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 targetdg15 wrote:
Much appreciated! I think I'll check out some kroot and possibly a broadside. No spam, and don't be a jerk, got it

Since its a new group of players, how about talking to them about what kinds of games you all are going to be playing - campaign, narrative (the good kind, not the pants on head GW kind of whatever), "competitive", etc. Get a feel for the other players.

Play stuff that you like, and that is interesting to you, while keeping an eye on how games are going, opponents are reacting to your lists and play, etc. As was mentioned, attitude is important.

I wouldn't listen to what your opponent has to say if he's judging your army just on list or how it might play. That's really got nothing to do with how things go in the game.

Finally, don't listen to internet forum posters and their advice (even mine) - talk to your gaming group, figure out how you all want to approach things, and most importantly, have fun!

notredameguy10 wrote:

MorkorpossiblyGork wrote:

j_p_chess wrote:
Everybody is going to throw lead 3rd empire steam tanks at me but here is my two cents. :(.

#1. 7th ed codex's are like playing apoc in my humble opinion. even dark angles can bring cheese XP . I DON'T WANT TO PLAY APOC, sorry.

#2. Every time I play against Tau I feel like i am reading and singing a 50 page rental contract with all the rules and buffs. I always feel bamboozeld, probably most guys are honest but that's how I feel.

I agree with both of those statements. What do you mean you paid 5-10pts for better leadership on your broadsides....wtf. Wait you can ignore LoS? and cover? and you just increased your BS to hit on 2s?

WTF are you talking about? Taking a sergeant, who has better leadership, is in most armies...

Actually for broadsides its something called a bonding knife or some other nonsense not a sergeant. And as far as taking a sergeant? my Nob doesn't have better leadership, Nor does a regular SM Sergeant he only gets better leadership when he is upgraded to a veteran.

MorkorpossiblyGork wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:

MorkorpossiblyGork wrote:

j_p_chess wrote:
Everybody is going to throw lead 3rd empire steam tanks at me but here is my two cents. :(.

#1. 7th ed codex's are like playing apoc in my humble opinion. even dark angles can bring cheese XP . I DON'T WANT TO PLAY APOC, sorry.

#2. Every time I play against Tau I feel like i am reading and singing a 50 page rental contract with all the rules and buffs. I always feel bamboozeld, probably most guys are honest but that's how I feel.

I agree with both of those statements. What do you mean you paid 5-10pts for better leadership on your broadsides....wtf. Wait you can ignore LoS? and cover? and you just increased your BS to hit on 2s?

WTF are you talking about? Taking a sergeant, who has better leadership, is in most armies...

Actually for broadsides its something called a bonding knife or some other nonsense not a sergeant. And as far as taking a sergeant? my Nob doesn't have better leadership, Nor does a regular SM Sergeant he only gets better leadership when he is upgraded to a veteran.

Um, no.
A bonding knife ritual costs a pittance per model and simply makes it so they can regroup below 25%, what you were talking about was definitely a Shas'vre, or a Tau Sargent. Also, those are Orks, not Tau/Eldar/IG/etc who all do that.

Aeri wrote:
I disagree.
There is a line between Fielding a strong force and a cheese list.
Just take Striking Scorps previous tau list for example.
Very strong list, not cheesy at all.

In our group a New player joined and decided to play eldar and he got advice from some people, Ending up with one of the cheesiest lists possible.
He is New and still needs to master it - but he already is "that guy"

Isn't that just an issue of the community as a whole? I mean what got me into Tau was the Riptide, I want to play Riptides because they not only look cool but have a lot of fun abilities. So what if I bring a Riptide Wing? Does that mean I'm just a bad person, or does it mean the game offers me paths that result in negative things?

Again, I might not know anything about the game, your player didn't know anything, and they just buy things they are told are cool or think is cool, and then without intending to be that guy, they are that guy... That's insane!

 Tinkrr wrote:

Aeri wrote:
I disagree.
There is a line between Fielding a strong force and a cheese list.
Just take Striking Scorps previous tau list for example.
Very strong list, not cheesy at all.

In our group a New player joined and decided to play eldar and he got advice from some people, Ending up with one of the cheesiest lists possible.
He is New and still needs to master it - but he already is "that guy"

Isn't that just an issue of the community as a whole? I mean what got me into Tau was the Riptide, I want to play Riptides because they not only look cool but have a lot of fun abilities. So what if I bring a Riptide Wing? Does that mean I'm just a bad person, or does it mean the game offers me paths that result in negative things?

Again, I might not know anything about the game, your player didn't know anything, and they just buy things they are told are cool or think is cool, and then without intending to be that guy, they are that guy... That's insane!

