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2016/01/22 21:05:50
Subject: Alien Dungeon going out of business - no more "All Quiet on the Martian Front"
sucks to hear this news, but not unexpected. Overstepping their reach comes to mind here.
Any way to buy the Fanticide game?
At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money.
2016/01/24 11:48:40
Subject: Alien Dungeon going out of business - no more "All Quiet on the Martian Front"
Who is this guy who wrote the article? With his "decades" of experience in the gaming industry....never head of him. Google came up with a guy with his name writing a Battletech book. Not sure if that qualifies him as an expert. Heck, my name is still out there from when I worked in the industry and I would never qualify myself as an expert.
.Only a fool believes there is such a thing as price gouging. Things have value determined by the creator or merchant. If you don't agree with that value, you are free not to purchase.
2016/01/25 18:49:36
Subject: Alien Dungeon going out of business - no more "All Quiet on the Martian Front"
Crimson Devil wrote: If you view Kickstarter as a pre-order, then yes you got screwed. I view it as gambling. Which is what investing in KS really is.
How you view Kickstarter is irrelevant to the discussion, really.
It was thrown out there earlier in this thread that people shouldn't be bashing on the folks behind Alien Dungeon since they were all good people. That perspective is a tough one to advocate for folks who were lied to, however.
For the backers who were lied to about receiving gift voucher compensation for their remaining pledges only to find out a few weeks later that the company up and vanished, well, good luck trying to convince them that Alien Dungeon's actions were good.
2016/01/25 19:12:56
Subject: Re:Alien Dungeon going out of business - no more "All Quiet on the Martian Front"
Architects of War and Alien Dungeon had huge presences at the last several Historicons. At Historicon 2014 there was a massive, massive AQOTMF game for the Battle of Memphis (like massive massive, 50 foot table? something like that) and Historicon 2015 they had a large AQOTMF tournament with about a dozen games going during the tournament hours.
Kinda blows my mind, it seemed like they were doing really well, especially as they were the sole distributor for Perry miniatures in the USA (FRPGames/Golden and TheWarStore get their stuff through another distributor, hence the higher prices - AoW was direct Perry sales)
"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke
2016/01/25 20:48:04
Subject: Re:Alien Dungeon going out of business - no more "All Quiet on the Martian Front"
Snoopdeville3 wrote: Believe it or not I actually sold them a piece of equipment to so they could shrink wrap their boxes. They were good peeps, I talked to the owner a fews times and apparently some of the guys that made the game were old GW folks. But these guys never seemed to advertise. The only reason I heard about them is because they called our company, sad to see them go.
At this point I honestly cannot say they are "good peeps", to just up and close leaving so many people in a lurch doesn't say "good peeps" to me. Things happen, but it's how you conduct yourself during the tough times that defines who you are.
Just because they decided to close their doors doesnt mean there are not good people. They may not have the sense to run a business but this doesnt mean there bad people. If you had a choice to put food on your table or keep your business open im sure you would choose the food. Starving > Upsetting a few people.
2016/01/25 21:40:48
Subject: Alien Dungeon going out of business - no more "All Quiet on the Martian Front"
Snoopdeville3 wrote: Believe it or not I actually sold them a piece of equipment to so they could shrink wrap their boxes. They were good peeps, I talked to the owner a fews times and apparently some of the guys that made the game were old GW folks. But these guys never seemed to advertise. The only reason I heard about them is because they called our company, sad to see them go.
At this point I honestly cannot say they are "good peeps", to just up and close leaving so many people in a lurch doesn't say "good peeps" to me. Things happen, but it's how you conduct yourself during the tough times that defines who you are.
Just because they decided to close their doors doesnt mean there are not good people. They may not have the sense to run a business but this doesnt mean there bad people. If you had a choice to put food on your table or keep your business open im sure you would choose the food. Starving > Upsetting a few people.
As a customer that point is moot, they can be saints, but as a customer i only see failed deliveries. I hope that someone takes over the IP, Maybe warlord? then they can sell it at double the price?
Alien Dungeon wrote:Official Announcement
Posted by Alien Dungeon
We regret to announce that effective January 27th, 2016, Robot Peanut Studios, LLC, and its associated brands, Architects of War and Alien Dungeon have permanently closed their doors.
Our sales plummeted precipitously in the 3rd and 4th quarter of 2015 and never recovered across our online retail operations as well as hobby shop and distributor sales. We could not maintain our business under these conditions and despite a continuing series of sales and marketing efforts, we have been forced to file for bankruptcy. The case has been filed in the United States Bankruptcy Court for the Western District of Pennsylvania at case number 16-20247. Please contact an attorney if you have any questions.
