Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I was wondering what people thought of the Word Bearers unique units:

Gal Vorbak
Diabolist
Mhara Gal
Ashen Circle

I feel like the named characters of the legion are pretty amazing but some of the unique units such as the Mhara Gal seem too expensive with too few bonuses over the generic counterparts.

Gal Vorbak play very well on the board IME.

Mhara Gal is pretty good but as you say too expensive points wise for my comfort.

Ashen Circle is OK I guess...I wouldn't use them unless I took the new Daemon HQ dude and could take them as troops. But I've never played with them, so maybe theyre better than I think.

Can't remember if a Diabolost unlocks Daemon allies. If so, then there may be some use there as a cheap way to unlock Daemons, but I'd generally say your better bet is to go with one of the named dudes.

Gal Vorbak are just incredible - they're what possessed marines should be. Worth taking in multiple squads of 5 to max out the number of Dark Martyrs in your army, but a squad of 10 is also just plain mean. Add power mauls, melta/plasmaguns to taste.

The Diabolist I only tend to use to unlock the RoW if I'm doing without special characters. Both Zardu Layak and Erebus do the same job better.

Mhara Gal can be destructive and very difficult to kill, but the points cost is a bit much to stomach.

Ashen Circle I use regularly. Against MEQS they're not so impressive - those hand flamers don't really do much. Its the odd occasion that the oponent has a tarpit like tech-thralls or cult levy that they really shine. Unless you bothered to pay for power axes (and they are very reasonably priced), then they make a decent melee unit. Just remember to leave one axe-rake in the squad so you still get the effect.

So I thumbed through the book and Diabolists do not unlock Daemon Allies, unless taken as part of their Rite of War. The WB Rite of War is fun but has a good chance of a negative repercussion and severely limits your HS slots.

Other than for the Rite of War I guess another reason to take a generic Diabolist might be to unlock Dark Channeling cheapish. Might be useful to have one laying around for lower points games if you're into Dark Channeling, which I think is a pretty cool part of playing WBs.

Gal Vorbak are absolutely incredible, the best Legion Specific melee unit in my opinion. AA and a PF on the Dark Martyr is godlike, 2W, I5, T5, S5 and rending on the Dark Brethren is to die for. Stick a few mauls in for good measure.

The diabolist is in my opinion, useless since Erebus and Zardu Layak exist.

The Mhara Gal is a beast but it's starting price is over 300 points coupled with the fact it's incredibly dangerous near your Gal Vorbak, Lorgar and any channeled unit that rolled daemon means you better be damn sure you can keep it safe and get it where you want it to be or it won't last long. However this thing is absolutely hilarious in Zone Mortalis games where it can walk through any wall an inch thick, you can walk it safely down an unoccupied corridor adjacent to the enemy and pass through a wall near them, shoot and charge, incredibly funny stuff. Blind on it's "Curs'd Boltspitter" is alright but don't ever expect it to work.

Ashen Circle are situational, they need power axes to be effective against MEQ but those axes are so cheap that's not a problem. Don't underestimate the fact that they are Destroyers and as such they can carry phosphex bombs. Best taken as Troops if Layak is your Warlord, but you're forced to buy dark channelling for them this way which is expensive, though every result on the DC is brilliant for them, zealot, S5 or daemon rock on melee units. In my last two games they rolled up Daemon and the fearless, fear and the 5++ was very handy. Also, they're WS5, that's pretty neat.

 jasper76 wrote:
Gal Vorbak play very well on the board IME.

Mhara Gal is pretty good but as you say too expensive points wise for my comfort.

Ashen Circle is OK I guess...I wouldn't use them unless I took the new Daemon HQ dude and could take them as troops. But I've never played with them, so maybe theyre better than I think.

Can't remember if a Diabolost unlocks Daemon allies. If so, then there may be some use there as a cheap way to unlock Daemons, but I'd generally say your better bet is to go with one of the named dudes.

Where is this about taking Ashen Circle as troops? Which Daemon HQ are you talking about?

Zardu Layak makes them Troops.

 Powerfisting wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
Gal Vorbak play very well on the board IME.

