadknights are armed to the gills. I suspect you've gone well over 1500 even before you look at the paladins, who have also brought many toys.

Davor wrote:

pumpinchimp wrote:against my Tau. I got well and truely out-cheesed, gave up before my turn 3!]

Huh? Someone playing a turely out cheesed army and he is calling someone else TFG? I think looking in the mirror first to see who TFG is. Especially when playing against strangers.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 pumpinchimp wrote:
Maybe a little but no one likes losing

Dude, it's plastic toy soldiers. Really? We are suppose to have fun playing plastic toy soldiers, we shouldn't have to Win with plastic toy soldiers.

Now that being said, anytime anyone plays, they should have ALL the rules they are using. No photo copies, no PDFs, no battlescribe, only ORIGINAL copies. Don't have the rules, can't use them simple as that. Other wise my army has this power that lets me reroll a reroll.

Wait what? He faced an army that clearly wasn't legal NOR at the agreed point limit and you tell him that complaining about that is being "TFG"?
And then continue on to add that you only accept physical rules which may not be copies or print-outs. How do you expect me to field my Codex: Inquisiton forces then? Or Battle Sisters? Otherwise you'll just start cheating? You do not sound like a pleasant opponent.

Davor wrote:

pumpinchimp wrote:against my Tau. I got well and truely out-cheesed, gave up before my turn 3!]

Huh? Someone playing a turely out cheesed army and he is calling someone else TFG? I think looking in the mirror first to see who TFG is. Especially when playing against strangers.

Big difference being, the Tau list is a legal one, the Grey Knight one wasn't. You cannot insinuate the OP could be TFG themselves for fielding a perfectly legit list ( I add that there is nothing cheesy about that particular Tau list)


Say, you don't play Grey Knights by any chance do you?

This thread is a prime example of all the trolls i strongly dislike.

Next time tell everyone he cheated so they shun him.

 Filch wrote:
This thread is a prime example of all the trolls i strongly dislike.

Next time tell everyone he cheated so they shun him.

And a display of some people mistaking TFG for someone who plays something strong when TFG is just someone who is a donkey-cave. While they can be both they're not mutually exclusive.

 Filch wrote:
Next time tell everyone he cheated so they shun him.

I'll give the guy the benefit of the doubt and assume that it was honest mistakes, he seemed like a really nice bloke otherwise.

If I play him again (or see him playing the same list against someone else), I'll ask him to check his list before hand.

 pumpinchimp wrote:

 Filch wrote:
Next time tell everyone he cheated so they shun him.

I'll give the guy the benefit of the doubt and assume that it was honest mistakes, he seemed like a really nice bloke otherwise.

If I play him again (or see him playing the same list against someone else), I'll ask him to check his list before hand.

Exactly. Seeing army point breakdown up front avoids any of this kind of stuff. Good luck with your future battles, your current list is by no means a weak one so you should get some success in other games

The only thing he would get from Battleforge is a warlord trait re-roll.

I'd say just take the Riptide Wing -formation and you'd be on more even footing. Your list isn't equally "cheesed out" as his.

Davor wrote:


Huh? Someone playing a turely out cheesed army and he is calling someone else TFG? I think looking in the mirror first to see who TFG is. Especially when playing against strangers.

I really Hate this mentality. STOP DOING IT! I play Eldar and have been for quite some time. Just because I play an Army doesn't make me TFG. Sure I have my cheeselists that I play in tournaments (at the local setting) but I have other lists that I bring out just to see how it measures up. This trend of "You play (insert faction here) so you must be TFG." really has to stop. It doesn't benefit anyone and never has.

The grey knights alone are 1090 points. Sounds like he either forgot, or 'forgot', to add the cost of one of the knights. Genuine or not, along with the 6th ed rules and errors on warlord, lord of war allowances etc that's a hell of a lot of mistakes to make before you're even deployed. Hopefully it won't happen again though.

One of the things that rubs me wrong is when you said he had a beautifully painted army. It sounds like he might have just dropped a fat stack of cash on the army and wanted to play right away before actually learning about the rules.

This is a Nemesis Strike Force (1HQ, 1 Elite mandatory, which he has) and an Imperial Knight detachment. He is bound but definitely not under 1500

The nemesis strike force is one hq one troops. Not one elite. Plus it has three lords of war. And the HQ isn't in the primary detachment. It is not a battle forged army.

He might have just been playing unbound, did he make use of any formation bonuses?