I would say it only goes into that guy territory if you complain about it when someone brings a counter, or don't give someone a heads up what your doing, assuming you're not a new player. Really, it comes down to how you handle yourself at the table, be cool with losing, and cheer along with your opponent when they do something cool. However, there will always people who complain, lose their temper when they lose, bring cheesy lists, and call you a "that guy" even when you are not, yet it is likely they are the that guy and covering.

 Nilok wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:

Aeri wrote:
I disagree.
There is a line between Fielding a strong force and a cheese list.
Just take Striking Scorps previous tau list for example.
Very strong list, not cheesy at all.

In our group a New player joined and decided to play eldar and he got advice from some people, Ending up with one of the cheesiest lists possible.
He is New and still needs to master it - but he already is "that guy"

Isn't that just an issue of the community as a whole? I mean what got me into Tau was the Riptide, I want to play Riptides because they not only look cool but have a lot of fun abilities. So what if I bring a Riptide Wing? Does that mean I'm just a bad person, or does it mean the game offers me paths that result in negative things?

Again, I might not know anything about the game, your player didn't know anything, and they just buy things they are told are cool or think is cool, and then without intending to be that guy, they are that guy... That's insane!

I would say it only goes into that guy territory if you complain about it when someone brings a counter, or don't give someone a heads up what your doing, assuming you're not a new player. Really, it comes down to how you handle yourself at the table, be cool with losing, and cheer along with your opponent when they do something cool. However, there will always people who complain, lose their temper when they lose, bring cheesy lists, and call you a "that guy" even when you are not, yet it is likely they are the that guy and covering.

I think you've said a lot of things, but none of them really come together here. I don't think it's unreasonable to complain when things are going poorly, or if you know the person list tailored to beat you in a none tournament game, as really in test games or more you should generally list de-tailer to test how well your ideal works against the worst case scenario. More so, it's ok to be frustrated, I know most people are, and I know I have been when things were going excessively poorly. One memory that stands out was when I traveled to play in a very expensive MtG event, I was getting crushed on luck, my hotel room sharing friend wasn't helping, and I was on tilt hard, but when I lost to one guy and just felt awful about a mistake I recognized I had made that lost game three of three, he just chatted with me and it made a world of difference. Like sure, I was complaining and more at the time, but this guy also had the same feelings when playing other games competitively and understood the mentality of player who just had so many rounds of bad luck, followed by a misplay, and it just felt right. I think I've been on both sides of this now, and I don't think complaining is an issue itself, but rather how much or how long you complain, especially with how your opponent behaves.

I also don't think cheese is bad, I like playing in cheese lists, in fact I like playing against cheese more than I like fielding it. I just like that aspect of play, it feels more alive to me, and while I can play cheese, I want to play against it just as much, and if I play non-cheese and beat cheese I feel extra accomplished, because maybe, just maybe, I found a non-meta list that will become meta in the future.

I don't know, maybe I'm just dumb, but to me "That Guy" is just someone who seeks out under skilled players and tries to crush them, while they themselves aren't very good players. I remember being part of a discussion about draws in magic, which I am all for, and someone responding that they would never draw in prize because they want to play for it, which is all fair and good, but the previous week when we played for breakers they kept mentioning that I should concede to them because they couldn't afford a draft next week. The sad part is, I almost did, because the prize wasn't as big of a deal to me, and I only didn't because they kept harping on it so much, and to hear them on a forum go on about how much they believed in integrity and playing out the game was just awful. When I posted about that issue, they just said they were joking when it happened, but really now I can't imagine it's a joke after the first five minutes, or when I had won 2-0 and they're still asking.


To me, that's what "That Guy" is, it's someone who is trying to take advantage of others, one way or another. It has nothing to do with cheese or whatever, and everything to do with just trying to abuse people.

Edit: There was another guy too, who was disabled, and he used it to his advantage hard. To the extent that the judges who had to shuffle his deck for him, as he couldn't himself, had to count the cards to make sure he wasn't trying to skim an advantage here or there. They even caught him cheating with the same methods after he ended his ban for those things, now that's super "That Guy" behavior.


.

 Tinkrr wrote:

Spoiler:

 Nilok wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:

Aeri wrote:
I disagree.
There is a line between Fielding a strong force and a cheese list.
Just take Striking Scorps previous tau list for example.
Very strong list, not cheesy at all.

In our group a New player joined and decided to play eldar and he got advice from some people, Ending up with one of the cheesiest lists possible.
He is New and still needs to master it - but he already is "that guy"

Isn't that just an issue of the community as a whole? I mean what got me into Tau was the Riptide, I want to play Riptides because they not only look cool but have a lot of fun abilities. So what if I bring a Riptide Wing? Does that mean I'm just a bad person, or does it mean the game offers me paths that result in negative things?

