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How do Kroot ships travel, do they use the warp?

It's ork like warp. Some times it's because the kroot eat a weird boy, some times it because kroot can find habitable planets in the warp.

Outside the warp, it's kind of funny because they spin.

nomotog wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
I don't have a source on me but i remember reading something that the Kroot play up the whole omivore savage thing to convince the Tau that they are less advanced than they really are.

It would not surprise me if that was in the fluff mass somewhere. I know the tau know about kroot ships at least. The only reason we know about kroot ships is because they are in tau fleets. Apart from kroot ships, I can't think of much high tech stuff they have that they didn't get from someone else.

Considering the fact that Kroot are the only race to grasp the fact that a sphere works better in 3-dimensional warfare than a 1740's Frigate IN SPAAAAAAACE, I'd say that Kroot are more advanced than 80% of the races in 40k.

Trying to apply our own moral and ethical code of "good" and "bad" to an alien race in a fictional setting is never really going to end well. :-)

The Tau started out as somewhat "noblebright". A foolish, naive race that was bright eyed and bushy-tailed, ready to take to the stars. But they didn't count on the fact that not everybody were as egalitarian as they were. And they fit into the category of "enlightened imperialists".


Then a good sized portion of the fanbase freaked out, terrified at the thought of the least little bit of noblebright being injected into their steady I.V. drip of grimdark. So, the Tau were given darker characteristics than before. As a result, the Ethereals are now nothing more than mustache-twirling, Saturday morning cartoon villains. The "Greater Good" philosophy is now just another lie in a galaxy full of lies. Their commanders are becoming more and more like those of the Imperium and Eldar, ruthless and callous. But even then, they're still the "nicest" faction in the galaxy. I guess that's part of the reason why they are still referred to as "blue naive weeabo space communists" (that and their machines look like something out of a mecha anime), despite becoming just as evil (in their own Orwellian way) as everybody else in 40k.


For me, the darker tone killed much of my enjoyment of the Tau Empire fluff. It would have been interesting to see how a genuinely "decent" race, taking their first steps, adapted and changed in a galaxy that is literally a living hell. Do they struggle to maintain, or lose, their idealism? Does it affect their social structure back home? What would go through the minds of individual soldiers, witnessing the horrors out there? Or forced to go against the beliefs they were raised under,and commit acts they find questionable in the interests of survival or expediency? What kind of culture shock would average Tau civilians experience as the Empire expanded? All of this, and much more, would have been interesting to explore. This is, had they not been turned into a bunch of little blue worker ants, being mind controlled with pheromones, by Snidely Whiplash wannabes. It would have been nice to see a faction break the mold, and see where they went from there as they evolved into a true interstellar power.


The only good thing that came with the grimdark-ification was the Farsight Enclaves. Farsight and the Eight are AWESOME. They've become my favorites among Tau characters.


That's just my take. Others will differ.

 oldravenman3025 wrote:
The Tau started out as somewhat "noblebright". A foolish, naive race that was bright eyed and bushy-tailed, ready to take to the stars. But they didn't count on the fact that not everybody were as egalitarian as they were. And they fit into the category of "enlightened imperialists".

I don't think this was ever true. The Tau were always a thinly-veiled reference to manifest destiny and colonialism and all the horrible things done under those pretenses of virtue. The "greater good" they offer has always been the opportunity to submit to the Tau Empire (where all citizens are equal, but some are more equal than others) with the threat of death if you refuse. Their main "good" quality was (and is) the fact that they're pragmatic enough to use science and engineering instead of religious idiocy, and offer you a chance to surrender and be conquered at no cost to the Tau instead of mindlessly exterminating everything in their path. In most other settings they'd be the generic Evil Empire.

But, unfortunately, most people were too lazy to think about the Tau enough to see these references and took the whole Greater Good thing at face value. And so the Tau got more obvious grimdark thrown on top of their fluff in a desperate attempt to make it so obvious that even the most clueless Ultramarines fanboy couldn't possibly fail to miss it.

