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So theres a growing consensus SWs will be the next release for February.
What are your hopes and dreams for the Sons of Russ in terms of a new codex and updates?

Personally I dont think the Wolves are that bad currently but they arent top tier either. I'd like to see some sort of force multipliers or army buffs to increase their hth capability in fitting with the fluff. Some form of rage buff, extra attacks when attacking in certain situations (maybe like if model count > X to reflect their headlong charges etc).
I feel many of us would like a buff to Blood Claws and Wolf Guard but what might that look like?

What sort of chapter tactics rules could they get (if any)?

They won't get chapter tactics as a rule because super friends and being favoured by GW. They just get bog standard Acute Senses and Counter Attack. There may be some other bonuses, I don't think Dark Angels kept the exact same tactics.

Plastic Wolf priest would be cool.

Hopefully they make TWC more expensive. My Nob Bikers look on with envy at the minute.

I think it would be fitting to see all the various Blood Claw units get boosted to WS4/BS3... The only thing the native Fenrisians do is fight tooth claw and nail for survival on their harsh world, in between the constant tribal/clan warfare.
BS3 may make perfect sense for them, as the SW's recruitment methods don't place any thought to firearms training until *after* an aspirant has become a Blood Claw.
WS3 however makes 0 sense at all though, as even regular Fenrisians are skilled enough to beat the living snot out of your typical fully trained Guardsman in hand to hand combat, and the Aspirant training only makes recruits even better at punching things to death!

Dreadnoughts obviously should match the apparent 'new' statline and go up to A4 each.

Vehicles will likely get the squadron treatment.

If a new Longfangs kit is in the works, then I personally hope that GW gives them a man-portable Frostcannon instead of just spamming yet more stupid Grav everywhere... Leave Grav as the "Codex" exclusive, and let the Wolves expand on their Frost weaponry as a way to keep things flavourful & unique!


I have a feeling that this new Space Wolves codex will become the stand-in 'counts as' for us poor Chaos players, as even now, SW's play our style of game about 100x better than we can!

Decurion style book, on par with the rest of the new releases. Formations that create synergy and fun times. A book that doesn't scream "Codex Thunderwolves".

Really I just am looking for the dreadnought attack increase and maybe a couple of useful formations. Bloodclaws fluff wise would have higher WS, but they are cheaper than assault squads when you don't add a wolfguard and cost the same with him and they get rage/he is better than the sergeant counterpart. I would just like a better delivery system for them that isn't really expensive. Drop pods are good but leave them in the open.

Are we really down to two responses before a thread completely unrelated to one of the currently UP codexes gets a UP codex complaint? Is that what were doing?

Anyway, I've been a good wolf all year so I want Santa Grimnar to bring me updated Ulrick and Ragnar sculpts. It'd be cool to see a "space wolf hero" sprue ala the Chaos Termie Lord that can make Wolf Priest, Wolf Lord, Ulrick, and Ragnar.

I want my old wolf scout rules back.

Are we really down to two responses before a thread completely unrelated to one of the currently UP codexes gets a UP codex complaint? Is that what were doing?

I have no idea what you're asking.

Aside from adding a Decurion and possibly a few stat changes to match the new SM book, I don't think they will include much else.

Unless Ulrik gets a power sled of his own.

 derpyhooves72 wrote:
Decurion style book, on par with the rest of the new releases. Formations that create synergy and fun times. A book that doesn't scream "Codex Thunderwolves".

As long as Thunderwolves exist, it will always be "Codex Thunderwolves". If it's a Decurion style codex, then guaranteed one of those formations will be a Thunderwolf Formation, and it will make an already OP unit even more OP. So now, all those Thunderwolf Players will be taking two Thunderwolf Formations and getting the best of everything.

Thunderwolves were the worst thing to ever happen to that codex. I wish they would go away.

Great Father Winter on his Sled pulled by Fenrision Wolves needs to go too. Really, this last codex was a travesty of units.

Sorry, I just have a great deal of dissatisfaction with the the last two codex rewrites.

Blood Claws should NOT get 4 BS/WS. If they get bumped up, then what's the difference between a Blood Claw and a Grey Hunter? +1 LD? I'd never take Grey Hunters again if Blood Claws go 4 BW/WS.

Murderfang has got to go. His rules don't work. I'd like to see SW Venerable Dreads get +1 AV on the front- or something to more to aid in their durability. Oh, and 4A would be nice. 5 on a Venerable would make it awesome.

I doubt we'll ever see it again, but the Leman Russ Exterminator was awesome back in 5th ed for the Space Wolves.

Unfortunitly, GW doesn't seem to be in the business of writing new codex books anymore- just updates. So I expect a book with the exact same layout, page count, artwork, same units, everything but with just one or two tweaks here and there and some formations.