Again, I might not know anything about the game, your player didn't know anything, and they just buy things they are told are cool or think is cool, and then without intending to be that guy, they are that guy... That's insane!

I would say it only goes into that guy territory if you complain about it when someone brings a counter, or don't give someone a heads up what your doing, assuming you're not a new player. Really, it comes down to how you handle yourself at the table, be cool with losing, and cheer along with your opponent when they do something cool. However, there will always people who complain, lose their temper when they lose, bring cheesy lists, and call you a "that guy" even when you are not, yet it is likely they are the that guy and covering.

I think you've said a lot of things, but none of them really come together here. I don't think it's unreasonable to complain when things are going poorly, or if you know the person list tailored to beat you in a none tournament game, as really in test games or more you should generally list de-tailer to test how well your ideal works against the worst case scenario. More so, it's ok to be frustrated, I know most people are, and I know I have been when things were going excessively poorly. One memory that stands out was when I traveled to play in a very expensive MtG event, I was getting crushed on luck, my hotel room sharing friend wasn't helping, and I was on tilt hard, but when I lost to one guy and just felt awful about a mistake I recognized I had made that lost game three of three, he just chatted with me and it made a world of difference. Like sure, I was complaining and more at the time, but this guy also had the same feelings when playing other games competitively and understood the mentality of player who just had so many rounds of bad luck, followed by a misplay, and it just felt right. I think I've been on both sides of this now, and I don't think complaining is an issue itself, but rather how much or how long you complain, especially with how your opponent behaves.

I also don't think cheese is bad, I like playing in cheese lists, in fact I like playing against cheese more than I like fielding it. I just like that aspect of play, it feels more alive to me, and while I can play cheese, I want to play against it just as much, and if I play non-cheese and beat cheese I feel extra accomplished, because maybe, just maybe, I found a non-meta list that will become meta in the future.

I don't know, maybe I'm just dumb, but to me "That Guy" is just someone who seeks out under skilled players and tries to crush them, while they themselves aren't very good players. I remember being part of a discussion about draws in magic, which I am all for, and someone responding that they would never draw in prize because they want to play for it, which is all fair and good, but the previous week when we played for breakers they kept mentioning that I should concede to them because they couldn't afford a draft next week. The sad part is, I almost did, because the prize wasn't as big of a deal to me, and I only didn't because they kept harping on it so much, and to hear them on a forum go on about how much they believed in integrity and playing out the game was just awful. When I posted about that issue, they just said they were joking when it happened, but really now I can't imagine it's a joke after the first five minutes, or when I had won 2-0 and they're still asking.


To me, that's what "That Guy" is, it's someone who is trying to take advantage of others, one way or another. It has nothing to do with cheese or whatever, and everything to do with just trying to abuse people.

Edit: There was another guy too, who was disabled, and he used it to his advantage hard. To the extent that the judges who had to shuffle his deck for him, as he couldn't himself, had to count the cards to make sure he wasn't trying to skim an advantage here or there. They even caught him cheating with the same methods after he ended his ban for those things, now that's super "That Guy" behavior.


.

I think you may be a touch extrapolating more than I expected. I wasn't saying cheesy lists as an exclusive for being a "that guy," you can definitely take cheesy lists like in a situation that is expected like a tournament or have given a heads up. It was more that a "that guy" tend to have many of the qualities listed, and yes, playing against less skilled opponents just to win and get an ego boost is definitely a "that guy" trait. Someone can play the same cheesy list, but give tips to their opponents if it a friendly game, or give recommendations afterwards if it is a competitive game and not be a that guy, so long as they aren't being patronizing in the process.

Really, as I said, it comes down to how you present yourself on and off the table. Being a good sport, pitching in, and generally being a decent person all help not being a "that guy." Also (if you are over 21) don't just drink the last beer (or other beverage of choice), offer it up first.

I am -somewhat- in the same boat (so to speak) as the OP, I am just getting back into 40k with Tau due to the army style and models.

My worry is that my FLGS will see that I have Tau and will;
A) B**th, Moan and gripe over Tau
B) Refuse to play
C) Counter my list so hard that I get tabled in turn 2,
D) get shunned with bringing a front-running army.

But I do understand that there is always going to be someone who is just generally offended (loose term association) when the word Tau is even spoken

If (just my opinion, take it with a grain of salt) assaults weren't punished so hard I would love to play Mono-Khorne list more but I have a hard time having fun when one of the core styles of the army is punished so bad (but that's a different topic completely)

Edit: I changed the army to Khorne Demons, I just finished watching a Tyranid BR before I wrote that.

Tau? Not TFG? Sacrilege I say!