Context. Even though the Tau are far from being truly good, the heretic-burning, xenos-eradicating, planetary genocide-loving Imperium is an order of magnitude worse.

The Imperium of Man is a grisly nightmare state of grimdark proportions. At least there's a bit of nuance to the Tau. I think the similarly subtle Eldar make for a far more interesting comparison to them.

Probably safer to say they are the best of a bad bunch? :-)

One of the things I like about 40k is that everything is shades of grey there is very little real black and white, good and evil.

As far as the IoM goes, I would argue that they actually suffer from the same problem as the Tau. Only the government and leadership are truly corrupt and evil. The average Imperial citizen is just doing what they have to in order to survive in an empire that puts less value in human life than it does in a gallon of fuel.

 Peregrine wrote:

 oldravenman3025 wrote:
The Tau started out as somewhat "noblebright". A foolish, naive race that was bright eyed and bushy-tailed, ready to take to the stars. But they didn't count on the fact that not everybody were as egalitarian as they were. And they fit into the category of "enlightened imperialists".

I don't think this was ever true. The Tau were always a thinly-veiled reference to manifest destiny and colonialism and all the horrible things done under those pretenses of virtue. The "greater good" they offer has always been the opportunity to submit to the Tau Empire (where all citizens are equal, but some are more equal than others) with the threat of death if you refuse. Their main "good" quality was (and is) the fact that they're pragmatic enough to use science and engineering instead of religious idiocy, and offer you a chance to surrender and be conquered at no cost to the Tau instead of mindlessly exterminating everything in their path. In most other settings they'd be the generic Evil Empire.

But, unfortunately, most people were too lazy to think about the Tau enough to see these references and took the whole Greater Good thing at face value. And so the Tau got more obvious grimdark thrown on top of their fluff in a desperate attempt to make it so obvious that even the most clueless Ultramarines fanboy couldn't possibly fail to miss it.

No, it was true. It was specified in the original designer's notes, that they were to be an optimistic race to give contrast to the otherwise unrelieved Grimdarkness. GW have since erased these notes from history like Stalin having ex-comrades air-brushed out of official photos.

They're not moral for our standards, but are the best faction to be conquered by in 40k. They are not anywhere near "the most" in terms of how bad they are.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 oldravenman3025 wrote:
The Tau started out as somewhat "noblebright". A foolish, naive race that was bright eyed and bushy-tailed, ready to take to the stars. But they didn't count on the fact that not everybody were as egalitarian as they were. And they fit into the category of "enlightened imperialists".

I don't think this was ever true. The Tau were always a thinly-veiled reference to manifest destiny and colonialism and all the horrible things done under those pretenses of virtue. The "greater good" they offer has always been the opportunity to submit to the Tau Empire (where all citizens are equal, but some are more equal than others) with the threat of death if you refuse. Their main "good" quality was (and is) the fact that they're pragmatic enough to use science and engineering instead of religious idiocy, and offer you a chance to surrender and be conquered at no cost to the Tau instead of mindlessly exterminating everything in their path. In most other settings they'd be the generic Evil Empire.

But, unfortunately, most people were too lazy to think about the Tau enough to see these references and took the whole Greater Good thing at face value. And so the Tau got more obvious grimdark thrown on top of their fluff in a desperate attempt to make it so obvious that even the most clueless Ultramarines fanboy couldn't possibly fail to miss it.

No, it was true. It was specified in the original designer's notes, that they were to be an optimistic race to give contrast to the otherwise unrelieved Grimdarkness. GW have since erased these notes from history like Stalin having ex-comrades air-brushed out of official photos.

And there goes my last shred of respect for GW...

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 oldravenman3025 wrote:
The Tau started out as somewhat "noblebright". A foolish, naive race that was bright eyed and bushy-tailed, ready to take to the stars. But they didn't count on the fact that not everybody were as egalitarian as they were. And they fit into the category of "enlightened imperialists".

