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I have a 1500 point match coming up vs Eldar. My primary detachment must be chaos marines. But I can take allies. I suspect my opponent will be using Dark Eldar allies. Any thing 40k legal is a go.

I am assuming from I've seen recently that I need to weather his fire power. And use as many weapons that ignore cover as possible. Other then that. My goal is to survive.

Any Chaos players play against Eldar recently and have advice?

Daemon allies, get some psychic in there because they're gonna have some, too.

Is there any particular reason why you have to play CSM? Cos they kinda struggle in the ignores cover department,

Mabye mass squads of Raptors with double flamers? Can't really think of anything else at the moment.

Screamerstar works against Eldar. The Screamer can kill the whole army in 7 turns, but you either need a LoS blocker or first turn. It is also important to take D-weapons (the full ones, not the ones with -1) out as fast as possible.

An other option are 60 Khorne dogs. Or at least so many, that can't shoot them, until they get into melee.

2 Dragons are also great, because they can kill everything and he has a hard time to deal with them. Combine them with Screamerstar or MANY Khorne dogs (not just 25...at least 40).

Oh and my main chaos list would consist of 2*10 cultists + either a Psker or Belakor (Belakor makes dogs invisible...that is fun).

Raptors will drop like flies compared to Bikers. You'll still have a bitch of a time catching Scatterbikes though.
Maulerfiends are naturally fast, but two squads of Scatterbikes will statistically put it down.

Assuming the opponent is choosing to use Psykers, allying Gorepack from the Daemonkin codex might be your best option. Even then it's still excellent.

I play on both sides of that fight. It's a tough matchup for CSM.

The core thing you need to do is a) play the mission and b) not get tabled. Obviously you should kill some Eldar if you have the opportunity, but don't let yourself get into a shooting competition. You're going to lose if you play that way. Accomplish objectives as efficiently as you can, then bunker down and survive.

If you have access to Daemons, then I would definitely ally some in. Chaos can actually compete with Eldar on the psychic front, and Daemons have a lot of mobile assault units that can double as objective grabbers.

For your CSM themselves... I wouldn't say you need Ignores Cover; more important is that you don't take garbage units. Be'Lakor is a great HQ who you can use to influence your opponent's positioning. Juggerlords can wipe out even the elite Eldar melee units. Zombies and Bikes can shrug off bladestorm. Cultists can devour bullets and camp objectives at minimal cost to you. Stuff like that. If you're going Khorne, then look into using the Daemonkin codex - it has some strong, fluffy army building options that will give you better chance against Eldar.

Ill make the game simple for you

1) Take a Typhon Heavy Siege Tank, park it in the middle of your half of the board and gak on everything that comes across that middle field.

2) Take Be'Lakor and Invis your Typhon for hilarious Gak and make your Eldar playing Opponent hate life and never want to play against you ever again.

Typhon tank and Sicarians for sure. Take a warpsmith so you can spam Sicarians if you got them.

 WarbossDakka wrote:
Is there any particular reason why you have to play CSM? Cos they kinda struggle in the ignores cover department,.

Sorry forgot to mention. Its part of a local league. I signed up as Chaos Marines, so I have to make it my primary detachment for every league game. The league has been going on for a while and our matches are set mostly by win loss ratio. I have been doing fairly well, which means this Eldar player isn't top of the league. But hes no push over.

Thy Typhon sounds good. I have a nicely converted landraider that will do the trick. No Sicarians yet, or Be'Lakor. Might be able to find an appropriate stand in for Be"lakor. Don't want to push proxy to much.

I do have a few demons I can bring, usually save those for summing. But with eldar I should probable have them on the table to start.

You can take Belakor as your warlord along with the Typhon. The combination will put a lot of pressure on the eldar and probably take the heat off your other units.