I would give GH back there chainsword for free and bump up Blood Claws to match space marine scouts. It's only fair and it's uniform

 Tamwulf wrote:

 derpyhooves72 wrote:
Decurion style book, on par with the rest of the new releases. Formations that create synergy and fun times. A book that doesn't scream "Codex Thunderwolves".

As long as Thunderwolves exist, it will always be "Codex Thunderwolves". If it's a Decurion style codex, then guaranteed one of those formations will be a Thunderwolf Formation, and it will make an already OP unit even more OP. So now, all those Thunderwolf Players will be taking two Thunderwolf Formations and getting the best of everything.

Thunderwolves were the worst thing to ever happen to that codex. I wish they would go away.

Great Father Winter on his Sled pulled by Fenrision Wolves needs to go too. Really, this last codex was a travesty of units.

Sorry, I just have a great deal of dissatisfaction with the the last two codex rewrites.

Blood Claws should NOT get 4 BS/WS. If they get bumped up, then what's the difference between a Blood Claw and a Grey Hunter? +1 LD? I'd never take Grey Hunters again if Blood Claws go 4 BW/WS.

Murderfang has got to go. His rules don't work. I'd like to see SW Venerable Dreads get +1 AV on the front- or something to more to aid in their durability. Oh, and 4A would be nice. 5 on a Venerable would make it awesome.

I doubt we'll ever see it again, but the Leman Russ Exterminator was awesome back in 5th ed for the Space Wolves.

Unfortunitly, GW doesn't seem to be in the business of writing new codex books anymore- just updates. So I expect a book with the exact same layout, page count, artwork, same units, everything but with just one or two tweaks here and there and some formations.

- It's almost a sure bet that any likely Thunderwolf formation will also include a Fenrisian Wolf 'tax' accompanying it. Not saying it still isn't/won't be stupid good, but I highly doubt it'll just be pure Thunderwolf awesomsauce cheddar goodness.

- I said it would be nice to see Bloodclaws go up to WS4 but retain their BS3. It would make them the properly deadly & hyper aggressive assaulters they're meant to be, yet still leave Grey Hunters with a proper role to play.
Right now there's not point in EVER taking any of the Claw units outside of Bikers. Grey Hunters are simply better at everything for what, 1 or 2 whole pts more? In fact, I'd go as far as entirely removing the option for any Claw unit to take any special weapon upgrades beyond just Flamers & Plasma pistols.

- SW Dreads should simply be boosted up to the same standards as what both Vanillas & DA's now have. There's no reason for Puppies to get better Dreadnoughts 'just because'.
If any Dreadnought pattern should go, it's the Ironclad which should be nuked, since it was always just a middle finger to Chaos & BA's who had close combat specialist Dreads as a very unique variant!

- Exterminators can come back into the fold if only if they're crewed by BS3 Servitors.
The old 3rd edition ones were highly obnoxious at BS4 and were a pretty solid kick in the pants to Guard players who'd just seen their newest toy taken by the darling little Mehreens.

I would want them to become a powerful and reliable assault army.

Something to utterly shake the shooting heavy meta by forcing the users of other armies go "what if I meet the Wolftime?" and adjust their lists accordingly.

A metabreaker.

 Runic wrote:
I would want them to become a powerful and reliable assault army.

Something to utterly shake the shooting heavy meta by forcing the users of other armies go "what if I meet the Wolftime?" and adjust their lists accordingly.

A metabreaker.

Space Wolves should never be better at assaults than the likes of Tyranids or Chaos especially! Hell, even Orks should be a slightly scarier prospect than Puppies... If any loyalist Marine army should be 'kings of assault', then it should be those Blood Angel dudes.

 Tamwulf wrote:

 derpyhooves72 wrote:
Decurion style book, on par with the rest of the new releases. Formations that create synergy and fun times. A book that doesn't scream "Codex Thunderwolves".

As long as Thunderwolves exist, it will always be "Codex Thunderwolves". If it's a Decurion style codex, then guaranteed one of those formations will be a Thunderwolf Formation, and it will make an already OP unit even more OP. So now, all those Thunderwolf Players will be taking two Thunderwolf Formations and getting the best of everything.

Thunderwolves were the worst thing to ever happen to that codex. I wish they would go away.

Great Father Winter on his Sled pulled by Fenrision Wolves needs to go too. Really, this last codex was a travesty of units.

Sorry, I just have a great deal of dissatisfaction with the the last two codex rewrites.

Blood Claws should NOT get 4 BS/WS. If they get bumped up, then what's the difference between a Blood Claw and a Grey Hunter? +1 LD? I'd never take Grey Hunters again if Blood Claws go 4 BW/WS.

Murderfang has got to go. His rules don't work. I'd like to see SW Venerable Dreads get +1 AV on the front- or something to more to aid in their durability. Oh, and 4A would be nice. 5 on a Venerable would make it awesome.