I don't think this was ever true. The Tau were always a thinly-veiled reference to manifest destiny and colonialism and all the horrible things done under those pretenses of virtue. The "greater good" they offer has always been the opportunity to submit to the Tau Empire (where all citizens are equal, but some are more equal than others) with the threat of death if you refuse. Their main "good" quality was (and is) the fact that they're pragmatic enough to use science and engineering instead of religious idiocy, and offer you a chance to surrender and be conquered at no cost to the Tau instead of mindlessly exterminating everything in their path. In most other settings they'd be the generic Evil Empire.

But, unfortunately, most people were too lazy to think about the Tau enough to see these references and took the whole Greater Good thing at face value. And so the Tau got more obvious grimdark thrown on top of their fluff in a desperate attempt to make it so obvious that even the most clueless Ultramarines fanboy couldn't possibly fail to miss it.

No, it was true. It was specified in the original designer's notes, that they were to be an optimistic race to give contrast to the otherwise unrelieved Grimdarkness. GW have since erased these notes from history like Stalin having ex-comrades air-brushed out of official photos.

No, it was also specified by Andy Hoare that the Tau were to slowly slip into grimdarkness like the Imperium.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 oldravenman3025 wrote:
The Tau started out as somewhat "noblebright". A foolish, naive race that was bright eyed and bushy-tailed, ready to take to the stars. But they didn't count on the fact that not everybody were as egalitarian as they were. And they fit into the category of "enlightened imperialists".

I don't think this was ever true. The Tau were always a thinly-veiled reference to manifest destiny and colonialism and all the horrible things done under those pretenses of virtue. The "greater good" they offer has always been the opportunity to submit to the Tau Empire (where all citizens are equal, but some are more equal than others) with the threat of death if you refuse. Their main "good" quality was (and is) the fact that they're pragmatic enough to use science and engineering instead of religious idiocy, and offer you a chance to surrender and be conquered at no cost to the Tau instead of mindlessly exterminating everything in their path. In most other settings they'd be the generic Evil Empire.

But, unfortunately, most people were too lazy to think about the Tau enough to see these references and took the whole Greater Good thing at face value. And so the Tau got more obvious grimdark thrown on top of their fluff in a desperate attempt to make it so obvious that even the most clueless Ultramarines fanboy couldn't possibly fail to miss it.

No, it was true. It was specified in the original designer's notes, that they were to be an optimistic race to give contrast to the otherwise unrelieved Grimdarkness. GW have since erased these notes from history like Stalin having ex-comrades air-brushed out of official photos.

No, it was also specified by Andy Hoare that the Tau were to slowly slip into grimdarkness like the Imperium.

And like anything else from the kings of inconsistency known as GW, nothing is etched in stone. The Tau were originally supposed to be a contrast to the Imperium, Eldar, etc. Not a perfect society, mind you. But a brighter one. Only because the hardcores got bent out of shape, did the Tau get a fast track to being just another dark faction in a setting full of them.


And any slip into grimderp for the Tau should have been a gradual thing, since they decided to go that route. Not an almost overnight change to Saturday morning cartoon bad guys (i.e. "Imperium Lite"). Before we know it, GeeDubs will probably play up the whole damned "space communist" meme, and we'll start seeing Stalin-esque/North Korean-style propaganda posters in Tau related artwork. It wouldn't surprise me one bit. With catchy slogans like:


"Earth Caste Comrades Looking Ever Forward For The Greater Good!"

"Work For The Greater Good Is It's Own Reward"

"Smash Human Imperialism For The Greater Good!"

"Rejoice, Comrades! Patriotic Fire Caste Heroes Crush The Eldar Viper!"

"Onward, Comrades! End Ork Oppression For The Greater Good!"

I disagree with the ideas of all non-tau being second class citizens.it said something in IA V3 that the Gue'vesa weren't used as cannon fodder but as valuable troops who had a better place in the military. The tau are also very imperialistic and happily do anything as long as it follows the Greater Good.

