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Stuff like that honestly saddens me.

This, from the country where a social worker was recently stabbed to death by an asylum seeker?

Ahh 2016 what a year to be alive!

Thank goodness we are punishing those who defend themselves!

Someone go comfort that poor poor rapist he must be very scared at the idea of people fighting back.


for the OT:

mace/pepper spray is illegal in canada too, but bear/dog spray is not despite being basically the same thing

(we have similar laws that say you cannot state the intent of the bear/dog spray is to defend vs humans, but if you just happen to have it and use it its technically not a crime as its stated use/intention is animal control)

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
This, from the country where a social worker was recently stabbed to death by an asylum seeker?

Sweden and Denmark are not the same countries last time I looked.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
This, from the country where a social worker was recently stabbed to death by an asylum seeker?

Sweden and Denmark are not the same countries last time I looked.

Rightfully so! /s

Damn right.



On an on-topic note, I very much prefer the spray to be legal. It's nowhere near the same thing as carrying a gun, and seems like a perfectly reasonable defense tool.

Is there a reason why pepperspray isn't legal in Denmark? I could go down to a toy (ish) store and buy some right now!

 CptJake wrote:
Stuff like that honestly saddens me.

Why? None of those countries are dictatorships. Those voters elected the lawmakers who passed regulations making it nearly impossible to defend themselves against physical attack.

My sympathy meter for them is resting on the peg.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Matthew wrote:
Is there a reason why pepperspray isn't legal in Denmark? I could go down to a toy (ish) store and buy some right now!

Because Danish voters deem it more socially acceptable for a person to be raped than for a person to carry a non-leathal weapon.

jwr wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
Stuff like that honestly saddens me.

Why? None of those countries are dictatorships. Those voters elected the lawmakers who passed regulations making it nearly impossible to defend themselves against physical attack.

My sympathy meter for them is resting on the peg.

Why? Simply put, seeing any victim of this type of crime punished for attempting self defense is awful.

 Matthew wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
This, from the country where a social worker was recently stabbed to death by an asylum seeker?

Sweden and Denmark are not the same countries last time I looked.

Rightfully so! /s

Oops, my bad. Must have missed the bit in the article that named the country, read the name of the city and jumped to conclusions.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
IIRC, wasn't there an American woman murdered by a 'migrant' in Austria recently?

 CptJake wrote:

jwr wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
Stuff like that honestly saddens me.

Why? None of those countries are dictatorships. Those voters elected the lawmakers who passed regulations making it nearly impossible to defend themselves against physical attack.

My sympathy meter for them is resting on the peg.

Why? Simply put, seeing any victim of this type of crime punished for attempting self defense is awful.

Because the voters in that country have chosen to punish people far attempting self defense in their quest for a stable society, and nobody is forced to live there. There are no border guards keeping them from moving to a country where it's okay to mace someone who's trying to rape you. There is nothing stopping them from electing lawmakers who will protect potential victims when they defend themselves. It is up to them.

I'll save my sympathy for those who don't have a real choice.

The young lady who defended herself did not have a choice.

Obviously the US is all over this, seeing as you can defend yourselves however you like. Clearly no one ever gets raped, or charged for using force, or using an illegal weapon to defend themselves in the States.
We in Europe should be ashamed of ourselves for having differing laws, and attitudes to weapons. We suck, sorry about that.

 r_squared wrote:
Obviously the US is all over this, seeing as you can defend yourselves however you like. Clearly no one ever gets raped, or charged for using force, or using an illegal weapon to defend themselves in the States.
We in Europe should be ashamed of ourselves for having differing laws, and attitudes to weapons. We suck, sorry about that.

If that was directed at me, I don't think you can find a post I made in this topic extolling the virtues of US law or making any comparison to European country laws. I would feel bad for anyone, in any country who got in trouble for defending themselves from a sexual assault.

No it wain't aimed at you. It was just getting pretty tiresome reading the self righteous rubbish being spouted all over this thread.