I doubt we'll ever see it again, but the Leman Russ Exterminator was awesome back in 5th ed for the Space Wolves.

Unfortunitly, GW doesn't seem to be in the business of writing new codex books anymore- just updates. So I expect a book with the exact same layout, page count, artwork, same units, everything but with just one or two tweaks here and there and some formations.

It's not that I dislike the unit per se, I think having unique units for unique armies is a good thing. My problem is that compared to the rest of the codex, it's so powerful, that running an army without it makes it feel like you're playing handicapped. Further, it's not really that fluffy. Sure, their chapter name has the word Wolves in it, but they're an Astartes chapter. For a player who wants to play as an Astartes chapter, the gameplay options available are underwhelming.

Oh well. Not looking to complain. Just hoping for some more internal balance in the new book.

Bloodclaws will probably be boosted to WS and BS 4, as the new space marine scouts got the same treatment so there's no longer the argument that they're "new". Likewise, the scouts also basically invalidated tactical marines as a viable troop choice since they can do the job better for less points.

The Grey hunter's role might be preserved if the Blood Claws can't take special weapons. If they can, then there's no point in taking Grey Hunters.

the_scotsman wrote:
Are we really down to two responses before a thread completely unrelated to one of the currently UP codexes gets a UP codex complaint? Is that what were doing?

Anyway, I've been a good wolf all year so I want Santa Grimnar to bring me updated Ulrick and Ragnar sculpts. It'd be cool to see a "space wolf hero" sprue ala the Chaos Termie Lord that can make Wolf Priest, Wolf Lord, Ulrick, and Ragnar.

If this is in response to me, then Nob Bikers are WS4, BS2 S4 T5 W2 A3 LD 7 4+ for 45 pts, with Turbo Boost, Jink, Furious Charge and reroll one dice when charging. TWC are WS4 BS4 S5 T5 W2 A4 LD 9 3+ with Rending, Fleet, Counter Attack and Hammer of Wrath (also super friends bonuses) for 40 pts. Fair right?

Also I see your comment about being good this year, we are not even into February yet

 Ratius wrote:
So theres a growing consensus SWs will be the next release for February.
What are your hopes and dreams for the Sons of Russ in terms of a new codex and updates?

Personally I dont think the Wolves are that bad currently but they arent top tier either. I'd like to see some sort of force multipliers or army buffs to increase their hth capability in fitting with the fluff. Some form of rage buff, extra attacks when attacking in certain situations (maybe like if model count > X to reflect their headlong charges etc).
I feel many of us would like a buff to Blood Claws and Wolf Guard but what might that look like?

What sort of chapter tactics rules could they get (if any)?

I expect we won't see Wolf Guard buffs, because if Champions of Fenris is still allowed with the new Codex, the formations which essentially let you take as many as you want, and with an increased WS (and something else iirc?) might get too good?

Personally, I want the Dreads to get some love, but I perpetually feel that way. I desperately want reasons to take Bjorn Fellhanded, Murderfang, etc... and feel like they are viable, competitive choices. But Dreads game-wide are in need of further buffs.

I think it'd be very interesting to see a wolf scout kit.

I hope they get a lot of cool toys. However, I hope they get rid of the current rule where you can give ALL relics to your Wolf Lord. A Wolf Lord on TWC becomes nigh impossible to kill and it's fething broken.

Experiment 626 wrote:

 Runic wrote:
I would want them to become a powerful and reliable assault army.

Something to utterly shake the shooting heavy meta by forcing the users of other armies go "what if I meet the Wolftime?" and adjust their lists accordingly.

A metabreaker.

Space Wolves should never be better at assaults than the likes of Tyranids or Chaos especially! Hell, even Orks should be a slightly scarier prospect than Puppies... If any loyalist Marine army should be 'kings of assault', then it should be those Blood Angel dudes.

Not sure if srs or bait.

I love TWC but I'd like to see our Codex less dependent on them to fight in CC. I'd like a surprise Wulfen inclusion, distributed Helfrost weapons throughout, and more options to become more of an Outflank army since the Wolves Unleashed detachment is a 50% chance of Outflank if you pay the IC tax. If they want Outflank to be our thing (Acute Senses errrverywhere), we need more reliability in obtaining the ability.

Though I do agree about being a metabreaker, that we could be the influence for a better Chaos Codex (the Great Enemy should be a Great Enemy indeed, to the Sons of Russ!) when it comes around by having some CC buffs that could shake up all this shooting.

I don't know what they are going to do with the Claw units. Hopefully they will remain distinct enough from Grey Hunters. Sky and Swift Claws need BS4/WS4 though.

Long Fangs need a man-portable Helfrost Cannon. Keep Grav off them, but let them use their super special stuff. A new lot that includes this would be nice.

A new wolf scout kit with all the different options is another want.