 Peregrine wrote:

I don't think this was ever true. The Tau were always a thinly-veiled reference to manifest destiny and colonialism and all the horrible things done under those pretenses of virtue. The "greater good" they offer has always been the opportunity to submit to the Tau Empire (where all citizens are equal, but some are more equal than others) with the threat of death if you refuse. Their main "good" quality was (and is) the fact that they're pragmatic enough to use science and engineering instead of religious idiocy, and offer you a chance to surrender and be conquered at no cost to the Tau instead of mindlessly exterminating everything in their path. In most other settings they'd be the generic Evil Empire.

But, unfortunately, most people were too lazy to think about the Tau enough to see these references and took the whole Greater Good thing at face value. And so the Tau got more obvious grimdark thrown on top of their fluff in a desperate attempt to make it so obvious that even the most clueless Ultramarines fanboy couldn't possibly fail to miss it.

Honestly I was always under this impression as well and I so wish it was true.

 Vankraken wrote:
Considering the Tau don't really share too much of their technology with their alien allies and they operate as an auxiliary force as shock troopers. It leads me to believe that they tend to use them as needed to fulfill goals but care less about their survival as they do proper Tau. This isn't enemy at the gates penal battalion style waste of life but the Tau definitely value the lives of their own over that of alien auxiliaries. Also considering that Vespids where "convinced" to join the Greater Good through what is basically thought control doesn't speak highly of their concern for the wants of other races.

The 6th edition Codex states that the Tau do not even consider their automated drones to be expendable. You're literally just making stuff up now.

 Vankraken wrote:
The Greater Good is the Greater Good of the Tau Empire. They are incredibly imperialistic and treat their non Tau subjects as expendable resources and tools to be exploited. Even the common Tau is disposable if its for the benefit of the Empire. Tau propaganda wants everything to think that they are the good guys and they offer the promise of peace and prosperity as an incentive for cooperation which ultimately leads to subjugation. The Ethereal Caste have a means of thought control over their population and censor information that goes against the Greater Good. Socially the Tau Empire is a Utilitarian Fascist government with views of racial superiority and a universe wide manifest destiny. Their morality is that of fulfilling the needs of the Empire over the needs of the individual (except in protecting the lives of the Ethereals) with the Tau race being the priority over other races.

People look at the Tau as the hippie anime space commies which is a distorted view of the veneer they put on to convince others to join their empire and hide the ruthless and cold nature of the Tau leadership. Of course all the mech suits give off the vibe of anime tropes which also tends to irritate people. As you pointed out a lot of people look at the phrase "The Greater Good" and assume that the Tau are suppose to be the good guys. At best the Tau are neutral but honestly they tend to fall into the slightly darker shade of grey than the more true neutral factions like Nids or Orks (Nids want to eat, Orks want to party ).

And still better then 99 % of living in the imperium.

In the imperium unless you are noble born you are either doing backbreaking work in a factory or conscripted to fight the emperors wars.

If you lived in the universe as an average man (not a space marine not an inquistor not a noble ) you would chose living in the Tau empire over living in the imperium every time.

godking wrote:

 Vankraken wrote:
The Greater Good is the Greater Good of the Tau Empire. They are incredibly imperialistic and treat their non Tau subjects as expendable resources and tools to be exploited. Even the common Tau is disposable if its for the benefit of the Empire. Tau propaganda wants everything to think that they are the good guys and they offer the promise of peace and prosperity as an incentive for cooperation which ultimately leads to subjugation. The Ethereal Caste have a means of thought control over their population and censor information that goes against the Greater Good. Socially the Tau Empire is a Utilitarian Fascist government with views of racial superiority and a universe wide manifest destiny. Their morality is that of fulfilling the needs of the Empire over the needs of the individual (except in protecting the lives of the Ethereals) with the Tau race being the priority over other races.