You can take on Eldar with CSM, but honestly you will need some help from Forgeworld to take on anything competitive. I run a Forgeworld-heavy CSM list, and have done quite well with it locally. I did a batrep against the mighty Eldar as well. Enjoy.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/675884.page

My next list idea is to use Mutilators (because everyone says they suck). The idea is to use a Purge detachment and a Crimson Slaughter CAD. Here is an approximation for an 1850 list, feel free to use it or tweak it as you see fit:

Crimson Slaughter Purge Detachment
1- Chaos Lord: Demonheart armor, Slaughterer's Horns, Powerfist/Lightning Claw, Sigil of Corruption, Mark of Nurgle
3- Mutilators: Mark of Nurgle
1- Contemptor Dreadnought: Havoc Launcher, Autocannon, Heavy Conversion Beamer
5- Terminators: Lightning Claw/Combi-Plasma
1- Maulerfiend
1- Maulerfiend
1- Fire Raptor Gunship: autocannons, Legacy of Tzeenakh the Occluder
3- Obliterators: Mark of Nurgle
Crimson Slaughter CAD
1- Sorcerer: Lvl 2, Spell Familiar, Balestar of Mannon (for Prescience)
10- Cultists
10- Cultists
1- Dreadclaw Drop pod

Put the Lord and Mutilators in the Drop pod, probably keep them inside it when it drops. Use it to gain extra movement for the slow Mutilators. Sorcerer sits in the backfield and plinks away with Prescienced, possibly ignores cover (perfect timing) shots from the Obliterators. Maulerfiends run up the board and distract/smash things to bits, the Fire Raptor rules the skies, and the Dreadnought drops pie plates from the back corner while Terminators drop in and try to get into melee as well.

I've had success with spawns + a bunch of solo mutilators and oblis and daemon allies to reduce scatter, masque and summon stuff.

Can't you take Belakor as a detachment by himself? Make him your warlord and that's your primary detachment sorted. You're now free to take any detachments from any army you like!

@ homeskillet: I think people trying to use mutilators in large units accompanying a lord (admittedly land raidered, not podded) was a large part of why mutilators got the reputation they have. Their strength is in cheap punch that can pop up anywhere, not in expensive escorting, but good luck; perhaps the pod will make the difference!

nareik wrote:
Can't you take Belakor as a detachment by himself? Make him your warlord and that's your primary detachment sorted. You're now free to take any detachments from any army you like!

No you can't. He's just an HQ choice for CSM and Daemons

No Eldar player will be scared by Mutilators and I'm telling you that right now. They can create an army with MINIMUM S6 shooting. T5 2+ isn't hard to go through. Wraithknights will literally laugh at you.

I'm thinking Belakor and a Mace Prince are absolutely mandatory. You don't have other efficient means to deal with Wraithknights. Regarding Scatterbikes, you have two options:
1. Blight Drones aren't too tough compared to Heldrakes, but have a better range to hit them with and are easier to hide. Ridiculously so. The Reaper can also help force Jinking on a Crimson Hunter, but some might not elect to do it (the math doesn't look good on a BS2 TL S7 weapon...
2. Heldrakes have less threat range but are significantly tougher and are guaranteed more kills when they shoot the bikes or Wraithguard. Additionally they can Vector Strike Hunters, but they're very unlikely to be within range.

I'm working on testing a list with two Blight Drones to see how they function as an alternative to Heldrakes. Time will tell on that end. The math doesn't look great but I think the threat range will definitely help. Rhinos will have an easier time moving forward if I can force Jinks.

If you're after some ignores cover the Noise Marines have that in buckets, plus blastmasters will put the hurt on the Raiders and Venoms he will likely bring. I know they aren't Plague Marines but I would still put them above 1k Sons, Bezerkers or regular CSM. Just have to mitigate their cost with some Cultists. Plus fearless cultist blobs are a great way to neutralise a powerful shooty army.

To be honest, i've never been able to outshoot eldar. But it's possible to mitigate their shooting. Solo obliterators deepstriking and shooting tl plazmaguns at bikes will force either jinking or ld checks - both is good. Mutilators are still gona be fine for objective pressure. Drop one - two and daemonettes and you'll force hard choices - either stay and risk getting meleed ot move away and shoot more. But i think that in this very case, obliterators are gona be more useful than mutilators just to force jinks.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
No Eldar player will be scared by Mutilators and I'm telling you that right now. They can create an army with MINIMUM S6 shooting. T5 2+ isn't hard to go through. Wraithknights will literally laugh at you.