Plastic Wolf Priest and Iron Priest kits would be nice.

If they want Outflank to be our thing (Acute Senses errrverywhere), we need more reliability in obtaining the ability.

Good point.
Be nice if they went down a mechanic/theme route of giving Sws multiple options for outflank. Its still risky as you have to rely on your reserve rolles but would allow a different playstlye rather than "straight up the middle" or castling or gunlines or pod drops.
Armies are most fun when their mechanics are different to each other and provide interesting and hopefully good playstyle options.

 FireWolf698 wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

 Runic wrote:
I would want them to become a powerful and reliable assault army.

Something to utterly shake the shooting heavy meta by forcing the users of other armies go "what if I meet the Wolftime?" and adjust their lists accordingly.

A metabreaker.

Space Wolves should never be better at assaults than the likes of Tyranids or Chaos especially! Hell, even Orks should be a slightly scarier prospect than Puppies... If any loyalist Marine army should be 'kings of assault', then it should be those Blood Angel dudes.

Not sure if srs or bait.

I love TWC but I'd like to see our Codex less dependent on them to fight in CC. I'd like a surprise Wulfen inclusion, distributed Helfrost weapons throughout, and more options to become more of an Outflank army since the Wolves Unleashed detachment is a 50% chance of Outflank if you pay the IC tax. If they want Outflank to be our thing (Acute Senses errrverywhere), we need more reliability in obtaining the ability.

Though I do agree about being a metabreaker, that we could be the influence for a better Chaos Codex (the Great Enemy should be a Great Enemy indeed, to the Sons of Russ!) when it comes around by having some CC buffs that could shake up all this shooting.

What I meant was more that Space Wolves shouldn't be the single most powerful close combat army in the game... Scary for sure, but definitely not 1-up'ing everyone else and taking their lunch money like champs!

If anything, I feel that the top end of the 'best close combat army' scale should be along the lines of;
Top Tier = Chaos Daemons, Chaos Marines, Blood Angels & Tyranids
Upper Middle = Space Wolves, Templars, Orks, Dark Eldar, Harlequins
Middle Tier = Eldar, Loyalist Marines in general (including Grey Knights), Necrons, Ad Mech.
Lower Tier = Guard, Tau.

Basically, those top end assault armies should the ones that everyone pees their pants over, while the upper middle end of the spectrum can viably run a mostly close combat based list, but they'll never be able to outshine the true masters of assaults.
(Thunderwolf Cav for example is the very best that SW's can muster, but the likes of Bloodcrushers, Death Company, Khorne Berserkers, Assaulty Warriors/Shrikes should be able to fight them to a stalemate, instead of simply being swept away as they currently are!)

The middle ground armies are just that - middle ground. They can compete well, but they shouldn't be making close combat their specialty, and definitely should be outclassed by the more traditional punchy armies.

Meanwhile the staple 'shooty' armies should ideally have their few close combat capable units, but overall, the Assault phase needs to remain their one huge glaring weakness.

I am just hoping they make logan a little less useless.

Ulrik is sold out
Logans war council is sold out
Long fangs sold out

Thoughts, these could be week one in wolves release. Week 2 having ragnar, sky claws, and krom with special edition codex. Week three having bran, wulfen, standard/ limited edition of a war zone campaign, with thousands suns


I dont mind the thunderwolves as hyper intellegent modified wolves that fight with the space wolves. But I hate them as mounts. I think it would've been more interesting to see Thunderwolves literally becoming thunderwolves from fenris wolves almost how spacemarines are made from humans.

Wolves are crazy enough to do this anyway. Limit one rider per pack, or reserve the rider role for a battle leader or HQ choice.

Thunderwolves definitely won't be changed because the kit is relatively new and selling well due to the near-broken rules.

Long Fangs I can see them giving it a special cut sprue that has Helfrost cannons. Cuz, you know, Wolfy Wolf Frost.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Thunderwolves definitely won't be changed because the kit is relatively new and selling well due to the near-broken rules.

Long Fangs I can see them giving it a special cut sprue that has Helfrost cannons. Cuz, you know, Wolfy Wolf Frost.

agreed about the Thunderwolves.

As for long fangs, if its the standard space wolf sprue with an updated devastator sprue, that would mean wolves gain access to the grav canon, which I would be dissappointed in. I'd be really surprised if they subbed the grav canon for a Helfrost canon. But I would love that.


--------------------------------------------

also this last bit is my mind wandering but, Sky claws with Helfrost bombs?

Skyclaws with Helfrost Pistols is more likely.

I want to see a relic CC weapon that behaves like Helfrost on a wound. Also for Helfrost to be worded in a way that Reanimation Protocols are bypassed.

Helfrost does ignore reanimation, since it says remove from play, which reanimation protocols, state they cannot be taken against str D or removed from game/play.