People look at the Tau as the hippie anime space commies which is a distorted view of the veneer they put on to convince others to join their empire and hide the ruthless and cold nature of the Tau leadership. Of course all the mech suits give off the vibe of anime tropes which also tends to irritate people. As you pointed out a lot of people look at the phrase "The Greater Good" and assume that the Tau are suppose to be the good guys. At best the Tau are neutral but honestly they tend to fall into the slightly darker shade of grey than the more true neutral factions like Nids or Orks (Nids want to eat, Orks want to party ).

1) And still better then 99 % of living in the imperium.

2) In the imperium unless you are noble born you are either doing backbreaking work in a factory or conscripted to fight the emperors wars.

3) If you lived in the universe as an average man (not a space marine not an inquistor not a noble ) you would chose living in the Tau empire over living in the imperium every time.

1 = says who? Your Tau propaganda pamphlet I guess...
2 = Good. Awesome chance to die for your God-Emperor. You don't have your life wasted!
3 = surely not. Its a big galaxy and bazillions of living beiings in this 40k verse may never see a space marine or an inquisitior in their life, to know the Tau , a insignificant xeno empire , exist isn't likely for the "average man".
So no choice at all, no knowledge of them and no interest too , plus youre a traitor then and nobody likes them; seems your PoV is based on your "out of universe take on 40k" only...

godking wrote:

 Vankraken wrote:
The Greater Good is the Greater Good of the Tau Empire. They are incredibly imperialistic and treat their non Tau subjects as expendable resources and tools to be exploited. Even the common Tau is disposable if its for the benefit of the Empire. Tau propaganda wants everything to think that they are the good guys and they offer the promise of peace and prosperity as an incentive for cooperation which ultimately leads to subjugation. The Ethereal Caste have a means of thought control over their population and censor information that goes against the Greater Good. Socially the Tau Empire is a Utilitarian Fascist government with views of racial superiority and a universe wide manifest destiny. Their morality is that of fulfilling the needs of the Empire over the needs of the individual (except in protecting the lives of the Ethereals) with the Tau race being the priority over other races.

People look at the Tau as the hippie anime space commies which is a distorted view of the veneer they put on to convince others to join their empire and hide the ruthless and cold nature of the Tau leadership. Of course all the mech suits give off the vibe of anime tropes which also tends to irritate people. As you pointed out a lot of people look at the phrase "The Greater Good" and assume that the Tau are suppose to be the good guys. At best the Tau are neutral but honestly they tend to fall into the slightly darker shade of grey than the more true neutral factions like Nids or Orks (Nids want to eat, Orks want to party ).

And still better then 99 % of living in the imperium.

In the imperium unless you are noble born you are either doing backbreaking work in a factory or conscripted to fight the emperors wars.

If you lived in the universe as an average man (not a space marine not an inquistor not a noble ) you would chose living in the Tau empire over living in the imperium every time.

YOu make the mistake of overgeneralizing the IMperium of Man. YOu have every time of government imaginable in the IoM, from virtual Republics all the way up to authoritarian dictatorships; the Adminstratium doesn't regulate the constituent planets at all (outside of tithes and worshiping the Emperor). YOu have Utopic Meritocracies like Macragge alongside oppressive Hiveworlds where corruption and crime rule the entire planet alike. We just always hear about how oppressive the IoM is because the setting is supposed to be grimdark, and, evidently, having non-corrupt, non-oppressive governments in a grimdark world is heresy, even if said worlds are still doomed to get NOMMED!!! by Nids, consumed by an Ork WAAAAGHHH!!!, conquered by Chaos, or exterminated by Necrons.

Many of the Agri-worlds and Shrine Worlds are very nice places to live. The vast majority of the Imperium lives in hive cities, but not all of them. For many (even non-nobles), the Imperium is a decent place to live.

 dusara217 wrote:

godking wrote:

 Vankraken wrote:
The Greater Good is the Greater Good of the Tau Empire. They are incredibly imperialistic and treat their non Tau subjects as expendable resources and tools to be exploited. Even the common Tau is disposable if its for the benefit of the Empire. Tau propaganda wants everything to think that they are the good guys and they offer the promise of peace and prosperity as an incentive for cooperation which ultimately leads to subjugation. The Ethereal Caste have a means of thought control over their population and censor information that goes against the Greater Good. Socially the Tau Empire is a Utilitarian Fascist government with views of racial superiority and a universe wide manifest destiny. Their morality is that of fulfilling the needs of the Empire over the needs of the individual (except in protecting the lives of the Ethereals) with the Tau race being the priority over other races.

