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Make sure everyone carefully notes the date of today's newsletter.

I can only imagine how many angry emails you've gotten. Almost got me except I followed th newsletter and clicked the link to actually check the primer updates ;p

So adapticon rule that Lone wolves can satisfy the force organization tax without telling everyone, would this be the case for Nova? And also what about servitors satisfying the elite tax with Iron Priests for tCoTGW Det? I've been trying to figure this out since the new SW release.

Phil, the 40k head to and faq lead, is playing at adepticon right now, but sure he'll get on it soon after return. Lone wolf thing is probably a big no. TBD.

 SonsofVulkan wrote:
So adapticon rule that Lone wolves can satisfy the force organization tax without telling everyone, would this be the case for Nova? And also what about servitors satisfying the elite tax with Iron Priests for tCoTGW Det? I've been trying to figure this out since the new SW release.

Can't say officially, but yeah, not happening.

 SonsofVulkan wrote:
So adapticon rule that Lone wolves can satisfy the force organization tax without telling everyone, would this be the case for Nova? And also what about servitors satisfying the elite tax with Iron Priests for tCoTGW Det? I've been trying to figure this out since the new SW release.

In my hotel room after a long day and my eyes are crossing so if this is a bit abrupt please forgive me.

I'm the Phil Mike is talking about, so I can respond.

No and no.

 elphilo wrote:

 SonsofVulkan wrote:
So adapticon rule that Lone wolves can satisfy the force organization tax without telling everyone, would this be the case for Nova? And also what about servitors satisfying the elite tax with Iron Priests for tCoTGW Det? I've been trying to figure this out since the new SW release.

In my hotel room after a long day and my eyes are crossing so if this is a bit abrupt please forgive me.

I'm the Phil Mike is talking about, so I can respond.

No and no.

Haha ok, I guess adapticon messed up bad... So un-professional for a major GT.

Another question: the slay rank and file secondary, do the conjured troop units also have to be destroyed to score this objective?

You gotta know just because we rule differently doesn't mean adepticon is somehow a screw up.

It's hard to define secret rulings that contradict raw as anything other than a screw up.

That's fine, and an argument for the adepticon thread.

SonsofVulkan wrote:

 elphilo wrote:

 SonsofVulkan wrote:
So adapticon rule that Lone wolves can satisfy the force organization tax without telling everyone, would this be the case for Nova? And also what about servitors satisfying the elite tax with Iron Priests for tCoTGW Det? I've been trying to figure this out since the new SW release.

In my hotel room after a long day and my eyes are crossing so if this is a bit abrupt please forgive me.

I'm the Phil Mike is talking about, so I can respond.

No and no.

Haha ok, I guess adapticon messed up bad... So un-professional for a major GT.

Another question: the slay rank and file secondary, do the conjured troop units also have to be destroyed to score this objective?

Yes, they're still considered troops regardless of them not being apart of a detachment.

MVBrandt wrote:You gotta know just because we rule differently doesn't mean adepticon is somehow a screw up.

Yep! Just because we interpret things differently doesn't mean they screwed up at all. Formats rule on things differently all the time.

Less than 100 hotel rooms remain in the Hyatt.
https://aws.passkey.com/g/55247835

For serious.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well, that took; 10 more rooms have been booked today.

General question: Can you attach ICs to the Vanguard Squad from Shadowstrike Kill Team and retain assault from deep strike provided the ICs are from the same detachment? I.E. can I attach the Captain from the demi-company and still use the Shadowstrike rules since both would exist as part of the Talon Strike Force?

PanzerLeader wrote:
General question: Can you attach ICs to the Vanguard Squad from Shadowstrike Kill Team and retain assault from deep strike provided the ICs are from the same detachment? I.E. can I attach the Captain from the demi-company and still use the Shadowstrike rules since both would exist as part of the Talon Strike Force?

This is a special rule that doesn't specifically say it confers to the IC that joined, so the IC doesn't get the benefit of it. We handle this the same way we handle the Skyhammer assault formation as well.

 elphilo wrote:

PanzerLeader wrote:
General question: Can you attach ICs to the Vanguard Squad from Shadowstrike Kill Team and retain assault from deep strike provided the ICs are from the same detachment? I.E. can I attach the Captain from the demi-company and still use the Shadowstrike rules since both would exist as part of the Talon Strike Force?