We set out six years ago to start a company providing exciting and entertaining intellectual property primarily in the analog gaming market. RPS began with miniature games with the intention of expanding to board and digital games. While the All Quiet Kickstarter project brought in significant sales for us, the cost of development, manufacturing, and shipping exceeded the sales numbers and we were relying on sales beyond the Kickstarter in the broader market to carry the costs and expand the game. These sales never materialized in sufficient quantities. It is just that simple - we sold stuff through the Kickstarter that essentially ended up just above cost and then paid for the shipping. All Quiet just didn’t generate enough money for its scale. In addition, our original cost estimates based on quotes and time frame from various vendors Pre-Kickstarter were exceeded, making the business model untenable without retail sales that never materialized.
We are very sorry that it has come to this. Certainly not the outcome we dreamed of when we started the company. To our investors, the Kickstarter supporters and our loyal customers, we’d like to thank you for your support. It has been difficult not communicating during this legal process, but we have had to go through a process and that has been well outside any of our previous experiences.
This will be our last communication. Customer service inquiries will not be answered and there will be no additional communication on Kickstarter. We do not know what the final disposition of All Quiet and or other product brands will be at this time. We have to forfeit our participation in such matters to the court.
Barb and I must move on and find employment and start putting our lives back together. To our friends, investors, vendors, and loyal customers, thank you for helping us try to fulfill our dream and we wish you the best possible future.
Yours Sincerely, Barb and Ernie
The fat lady just sung.
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
2016/01/28 15:33:07
Subject: Alien Dungeon going out of business - no more "All Quiet on the Martian Front"
Crimson Devil wrote: If you view Kickstarter as a pre-order, then yes you got screwed. I view it as gambling. Which is what investing in KS really is.
How you view Kickstarter is irrelevant to the discussion, really.
It was thrown out there earlier in this thread that people shouldn't be bashing on the folks behind Alien Dungeon since they were all good people. That perspective is a tough one to advocate for folks who were lied to, however.
For the backers who were lied to about receiving gift voucher compensation for their remaining pledges only to find out a few weeks later that the company up and vanished, well, good luck trying to convince them that Alien Dungeon's actions were good.
Actually it does. Motive is very relevant to the discussion. Do you view Ernie as a business owner in over his head or a nefarious swindler out for your money? Operating your business like it is going to survive a rough patch, isn't the same as deliberately lying. Should Ernie have seen the warning signs and stopped taking orders? Yes he should have, But being rational during a time of crisis isn't a very common ability.
2016/01/28 15:59:29
Subject: Alien Dungeon going out of business - no more "All Quiet on the Martian Front"
Crimson Devil wrote: If you view Kickstarter as a pre-order, then yes you got screwed. I view it as gambling. Which is what investing in KS really is.
How you view Kickstarter is irrelevant to the discussion, really.
It was thrown out there earlier in this thread that people shouldn't be bashing on the folks behind Alien Dungeon since they were all good people. That perspective is a tough one to advocate for folks who were lied to, however.
For the backers who were lied to about receiving gift voucher compensation for their remaining pledges only to find out a few weeks later that the company up and vanished, well, good luck trying to convince them that Alien Dungeon's actions were good.
Actually it does. Motive is very relevant to the discussion. Do you view Ernie as a business owner in over his head or a nefarious swindler out for your money? Operating your business like it is going to survive a rough patch, isn't the same as deliberately lying. Should Ernie have seen the warning signs and stopped taking orders? Yes he should have, But being rational during a time of crisis isn't a very common ability.
Quit moving the goal posts. Ernie lied to backers when promising to issue credits for our outstanding pledges. If he lied out of stress, false hope, or because he is a "nefarious swindler" (your words, not mine) are irrelevant to me and a lot of other backers because the end result is the same: we did not have our pledges fulfilled. We have lost money, and were outright lied to about being compensated mere weeks before the business folded. I don't care if Ernie is the best guy in the world otherwise, my only interaction with him has been at the head of Alien Dungeon, and in that role he proved to be untrustworthy with backers funds as well as deceptive in his communications.
Why does Ernie get a pass in this situation? Because he tried? I don't buy that. Lots of people try and fail in business. I don't blame him for failing. I blame him and the others involved in the running of the company for the last few months of Alien Dungeon's operations. I blame him for taking orders and not fulfilling them, and more importantly coming up with that bs gift certificate announcement and not following through.
2016/01/28 18:30:42
Subject: Alien Dungeon going out of business - no more "All Quiet on the Martian Front"
Actually, a company that is approaching bankruptcy also has a duty to it's investors and creditors to try pretty much anything to keep the ship going. If a business owners tips his hand too much about going broke, that pretty much causes lower priority creditors to step up efforts prior to actual bankruptcy proceedings.