People look at the Tau as the hippie anime space commies which is a distorted view of the veneer they put on to convince others to join their empire and hide the ruthless and cold nature of the Tau leadership. Of course all the mech suits give off the vibe of anime tropes which also tends to irritate people. As you pointed out a lot of people look at the phrase "The Greater Good" and assume that the Tau are suppose to be the good guys. At best the Tau are neutral but honestly they tend to fall into the slightly darker shade of grey than the more true neutral factions like Nids or Orks (Nids want to eat, Orks want to party ).

And still better then 99 % of living in the imperium.

In the imperium unless you are noble born you are either doing backbreaking work in a factory or conscripted to fight the emperors wars.

If you lived in the universe as an average man (not a space marine not an inquistor not a noble ) you would chose living in the Tau empire over living in the imperium every time.

YOu make the mistake of overgeneralizing the IMperium of Man. YOu have every time of government imaginable in the IoM, from virtual Republics all the way up to authoritarian dictatorships; the Adminstratium doesn't regulate the constituent planets at all (outside of tithes and worshiping the Emperor). YOu have Utopic Meritocracies like Macragge alongside oppressive Hiveworlds where corruption and crime rule the entire planet alike. We just always hear about how oppressive the IoM is because the setting is supposed to be grimdark, and, evidently, having non-corrupt, non-oppressive governments in a grimdark world is heresy, even if said worlds are still doomed to get NOMMED!!! by Nids, consumed by an Ork WAAAAGHHH!!!, conquered by Chaos, or exterminated by Necrons.

Yes there are a few Paradise worlds . a few most average people don't live on those Paradise worlds. For every Macragge (And a space marine run world is not a fair example in my opinion) you have a hundred Nostromo like worlds.

The quality of life on A tau world is on average better then the quality of life on the average imperium world.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 EnTyme wrote:
Many of the Agri-worlds and Shrine Worlds are very nice places to live. The vast majority of the Imperium lives in hive cities, but not all of them. For many (even non-nobles), the Imperium is a decent place to live.

How many Agri & shrine worlds are there compared to Hive worlds ?

Unless you are one of the Lucky ones born on an agri/shrine world you are most likely dying slowly doing backbreaking work or fast due to ganger violence or being conscripted to fight the emperors wars.

Some places in the imperium are decent places to live.

Most if not all places in the Tau empire are decent places to live.

My ideal planet to live on in the 40k universe would be a planet cut of from the rest of the universe by warpstorms that the imperium has forgotten about with a decent level of tech but not a full on hive world.

godking wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:

godking wrote:

 Vankraken wrote:
The Greater Good is the Greater Good of the Tau Empire. They are incredibly imperialistic and treat their non Tau subjects as expendable resources and tools to be exploited. Even the common Tau is disposable if its for the benefit of the Empire. Tau propaganda wants everything to think that they are the good guys and they offer the promise of peace and prosperity as an incentive for cooperation which ultimately leads to subjugation. The Ethereal Caste have a means of thought control over their population and censor information that goes against the Greater Good. Socially the Tau Empire is a Utilitarian Fascist government with views of racial superiority and a universe wide manifest destiny. Their morality is that of fulfilling the needs of the Empire over the needs of the individual (except in protecting the lives of the Ethereals) with the Tau race being the priority over other races.