Mhara Gal is pretty good but as you say too expensive points wise for my comfort.

Ashen Circle is OK I guess...I wouldn't use them unless I took the new Daemon HQ dude and could take them as troops. But I've never played with them, so maybe theyre better than I think.

Can't remember if a Diabolost unlocks Daemon allies. If so, then there may be some use there as a cheap way to unlock Daemons, but I'd generally say your better bet is to go with one of the named dudes.

Where is this about taking Ashen Circle as troops? Which Daemon HQ are you talking about?

Like Shadox says, Layak makes them troops if he is the Warlord but he also gives them access to Dark Channeling, though they have no choice but to purchase it.

@Powerfisting: Rules for Zardu Layak, some other HQ I can't remember the name, and a WB Dreadnought were released with the latest HH Book 5.

The problem with the Mara Ghal is pretty much the same problem with the Leviathan dreadnought - it's cool and all, but it's essentially just a melee dreadnought. It desperately needs to be in melee, which means you shouldn't consider it unless you have a plan for getting it there.

Trying to walk across the board (even with The Earth Recoils) is asking to get shot to hell with Ordnance fire from across the board, and whilst your howling super-warp plasma cannon +1 is cool and all, you are only BS3.

Once it's in combat, it's nigh unstoppable because it's got so many damn rules to cripple an opponent's ability to hurt it - Daemon means its 5++ save works in melee rather than dropping to 6++ like atomantic shielding, AV13 cuts the teeth of power fists and (especially) krak grenades, but more importantly, -1 to hit from the T7/AV13 or less, plus blind from the boltspitter, plus fear with -2Ld from daemon and accursed means virtually no-one gets to hit the damn thing on what their WS says they should.

Meanwhile, Ghost Razors can disassemble even cataphractii terminators with scary ease.

The big problem is that you can't tag-team it with Gal Vorbak.

all of them are pretty good, but the same can be said about 95% of all the units in 30k. In general, Gal Vorbak are a pain and will usually eat face the first few times an enemy faces them (and probably a few more times beyond that ) Ashen circle are neat, but I haven't seen them on the board to much. The silly Gal Vorbak dreadnought is fun to see, and fun to play, but it's a lot less scary then 10 Gal Vorbak running about eating everything.

locarno24 wrote:
The problem with the Mara Ghal is pretty much the same problem with the Leviathan dreadnought - it's cool and all, but it's essentially just a melee dreadnought. It desperately needs to be in melee, which means you shouldn't consider it unless you have a plan for getting it there.

Trying to walk across the board (even with The Earth Recoils) is asking to get shot to hell with Ordnance fire from across the board, and whilst your howling super-warp plasma cannon +1 is cool and all, you are only BS3.

Once it's in combat, it's nigh unstoppable because it's got so many damn rules to cripple an opponent's ability to hurt it - Daemon means its 5++ save works in melee rather than dropping to 6++ like atomantic shielding, AV13 cuts the teeth of power fists and (especially) krak grenades, but more importantly, -1 to hit from the T7/AV13 or less, plus blind from the boltspitter, plus fear with -2Ld from daemon and accursed means virtually no-one gets to hit the damn thing on what their WS says they should.

Meanwhile, Ghost Razors can disassemble even cataphractii terminators with scary ease.

The big problem is that you can't tag-team it with Gal Vorbak.

Not nessesarily true, both can swap put weapons for very good guns, but the mhara gal currently lacks the part to change weapons, the leviathans weapons while short ranged, are very good.

It can, but I suspect it still has not enough firepower to justify a 300 point price tag as a gun platform - especially with only BS3.

I use Zardu Layak, so I use the Ashen Circle as one of my troops slots, and I think they fit nicely. Upgrades are cheap on them. It just sucks that you can't join anyone to the unit

I also use the Gal Vorbak (10 man, twin LC and 2x Power mauls) with ZL, a psyker Diabolist, or a Chaplain psyker (depending on the list, sometimes I want Layak to stay back and summon) in a Spartan, and I find they'll pretty much murderize anything you have them pop out on.