This is a special rule that doesn't specifically say it confers to the IC that joined, so the IC doesn't get the benefit of it. We handle this the same way we handle the Skyhammer assault formation as well.

So by extension, a necron IC from a CAD attached to a unit from a Reclamation Legion within 12" of the overlord wouldn't benefit from Enhanced Reanimation Protocols? And ICs attached to wulfen would negate bounding leap?

PanzerLeader wrote:

 elphilo wrote:

PanzerLeader wrote:
General question: Can you attach ICs to the Vanguard Squad from Shadowstrike Kill Team and retain assault from deep strike provided the ICs are from the same detachment? I.E. can I attach the Captain from the demi-company and still use the Shadowstrike rules since both would exist as part of the Talon Strike Force?

This is a special rule that doesn't specifically say it confers to the IC that joined, so the IC doesn't get the benefit of it. We handle this the same way we handle the Skyhammer assault formation as well.

So by extension, a necron IC from a CAD attached to a unit from a Reclamation Legion within 12" of the overlord wouldn't benefit from Enhanced Reanimation Protocols? And ICs attached to wulfen would negate bounding leap?

Correct.

 elphilo wrote:

PanzerLeader wrote:

 elphilo wrote:

PanzerLeader wrote:
General question: Can you attach ICs to the Vanguard Squad from Shadowstrike Kill Team and retain assault from deep strike provided the ICs are from the same detachment? I.E. can I attach the Captain from the demi-company and still use the Shadowstrike rules since both would exist as part of the Talon Strike Force?

This is a special rule that doesn't specifically say it confers to the IC that joined, so the IC doesn't get the benefit of it. We handle this the same way we handle the Skyhammer assault formation as well.

So by extension, a necron IC from a CAD attached to a unit from a Reclamation Legion within 12" of the overlord wouldn't benefit from Enhanced Reanimation Protocols? And ICs attached to wulfen would negate bounding leap?

Correct.

Ok. I'm following so far. So if a regular IC joins an Objective Secured unit, the unit would loss Objective Secured since it does not specifically confer?

PanzerLeader wrote:

Spoiler:

 elphilo wrote:

PanzerLeader wrote:

 elphilo wrote:

PanzerLeader wrote:
General question: Can you attach ICs to the Vanguard Squad from Shadowstrike Kill Team and retain assault from deep strike provided the ICs are from the same detachment? I.E. can I attach the Captain from the demi-company and still use the Shadowstrike rules since both would exist as part of the Talon Strike Force?

This is a special rule that doesn't specifically say it confers to the IC that joined, so the IC doesn't get the benefit of it. We handle this the same way we handle the Skyhammer assault formation as well.

So by extension, a necron IC from a CAD attached to a unit from a Reclamation Legion within 12" of the overlord wouldn't benefit from Enhanced Reanimation Protocols? And ICs attached to wulfen would negate bounding leap?

Correct.

Ok. I'm following so far. So if a regular IC joins an Objective Secured unit, the unit would loss Objective Secured since it does not specifically confer?

Ah I didn't explain it correctly, my apologies. Just because the IC joins the unit doesn't mean the unit loses the special rule, it just means the special rule doesn't confer to the IC unless it specifically says it does. In some instances it means the unit can't use their special rule.

Skyhammer and Bounding Leap are an example of they still have it but cannot use it because not all models in the unit have the special rule allowing them to assault after a condition that normally doesn't allow them to assault.

The Reclamation Legion and Objective Secured rule will still be in effect, just not on the IC that joined the unit. So that means if your Necron IC joins the unit, the unit still gains the benefit of Enhanced Reanimation Protocols, the IC that joined does not. The Objective Secured unit still has Objective Secured, the IC that joined them does not. Meaning if the IC is the only model within 3" of an objective it can still be contested by a non-Objective Secured unit.

I hope this clears it up a bit.

 elphilo wrote:


Ah I didn't explain it correctly, my apologies. Just because the IC joins the unit doesn't mean the unit loses the special rule, it just means the special rule doesn't confer to the IC unless it specifically says it does. In some instances it means the unit can't use their special rule.

Skyhammer and Bounding Leap are an example of they still have it but cannot use it because not all models in the unit have the special rule allowing them to assault after a condition that normally doesn't allow them to assault.