People look at the Tau as the hippie anime space commies which is a distorted view of the veneer they put on to convince others to join their empire and hide the ruthless and cold nature of the Tau leadership. Of course all the mech suits give off the vibe of anime tropes which also tends to irritate people. As you pointed out a lot of people look at the phrase "The Greater Good" and assume that the Tau are suppose to be the good guys. At best the Tau are neutral but honestly they tend to fall into the slightly darker shade of grey than the more true neutral factions like Nids or Orks (Nids want to eat, Orks want to party ).

And still better then 99 % of living in the imperium.

In the imperium unless you are noble born you are either doing backbreaking work in a factory or conscripted to fight the emperors wars.

If you lived in the universe as an average man (not a space marine not an inquistor not a noble ) you would chose living in the Tau empire over living in the imperium every time.

YOu make the mistake of overgeneralizing the IMperium of Man. YOu have every time of government imaginable in the IoM, from virtual Republics all the way up to authoritarian dictatorships; the Adminstratium doesn't regulate the constituent planets at all (outside of tithes and worshiping the Emperor). YOu have Utopic Meritocracies like Macragge alongside oppressive Hiveworlds where corruption and crime rule the entire planet alike. We just always hear about how oppressive the IoM is because the setting is supposed to be grimdark, and, evidently, having non-corrupt, non-oppressive governments in a grimdark world is heresy, even if said worlds are still doomed to get NOMMED!!! by Nids, consumed by an Ork WAAAAGHHH!!!, conquered by Chaos, or exterminated by Necrons.

Yes there are a few Paradise worlds . a few most average people don't live on those Paradise worlds. For every Macragge (And a space marine run world is not a fair example in my opinion) you have a hundred Nostromo like worlds.

The quality of life on A tau world is on average better then the quality of life on the average imperium world.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 EnTyme wrote:
Many of the Agri-worlds and Shrine Worlds are very nice places to live. The vast majority of the Imperium lives in hive cities, but not all of them. For many (even non-nobles), the Imperium is a decent place to live.

How many Agri & shrine worlds are there compared to Hive worlds ?

Unless you are one of the Lucky ones born on an agri/shrine world you are most likely dying slowly doing backbreaking work or fast due to ganger violence or being conscripted to fight the emperors wars.

Some places in the imperium are decent places to live.

Most if not all places in the Tau empire are decent places to live.

My ideal planet to live on in the 40k universe would be a planet cut of from the rest of the universe by warpstorms that the imperium has forgotten about with a decent level of tech but not a full on hive world.

There are very few shrine worlds, but the Agri-worlds are meant to feed the Hive Worlds and Forge Worlds, so there are almost as many Agri-worlds as there are Hive/Forge Worlds. The population of each is significantly lower, though. Also, you seem to be ignoring the whole point of this thread: The Tau Empire looks nice and shiny from a distance, but when you look closer, you realize that's it's just from all the grease.

I think it's more a non-viable distopia thing. The tau empire is great... [i[if[/i] you just do what you are told, don't question authority, ect.

godking wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:

godking wrote:

 Vankraken wrote:
The Greater Good is the Greater Good of the Tau Empire. They are incredibly imperialistic and treat their non Tau subjects as expendable resources and tools to be exploited. Even the common Tau is disposable if its for the benefit of the Empire. Tau propaganda wants everything to think that they are the good guys and they offer the promise of peace and prosperity as an incentive for cooperation which ultimately leads to subjugation. The Ethereal Caste have a means of thought control over their population and censor information that goes against the Greater Good. Socially the Tau Empire is a Utilitarian Fascist government with views of racial superiority and a universe wide manifest destiny. Their morality is that of fulfilling the needs of the Empire over the needs of the individual (except in protecting the lives of the Ethereals) with the Tau race being the priority over other races.

People look at the Tau as the hippie anime space commies which is a distorted view of the veneer they put on to convince others to join their empire and hide the ruthless and cold nature of the Tau leadership. Of course all the mech suits give off the vibe of anime tropes which also tends to irritate people. As you pointed out a lot of people look at the phrase "The Greater Good" and assume that the Tau are suppose to be the good guys. At best the Tau are neutral but honestly they tend to fall into the slightly darker shade of grey than the more true neutral factions like Nids or Orks (Nids want to eat, Orks want to party ).

