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Why don't they just create melee based drones? They'd have to see there's some tactical advantage to close ranged combat at times and it puts no Tau lives at risk. Something like drones with plasma blades and short ranged pulse weapons, sort of like a shotgun instead of the carbine.

It has been argued about before, drones filled wth high-speed circular saws and poison flechette launchers, for instance.

It makes perfect sense, but it would take away from the Tau army characteristics of mobility, firepower and synergy from support units like markerlights.

Drones are seem by Tau in much better light than servitors (their closest counterpat) are by the Imperium. Tau don't dispose of drones lightly - only when it's necessary for the survival of more valuable assets.

Melee drones are as wasteful for Tau as melee-oriented troops are. There's been some flexibilization, though - Onager Gauntlet and melta sword are examples of that. Still, only high-ranking people can use those stuff - it'll take quite a while to see melee-oriented drones or Firewarriors.

I realise they value them higher, I just figured they can't deny the tactical advantage of it if they needed it and then better drones than Tau lives if it came to that.

I don't think we'll ever actually see melee focused Tau themselves as I agree that takes away from one of their core aspects.

I would argue that it's because fluff wise that role is fulfilled by Kroot Auxiliaries (even if the rules don't represent that) so there is no need to create a drone to fulfill a role that is already filled.

Tau thought process when creating a drone prototype:
Hmmm, what weapon should I put on this to make it combat efficient? fusion blades? plasma torch?
...
...
Nah, let's give it wings and a railgun, long ranged engagements are much safer

On a serious note, the tau have kroot for melee (fluffwise they are pretty darn effective too), why would they risk putting resources into a new type of CQC drone just to risk them being cut up by some brute brandishing crushing claws/powerfist/insert any CQC weapon. This applies especially if you accept the view that tau think of kroot as secondary citizens. Much more expendable than any drone will ever be.


Take into account that their lack of melee specialists is one of the few "weaknesses" of tau, I doubt they'll ever have that gap filled.

Or just subjugate other races more fit for a melee role.

 hippyjr wrote:
why would they risk putting resources into a new type of CQC drone just to risk them being cut up by some brute brandishing crushing claws/powerfist/insert any CQC weapon. This applies especially if you accept the view that tau think of kroot as secondary citizens. Much more expendable than any drone will ever be.

Maybe they view the Kroot lowly enough to not even want them in their Cadre.

The Kroot aren't seen as lowly at all. You'll often hear talk of Kroot mixed amidst a planets civilian population and they have their own habitats designed for their own needs with lots of verticality since they are much more apt at climbing.

It's that the Kroots don't want to join the Tau like that but be their own people who just help us. Thus they are auxiliaries.

Yes, They all play Smash 4.

Kind of surprised that the Tau haven't taken advantage of ork freebooters tbh.
Seems like the armies would compliment each other nicely, by bringing reliable firepower and melee to the table.
Course, they'd have to persuade them to stop attacking their outposts first.

Tau have Kroot and Vespids for melee combat. Why would they need a drone. I'm not sure that Kroot, at least, aren't better in combat than any drone could hope to be, unless it was a very advanced and powerful (therefore expensive) drone.

I think the issue is that the kroot rules don't reflect the background well on the table top

They don't create melee drones because fluff-wise melee combat should be virtually nonexistent. Tau only have to fight in melee on the tabletop because of 40k's issues with distance scaling and fixed table edges, in a real battle it would be much, much harder to get into sword range with them.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
I think the issue is that the kroot rules don't reflect the background well on the table top

They used to be...okay in 4th from what I remember.

I'm going to disagree with the above. It may not make much sense when applying real world logic, but there is a ton of background, stories and pictures and events that show melee combat is quite common in the 40k universe.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
I'm going to disagree with the above. It may not make much sense when applying real world logic, but there is a ton of background, stories and pictures and events that show melee combat is quite common in the 40k universe.

It doesn't make sense when applying ANY logic. 40k's scale is indisputably off. Movement speeds and weapon ranges are not scaled properly for a 28mm game. Weapon ranges should be much longer, movement distances should be much shorter, and the table should be much larger with no arbitrary "you can't leave this rectangle" edges to keep a Tau force from maneuvering properly to avoid melee combat. Melee combat happens because the rules force it to happen, not because it should happen.

