Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

The Tesseract Vault.
What's good about the thing?
- 48" range on C'tan powers
- Tesla Spheres put out a ridiculous amount of shots
- some cool shooting profiles for those powers
- 9HP with Living Metal to repair lost hull points on a 6 every turn

What's bad about the thing?
- 550 points and no invuln save? Boooo
- roll for random powers AFTER you've chosen your target? Boooooooo

So what can be done about it?
Well, first off, it needs an invulnerable save. Luckily, the thing hovers off the ground, so sitting its base on top of a Skyshield should be no problem.
It's got 48" range on its powers, so not too much need to worry about moving.
And getting through 9 hull points that can self repair every turn is going to be one hell of a slog for most armies if the thing can ignore 50% of the shots that come for it (the exception being strength D that rolls a 6... but hopefully statistics is on your side).

If you REALLY wanted salt the wounds, you could run a double CAD that includes both a Landing Pad AND a Void Shield Generator.
(and maaaan would it be tempting to run a second Vault to stick up there on the Landing Pad, but not only would it probably not fit... does anyone actually own two Tesseract Vaults?)

Unfortunately there's not much you can do about the random power THEN choose target thing. Maybe if you're playing for fun you could ask whether you can change the order around just to house-rule try it out. Otherwise, all you can do is try to pick targets that will get good results no matter the power rolled.

What think?
Is 625 (or 725 with VSG) decent for having a significantly more resilient and hard to kill death machine?

The random power thing is an issue with C'tans as a whole, since it's counter-intuitive to choose a target before knowing whether you're using an anti-tank shot or an anti-horde attack.

While I know the intent was that the Shards could be dicks to you, there's a point in game design where it should instead break the fluff for the sake of usability. It should instead be something like the Psychic Powers, where there's a chance the power won't activate, but you at least get to choose which power you use.

Seriously, they could keep the randomness crap in if they really needed to. All they would have needed to do was reverse the choose target then roll for powers order.
Simple things like that and changing the Transcendent C'tan to a Gargantuan Creature could have seen the sales of that kit increase significantly (not game breakingly good improvements, but good enough that people would take a look at it and go, "Yeah, I'd take that for my army.")

In the mean time, I'm trying to figure out how much giving this thing a 4++ (plus maybe 3 void shields) would improve its effectiveness.
Significantly?
Decently?
Not enough?

You're overthinking how to use it more effectively.

The trick is that you don't want it to live. It always creates a giant explosion. Strike it directly in the middle of the opponent's side of the field.

Could still stand to be 50 points cheaper or so though.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You're overthinking how to use it more effectively.

The trick is that you don't want it to live. It always creates a giant explosion. Strike it directly in the middle of the opponent's side of the field.

Could still stand to be 50 points cheaper or so though.

In that case use the Obelisk

Obelisks blow up entirely? I didn't realize they had that rule. Eh, oh well.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You're overthinking how to use it more effectively.

The trick is that you don't want it to live. It always creates a giant explosion. Strike it directly in the middle of the opponent's side of the field.

Could still stand to be 50 points cheaper or so though.

This exactly.
I've used a Tesseract vault to some success personally.

It doesn't make it's points back in kills, but it has a lot going for it.

1. It has 9 HP ! Statistically that's the same as 6 Hp with a 5++, except this also has a slim chance of surviving a D-weapon 6.
2. Armor 14 all round. Seriously tough to deal with, the monolith sucks because it get's melta'd (and has little offense or mobility to make up for it) , It's very hard to kill AV 14 by stripping hull points. Against a Tau gunline, toting 600 S7 shots ignoring cover each turn? 1/3 of your army is immune now.
Unfortunately if they've fit in markerlights and a stormsurge you may lose 1/3 of you army instantly, Dice.
3.Thunderblitz. If you place this in the middle of the board then anything that's not within 6" of a long edge, or close to the short edge is having problems. Thunderblitz scares anything that isn't a lychstar.
4. Presence somewhat linked to point 3, it's an anvil, use it to hold down a location like a lychstar, it's not moving easily, it really only fears the D.

Shooting is so-so, 1/6 chance of game winning target appropriate shot, usually 2/3 chance of helpful power. Tesla spheres are nice, but difficult to shoot. The powers are strong, if you target something there is a 1/6 chance you get the power to erase it, which is pretty handy.