What happened to the backers is really crappy. Nobody really denies that. I don't think the owner is exactly getting a free pass, in that while he's not personally liable for the debt, he will lose his owner's equity, which I would imagine was fairly substantial.
Not everything has a victim and a villain. Sometimes bad things happen, and they effect a lot of people.
2016/01/28 22:10:41
Subject: Re:Alien Dungeon going out of business - no more "All Quiet on the Martian Front"
judgedoug wrote: Architects of War and Alien Dungeon had huge presences at the last several Historicons. At Historicon 2014 there was a massive, massive AQOTMF game for the Battle of Memphis (like massive massive, 50 foot table? something like that) and Historicon 2015 they had a large AQOTMF tournament with about a dozen games going during the tournament hours.
Kinda blows my mind, it seemed like they were doing really well, especially as they were the sole distributor for Perry miniatures in the USA (FRPGames/Golden and TheWarStore get their stuff through another distributor, hence the higher prices - AoW was direct Perry sales)
This is why I was so surprised. They had a great footing, and the games they had didn't really look like they were putting them in the poorhouse.
Was it the KS that put them in the poorhouse, then?
Who is picking up the carnage that they left behind with the other games and the Perry Miniatures???
At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money.
2016/01/28 22:40:24
Subject: Alien Dungeon going out of business - no more "All Quiet on the Martian Front"
From the update the KS basically broke even except for the shipping,
but the games just didn't seem to sell well enough in the retail world to sustain the business
It also looks like the move might have been an issue since there's a claim against them relating to their old premises (perhaps they were on the hook for rent until the landlord could get a new tenant? Paying for 2 places can eat cash fast)
We also don't know what debt they took on before the KS to start development of their stuff... a break even KS would not have let them pay off that
but basically not good news why ever it happened, it's bad for the backers, it's bad for the game and it's bad for them (who now have no business and major hit to their reputations)
2016/01/28 22:43:14
Subject: Alien Dungeon going out of business - no more "All Quiet on the Martian Front"
We also don't know what debt they took on before the KS to start development of their stuff... a break even KS would not have let them pay off that
that's my thought. If the Kickstarter broke even, and according to them it's a stretch to say that it did, than they would still need the game to sell reasonably well to earn back what they invested on the front end.
Kickstarter may have been the funding mechanism, but it sounds like this was an old story of an ambitious but failed product line that sinks a small company.
2016/01/28 23:04:17
Subject: Alien Dungeon going out of business - no more "All Quiet on the Martian Front"
It's sad but it looks like the title is a bit too prophetic as things will indeed be all quiet on the Martian front. Too bad as it looked impressive visually despite my personal general dislike of steampunk.
2016/01/28 23:29:27
Subject: Alien Dungeon going out of business - no more "All Quiet on the Martian Front"
Crimson Devil wrote: If you view Kickstarter as a pre-order, then yes you got screwed. I view it as gambling. Which is what investing in KS really is.
How you view Kickstarter is irrelevant to the discussion, really.
It was thrown out there earlier in this thread that people shouldn't be bashing on the folks behind Alien Dungeon since they were all good people. That perspective is a tough one to advocate for folks who were lied to, however.
For the backers who were lied to about receiving gift voucher compensation for their remaining pledges only to find out a few weeks later that the company up and vanished, well, good luck trying to convince them that Alien Dungeon's actions were good.
Actually it does. Motive is very relevant to the discussion. Do you view Ernie as a business owner in over his head or a nefarious swindler out for your money? Operating your business like it is going to survive a rough patch, isn't the same as deliberately lying. Should Ernie have seen the warning signs and stopped taking orders? Yes he should have, But being rational during a time of crisis isn't a very common ability.
Quit moving the goal posts. Ernie lied to backers when promising to issue credits for our outstanding pledges. If he lied out of stress, false hope, or because he is a "nefarious swindler" (your words, not mine) are irrelevant to me and a lot of other backers because the end result is the same: we did not have our pledges fulfilled. We have lost money, and were outright lied to about being compensated mere weeks before the business folded. I don't care if Ernie is the best guy in the world otherwise, my only interaction with him has been at the head of Alien Dungeon, and in that role he proved to be untrustworthy with backers funds as well as deceptive in his communications.
Why does Ernie get a pass in this situation? Because he tried? I don't buy that. Lots of people try and fail in business. I don't blame him for failing. I blame him and the others involved in the running of the company for the last few months of Alien Dungeon's operations. I blame him for taking orders and not fulfilling them, and more importantly coming up with that bs gift certificate announcement and not following through.
I didn't move the goal post. My position is the same; Ernie fethed up and failed. He gambled on survival and lost. I feel bad for the backers with missing items? I feel bad for Ernie.
You seem to need a villain. I don't think you can make Ernie feel any worse than he already does, but rock on.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/29 07:49:19
" - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke 