And still better then 99 % of living in the imperium.

In the imperium unless you are noble born you are either doing backbreaking work in a factory or conscripted to fight the emperors wars.

If you lived in the universe as an average man (not a space marine not an inquistor not a noble ) you would chose living in the Tau empire over living in the imperium every time.

YOu make the mistake of overgeneralizing the IMperium of Man. YOu have every time of government imaginable in the IoM, from virtual Republics all the way up to authoritarian dictatorships; the Adminstratium doesn't regulate the constituent planets at all (outside of tithes and worshiping the Emperor). YOu have Utopic Meritocracies like Macragge alongside oppressive Hiveworlds where corruption and crime rule the entire planet alike. We just always hear about how oppressive the IoM is because the setting is supposed to be grimdark, and, evidently, having non-corrupt, non-oppressive governments in a grimdark world is heresy, even if said worlds are still doomed to get NOMMED!!! by Nids, consumed by an Ork WAAAAGHHH!!!, conquered by Chaos, or exterminated by Necrons.

Yes there are a few Paradise worlds . a few most average people don't live on those Paradise worlds. For every Macragge (And a space marine run world is not a fair example in my opinion) you have a hundred Nostromo like worlds.

The quality of life on A tau world is on average better then the quality of life on the average imperium world.



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 EnTyme wrote:
Many of the Agri-worlds and Shrine Worlds are very nice places to live. The vast majority of the Imperium lives in hive cities, but not all of them. For many (even non-nobles), the Imperium is a decent place to live.

How many Agri & shrine worlds are there compared to Hive worlds ?

Unless you are one of the Lucky ones born on an agri/shrine world you are most likely dying slowly doing backbreaking work or fast due to ganger violence or being conscripted to fight the emperors wars.

Some places in the imperium are decent places to live.

Most if not all places in the Tau empire are decent places to live.

My ideal planet to live on in the 40k universe would be a planet cut of from the rest of the universe by warpstorms that the imperium has forgotten about with a decent level of tech but not a full on hive world.

3rd Edition BRB says that there are 550,000 Civilized and Agri-Worlds, compared to 140,000 Hive Worlds. Civilized worlds (again) including Utopias, Socialist governmnets (akin to what, say, the Brits have), brutal dictatorships, and everything in between. Some of these worlds are gak places to live, but many of them are just fine.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
I think it's more a non-viable distopia thing. The tau empire is great... [i[if[/i] you just do what you are told, don't question authority, ect.

Says who?

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
I think it's more a non-viable distopia thing. The tau empire is great... [i[if[/i] you just do what you are told, don't question authority, ect.

Ah, yes, glorious opinions, lots of fun. Any fluff to back it up, though?

 dusara217 wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
I think it's more a non-viable distopia thing. The tau empire is great... [i[if[/i] you just do what you are told, don't question authority, ect.

Ah, yes, glorious opinions, lots of fun. Any fluff to back it up, though?

I'm a way from my books at the moment, but I recall a quote from the 6th edition saying that when tau take over worlds they get cleaner air and water, more efficiency, ect. I'll have to go get it when I get home.


And what I'm talking about there is not "I think this is what happens" and more how I think it was designed to look from a narrative perspective.

 Pumpkin wrote:
Context. Even though the Tau are far from being truly good, the heretic-burning, xenos-eradicating, planetary genocide-loving Imperium is an order of magnitude worse.

The Imperium of Man is a grisly nightmare state of grimdark proportions. At least there's a bit of nuance to the Tau. I think the similarly subtle Eldar make for a far more interesting comparison to them.

No, the Tau are no better than the Imperium. Worse, actually, because at least the Imperium has the sense to be human.

Those heretics, xenos and genocided planets? They had it coming. Deserved everything that happened to them.

then you should define the terms good and bad in this context. becaus sense of beeing human is in 40k not a thing that sells itself.