Downsides.
1. 1 D-weapon 6, and you lose 1/3 of your army
2. one model is 1/3 of your army
3. that one model might kill another 1/3 of your army when it dies

Honorable mention,
VENGEANCE BOOM, always goes titanic, ultimate FETH-you to any IKs that want to destroy it, also makes it a handy suicide bomber. move 12" boost 12"?(not sure) and everyone beside it has to move asap if they plan on killing it.
I wouldn't know, as noone has killed mine yet as it's really hopeless to shoot at unless you have D.

I actually lost a game, due to being out played and not being able to move the vault for a large portion of the game, I likely would have won if i had charged it forward into position, and sacrificed it, on turn 1.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It's a solid choice, just requires a different approach.

Could stand to be cheaper though, the Wraithknight and stormsurge are criminally undercosted.

Gotta side with the other posters on this: if the only reason you're bringing one is to have it suicide bomb the opponents side... why wouldn't you just use a Obelisk?

No, those super versions of the powers are just too good to waste like that. This thing should be able to end at least three, maybe four units a game (five if you manage to roll right).
And with a 4 foot range, you probably won't need to be worrying about mobility.

 skoffs wrote:
Gotta side with the other posters on this: if the only reason you're bringing one is to have it suicide bomb the opponents side... why wouldn't you just use a Obelisk?

No, those super versions of the powers are just too good to waste like that. This thing should be able to end at least three, maybe four units a game (five if you manage to roll right).
And with a 4 foot range, you probably won't need to be worrying about mobility.

Obelisk doesn't have "vengeance of the enchained" , it may make a big boom if you're lucky, it may just fizzle out if you aren't.
The suicide bombing is a one of it's strengths in tandem with thunderblitz.

Basically move it up close to the enemies, like a tau gunline, they either let it survive and get thunderblitzed crippling units at a time, or they kill it, and it explodes killing everything around it.
The shooting is nice, and It would be nice if it was more reliable, but thunderblitz puts in the heavy lifting, and creates a large denial bubble. Worried about your Destroyers getting assaulted? under the shadow of this, most things won't risk it, even thundercav will hesitate, one 6 can cripple the unit.

Hmm, hadn't double checked that one... guess that rules out the Obelisk.

Okay, so either sit back and try to keep it alive via the Skyshield, or kamikaze it straight into enemy lines.

May have to play a few games both ways to see how each works out.

It is far too expensive to put on a Sky Shield, simply because you need to make use out of every gun.

Fair enough.
Ah well, i guess there's better things to spend 550 points on.
:/

 skoffs wrote:
Hmm, hadn't double checked that one... guess that rules out the Obelisk.

Okay, so either sit back and try to keep it alive via the Skyshield, or kamikaze it straight into enemy lines.

May have to play a few games both ways to see how each works out.

The skyshield is pointless, this thing is durable as feth.
It's not a kamikaze it will get there and deal damage, the Vengeance boom is just icing. If there is a knight in your lines, the solution is obvious, kill the feth out of it. It explodes and might do some damage.
A vault in your lines? Either divert a LOT of firepower to kill it, and pray not too much dies, or hope it doesn't hurt next turn.

It likely won't die the turn it reaches their lines, Odds are they will waste a lot of firepower, and it will still be fully operational next turn. 9 HP AV14 all-round is insane to crack, think about it, It's basically 2.5 land raiders with immunity to the damage chart, and resistant to explodes.

Any meltas in range better kill it, because they are getting run over next turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 skoffs wrote:
Fair enough.
Ah well, i guess there's better things to spend 550 points on.
:/

yeah, but it's pretty good honestly, not easy to use, I'm still figuring it out. It's no wraithknight, but honestly, if they were appropriately costed, I think the Vault would fit right around the 500 point mark.

Also if you do want to use it, one idea I've toyed with but not played . Scarab farm.

CAD
immortals tax 170
HQ d-lord flamer 145
10 deathmarks 180
9 spyders 450
2x9 scarabs 360
LOW vault 550

~1855

Drop scarab bases and season with Solar lord or fabricator claws to taste.

IMO just ask the opponent to use the old rules for it from escalation.

The new codex changed all of the necrons' superheavies into just super-heavy in points with the lack of firepower or defenses to really back them up. Obelisk got cheaper (IIRC) but lost its best part about it and raw wise is useless, so it is a more expensive monolith that lost its main gun, no door, and tesla instead of gauss.