@thread,
No country is perfect, so let's not get so judgemental about this shall we?

 CptJake wrote:
The young lady who defended herself did not have a choice.

Of course she had a choice. She chose to obtain, carry and use an illegal item. No different than if I decided to make a landmine to guard my house and it blows up an armed robber. There are legal mean I can use, and it's up to me to follow the law.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 r_squared wrote:
Obviously the US is all over this, seeing as you can defend yourselves however you like. Clearly no one ever gets raped, or charged for using force, or using an illegal weapon to defend themselves in the States.
We in Europe should be ashamed of ourselves for having differing laws, and attitudes to weapons. We suck, sorry about that.

Why should Europe be ashamed of themselves? Most European countries have taken a certain position on carrying and using certain items such as handguns, knives or chemical spray, and they had their reasons for doing so. It's not like they made self defense illegal, they just limited the means. Can't carry mace? Learn Krav Maga.

Every country everywhere should teach their civilians the most awesome of ninja moves.

 Matthew wrote:
Is there a reason why pepperspray isn't legal in Denmark? I could go down to a toy (ish) store and buy some right now!

Because it's an inflammatory agent rather than a simple irritant, would be my guess.

Can they use other sprays? Mace?

The impression I am getting from this thread is that pepper spray, mace, stun guns, what ever are considered weapons and are potentially used offensively and are therefore illegal for civilians to have/use even defensively.

I don't know what the actual laws are though.

 kronk wrote:
Can they use other sprays? Mace?

My understanding of the law is that mace is legal and pepper spray is illegal.

Since they want to make a society of victims and tie their hands behind their backs and simply accept being raped or robbed, then for someone who wants to exercise their right to fight back it brings us to... carry a can of wasp spray. Shoots 20 feet and will blind someone or at least make them have a coughing fit enabling you time to get away. If anyone says anything, say your allergic to wasps.

Cant even carry a large stick or baton? People here carry them when they go walking just to protect themselves from the random angry dog. No that isn't an issue we actually have locally, but people do it anyway.

I think you are perhaps overstating the outrage a little there chap. By that reckoning I might expect to see a US news heading of "woman arrests for fighting attempted rapist off with a flamethrower". There's some things allowed in society and some that are not. Criminals existing is not an excuse for a free for all.

People are allowed to have sticks in Europe, I'm not sure where you would have garners that gem from.

Anyway 20 feet with a wasp spray? What the feth kind of wasps or indeed aerosols are you guys packing out there?

Wasps and some hornets often build nests under roof overhangs. You need a spray that can reach them.

 CptJake wrote:
Wasps and some hornets often build nests under roof overhangs. You need a spray that can reach them.

Exactly. The shortest range wasp spray I sell at work is 21'. Longest is 27'. Also US wasps make UK wasps look like gnats.

And they are fast so I want as much range as I can get. That and I prefer to stay out of the splatter zone and avoid getting contact nerve poison on me when I can. I go through two cans a year on my house, they love my eaves for some reason.

Might be sidetracking, but does anyone know what my rights are if a dog attacks me without provocation? I often go out running and I'd prefer to know what to do if I get attacked.

 notprop wrote:
I think you are perhaps overstating the outrage a little there chap. By that reckoning I might expect to see a US news heading of "woman arrests for fighting attempted rapist off with a flamethrower".

Pretty sure flamethrowers are unregulated in most states.

In retrospect I did type that knowing you can get them in the US after seeing a programme recently where a US "historian" went a found some working examples to tickle his immolating itch. Hilariously he even found a Flamethrower restorer, because obviously they must exist in any normal list of tradesmen.

It's just so bonkers that a weapon universally outlawed and removed from the arsenals of most world armies including the US is legitimately available to Joe Average of Crutchville County if he so chooses.

Obviously laws will vary by state and municipality. I know that in some places they are only available as part of certain industries, other places allow anyone to own one.