 Peregrine wrote:
Melee combat happens because the rules force it to happen, not because it should happen.

This. Our modern militaries keep up with the need for melee by equipping soldiers with a bayonet that very few even bother training with, and an actual melee makes the headlines amidst carpet bombings and full assaults with a hundred times more people involved not because it's expected but because it's a curiosity.

 Peregrine wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:
I'm going to disagree with the above. It may not make much sense when applying real world logic, but there is a ton of background, stories and pictures and events that show melee combat is quite common in the 40k universe.

It doesn't make sense when applying ANY logic. 40k's scale is indisputably off. Movement speeds and weapon ranges are not scaled properly for a 28mm game. Weapon ranges should be much longer, movement distances should be much shorter, and the table should be much larger with no arbitrary "you can't leave this rectangle" edges to keep a Tau force from maneuvering properly to avoid melee combat. Melee combat happens because the rules force it to happen, not because it should happen.

Which makes sense, but 40k is basically ww1/ww2 style Watergate while the tau come across as a more modern and mobile force overall. Melee shouldn't really exist in 40k but then you have things like tyranids.

What would I do with drones that ended up in combat, and they couldn't extricate themselves?

Detonate their power cores. A Str3 or 4 blast at the end of combat would be fluffy, no? Or at least if the commander didn't care about losses anymore (like a pyrrhic victory), but wouldn't that be terribly unfluffy?

Tau don't hate melee, they just have a tactical doctrine that encourages ranged over melee, as melee is a waste of resources. We do see melee Tau in the form of Commanders trained in a Mon'ka philosophy, yet even they still prefer dealing with an enemy before they are too close rather than closing themselves.

Not sure why GW dropped the Onager Gauntlet from the FSE war gear list, as it has more of a place there than in a standard TE army.

SJ

 carldooley wrote:
What would I do with drones that ended up in combat, and they couldn't extricate themselves?

Detonate their power cores. A Str3 or 4 blast at the end of combat would be fluffy, no? Or at least if the commander didn't care about losses anymore (like a pyrrhic victory), but wouldn't that be terribly unfluffy?

If they don't win and would be destroyed anyway? Why not?

I had this idea before the new codex came out, of mining/cutting drones used in resource harvesting re-purposed to be melee drones. They're not particularly good in melee, since they're slow and clunky, but they have a unique feature that they explode in serious shrapnel when destroyed.

The idea was basically they were hastily re-purposed and couldn't be made to fight that well, but could be made to tie things up and explode. It's very Tau-esque.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
It has been argued about before, drones filled wth high-speed circular saws and poison flechette launchers, for instance.

It makes perfect sense, but it would take away from the Tau army characteristics of mobility, firepower and synergy from support units like markerlights.

it would also mean that CC might become viable since they wouldnt have to pander to the shooting armies so much, heaven help them if they did something so rash

 n0t_u wrote:
Why don't they just create melee based drones? They'd have to see there's some tactical advantage to close ranged combat at times and it puts no Tau lives at risk. Something like drones with plasma blades and short ranged pulse weapons, sort of like a shotgun instead of the carbine.

I thought the new breacher teams filled the short ranged role for tau.

Also there is actually a section of the tau that hasn't seen love in a while. Ya know the actual kroot, vespid and other auxiliary races. It's kind of like GW forgot about those and said "Hey we can just make big expensive kits that demolish half an army instead and charge 150 USD for em!"

------

They could also instead of using these things just allow for force field making units or similar (like the force fields that protoss make in starcraft 2) or instead make something that entangles units. Imagine a grenade or weapon type that actually forces units to move slower.

All this said I think tau really don't need anything to be better. At this point if anything tau and eldar (craftworld ones) should get nerfed. Either that or boost everybody else up to be as good as them.

Not meant to make them better, if anything it could ease up shooting a little as a whole.

I always thought that Krootox could be the Tau heavy hitters in melee. Much like they were represented in the Dawn of War game. Drop the gun and have them run around in packs of 3-5. WS 3, S5, T5, W3, A4. With special rules like FC, FNP, Rage, Move through cover, beasts.

You could take one unit of Krootox for every two units of Kroot or Kroot hounds. Something like that.