The Reclamation Legion and Objective Secured rule will still be in effect, just not on the IC that joined the unit. So that means if your Necron IC joins the unit, the unit still gains the benefit of Enhanced Reanimation Protocols, the IC that joined does not. The Objective Secured unit still has Objective Secured, the IC that joined them does not. Meaning if the IC is the only model within 3" of an objective it can still be contested by a non-Objective Secured unit.

I hope this clears it up a bit.

I think so. One last hypothetical: if an IC starts on the board (and thus could normally launch an assault) and moves into coherency with a Vanguard Vet unit that arrives from deep strike, could the unit still assault since all models have permission to assault under normal circumstances?

I think an IC model would secure an objective because he's "part of the unit" for all purposes, and it's the unit that has the Objective Secured rule.

 axisofentropy wrote:
I think an IC model would secure an objective because he's "part of the unit" for all purposes, and it's the unit that has the Objective Secured rule.

The Vanguard Veteran unit in the Kill Team has a rule allowing them to charge and an IC model would be "part of the unit" for all purposes there too. I don't agree with El Philo's interpretation but I do appreciate his reasoning and his consistency in applying it to different rules.

Edit: For additional clarity, I fully respect his right to make the decisions as the judge and one of the T.O.s. I'm mostly asking for my own understanding ahead of time here so I'm aware of what I'm getting in to.

PanzerLeader wrote:

 elphilo wrote:

PanzerLeader wrote:

 elphilo wrote:

PanzerLeader wrote:
General question: Can you attach ICs to the Vanguard Squad from Shadowstrike Kill Team and retain assault from deep strike provided the ICs are from the same detachment? I.E. can I attach the Captain from the demi-company and still use the Shadowstrike rules since both would exist as part of the Talon Strike Force?

This is a special rule that doesn't specifically say it confers to the IC that joined, so the IC doesn't get the benefit of it. We handle this the same way we handle the Skyhammer assault formation as well.

So by extension, a necron IC from a CAD attached to a unit from a Reclamation Legion within 12" of the overlord wouldn't benefit from Enhanced Reanimation Protocols? And ICs attached to wulfen would negate bounding leap?

Correct.

Ok. I'm following so far. So if a regular IC joins an Objective Secured unit, the unit would loss Objective Secured since it does not specifically confer?

-"Objective Secured: "All Troops units from this Detachment have the Objective Secured special rule. A unit with this special rule controls objectives even if an enemy scoring unit is within range of the objective marker, unless the enemy unit also has this special rule"
-"While an Independent Character is part of a unit, he counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes, though he still follows the rules for characters." "
-"When an Independent Character joins a unit, it might have different special rules from those of the unit. Unless specified in the rule itself (as in the Stubborn special rule), the unit’s special rules are not conferred upon the Independent Character, and the Independent Character’s special rules are not conferred upon the unit."

-"Enhanced Reanimation Protocols: You can re-roll Reanimation Protocols rolls of 1 for the Overlord from this Formation (or the model taken in place of the Overlord) and units from this Formation that are within 12" of him."
-"Vanguard Veterans Squads from this Formation can charge on the turn they arrive from Deep Strike..."

As such, the rules for Reclamation Legion or the Vanguard do not apply when an IC is attached due to the rules for characters; those rules do not work because a) [Necron]he is not part of the formation for re-animation, and b) [Raven Guard] while he counts as part of the unit, he is not a Vanguard Veteran from the Formation, and and as such does not have access to the special rule. Therefore, the requirements for the rule are not met and the abilities do not work because of that.

Objective Secured still applies, attaching the IC to a unit does not remove them from being Troops, therefore the unit meets the requirement to be Objective Secured. The IC, while being part of the unit does not preclude them from still being Troops. In essence, he is a unit unto himself (which is why you can get First Blood for killing an IC in a unit while the unit is alive).

@djdarknoise: That is an inconsistent reading. The full rule from the Kill Team says "Vanguard Veteran Squads." Attaching an IC does not stop the unit from being a "Vanguard Veteran Squad." Attaching a Necron IC from a CAD does not preclude the unit from being part of a Reclamation Legion.

Elphilo is 100% consistent in his application of the Special Rules section of the IC section with his call on objective secured. It is a special rule given to the squad that does not have permission to confer. While I might disagree about whether this should take precedence over "part of the unit for all rules purposes," I thoroughly appreciate his reasoning and his consistency.

PanzerLeader wrote:

Spoiler:

 elphilo wrote:


Ah I didn't explain it correctly, my apologies. Just because the IC joins the unit doesn't mean the unit loses the special rule, it just means the special rule doesn't confer to the IC unless it specifically says it does. In some instances it means the unit can't use their special rule.

Skyhammer and Bounding Leap are an example of they still have it but cannot use it because not all models in the unit have the special rule allowing them to assault after a condition that normally doesn't allow them to assault.

The Reclamation Legion and Objective Secured rule will still be in effect, just not on the IC that joined the unit. So that means if your Necron IC joins the unit, the unit still gains the benefit of Enhanced Reanimation Protocols, the IC that joined does not. The Objective Secured unit still has Objective Secured, the IC that joined them does not. Meaning if the IC is the only model within 3" of an objective it can still be contested by a non-Objective Secured unit.

I hope this clears it up a bit.

I think so. One last hypothetical: if an IC starts on the board (and thus could normally launch an assault) and moves into coherency with a Vanguard Vet unit that arrives from deep strike, could the unit still assault since all models have permission to assault under normal circumstances?

Yes. All the models in this scenario do have permission to assault and may do so.

axisofentropy wrote:I think an IC model would secure an objective because he's "part of the unit" for all purposes, and it's the unit that has the Objective Secured rule.

We've interpreted that Command Benefits are special rules and since Objective Secured dosn't specifically say it confers to the IC we believe the IC won't get Objective Secured.

@elphilo: Thanks for the quick and consistent responses! Much appreciated.

PanzerLeader wrote:
@elphilo: Thanks for the quick and consistent responses! Much appreciated.

My pleasure!

Hey guys I just wanted to let you all know that we've updated our packet (located here: https://goo.gl/CDOMls). We've created an experimental mission that we'd love to hear feedback for either in this thread or in an email sent to novaopen@gmail.com

I've also updated the mission clarification section and I need to apologize to what I said earlier with strike the rank and file and summoned troops in this thread. After some serious thought and discussion with people, we've decided to make it so that summoned troops DO NOT need to be destroyed in order to gain this secondary. We've also made it so ICs in a unit only count as one unit for Points and Regions.

First time ever war gaming event for me and the gf, are there any open tables for casual 40k or AOS? Wanting to know if I should bring my armies or not, not signing up for tournaments, we aren't competitive at all and can hardly remember the basic rules let alone pages of tournament specific instructions lol!

I did sign up for the LOTR narrative for 5 bucks to dip my toes in, but other than narrative games, is there any open tables we could use to play?

Reaper, you may want to seriously consider the kill teams missions for the narrative. They're a decent way to dip your toes in and have some fun with time inbetween to roam, see people's armies, watch matches, etc.

You might certainly find some people for open play, but if they're anything like me, 3+ serious games in a day leaves me too mentally drained for more non-serious 40k lol. Usually for a few days after the tournament as well.

Reaper, I pretty much echo GreyDragoon. Almost everybody at the convention has a basically full schedule lined up and in their open periods desperately needs a nap or just some quiet downtime. Players also don't tend to congregate in one place outside of actual events. People are off in the vendor hall, at the bar, food trucks, checking out other gaming halls, etc. So just walking in with models in hopes of getting in a totally open pick-up game would be a bit tough.

A few of the game systems though have what are essentially scheduled, semi-organized, pick-up games. That way there's a time and a place for those people who just want a couple loose, more casual games to get together and battle. For 40k those are the Narrative Recon Squads. There's two such events on both Friday and Saturday, and you can sign up for them individually, picking and choosing when you're available. They're small, quick-playing skirmish games, so they're pretty beginner friendly. Recon Squad/Kill Team is based around 200 point armies with restrictions on armour/wounds/etc.. Each model operates on its own so it's a very different way to play 40k, but uses all the usual core rules and mechanics so there's no real learning curve. The missions will be tied into the larger NOVA 40k Narrative track, but these will be very casual games. You can check out the details in the event primer. I'm the organizer for those events, so I'd be happy to answer any questions about the rules, army construction, etc..

Personally I think you could have a pretty good day, well worth the registration, by signing up for one or two of those Recon Squad matches, maybe a seminar, and otherwise wandering around the halls and vendor area.