I'm thinking Belakor and a Mace Prince are absolutely mandatory. You don't have other efficient means to deal with Wraithknights. Regarding Scatterbikes, you have two options:
1. Blight Drones aren't too tough compared to Heldrakes, but have a better range to hit them with and are easier to hide. Ridiculously so. The Reaper can also help force Jinking on a Crimson Hunter, but some might not elect to do it (the math doesn't look good on a BS2 TL S7 weapon...
2. Heldrakes have less threat range but are significantly tougher and are guaranteed more kills when they shoot the bikes or Wraithguard. Additionally they can Vector Strike Hunters, but they're very unlikely to be within range.

I'm working on testing a list with two Blight Drones to see how they function as an alternative to Heldrakes. Time will tell on that end. The math doesn't look great but I think the threat range will definitely help. Rhinos will have an easier time moving forward if I can force Jinks.

It would be a foolish idea to send Mutilators after a Wraithknight. Unless you have a unit that can reliably take the Wraithknight out, I've found it best to simply avoid him and focus on everything else.

How does one JUST avoid a Wraithknight? They have 36" guns and are Jump Gargantuan...

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
How does one JUST avoid a Wraithknight? They have 36" guns and are Jump Gargantuan...

Deploy away from him and when he goes to try and shoot with it ... break its weapons off? lol JK I am curious about that myself.

Well, you can minimize its impact. Shoot other things instead. Don't charge it. Etc. It'll still punch above its weight, but it won't do as much.

Here you go, a tactical breakdown battle report video of chaos beating eldar:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhNKWAH9Sj0

Invisibility is your friend

Note - don't go with the bastion like he did just get normal void shields since apparently he played it wrong (admits it in comments but says void shield would have played out the same and probobly would have been better)

If you don't have the void shield model don't worry it is out of production - just scrap build one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
He takes Belakor, and 2 lvl 3 no-mark sorcerers on bike that roll on telepathy so good chance of getting 3 psykers with invisibility.

Melionodr wrote:
Screamerstar works against Eldar. The Screamer can kill the whole army in 7 turns, but you either need a LoS blocker or first turn. It is also important to take D-weapons (the full ones, not the ones with -1) out as fast as possible.

An other option are 60 Khorne dogs. Or at least so many, that can't shoot them, until they get into melee.

2 Dragons are also great, because they can kill everything and he has a hard time to deal with them. Combine them with Screamerstar or MANY Khorne dogs (not just 25...at least 40).

Oh and my main chaos list would consist of 2*10 cultists + either a Psker or Belakor (Belakor makes dogs invisible...that is fun).

Came here to suggest some of these items.

 Cieged wrote:

Melionodr wrote:
Screamerstar works against Eldar. The Screamer can kill the whole army in 7 turns, but you either need a LoS blocker or first turn. It is also important to take D-weapons (the full ones, not the ones with -1) out as fast as possible.

An other option are 60 Khorne dogs. Or at least so many, that can't shoot them, until they get into melee.

2 Dragons are also great, because they can kill everything and he has a hard time to deal with them. Combine them with Screamerstar or MANY Khorne dogs (not just 25...at least 40).

Oh and my main chaos list would consist of 2*10 cultists + either a Psker or Belakor (Belakor makes dogs invisible...that is fun).

Came here to suggest some of these items.

Take Khorne dogs from Daemonkin instead of Daemons - the lose instability and gain fearless - and if you take a gorepack formation they gain hammer of wrath.

And can eventually summon something if you're lucky enough.

You guys are throwing all kinds of stuff without asking what he has to work with.

So, so far the consensus has hit the high points:

Sicarans for ignore cover Str 7.

Belakor + something killy for invis shenanigans. Good tandems include Chaos Knights, Greater Brass Scorpions, DThirsters, and Black Mace DP's.

With low toughness, them Black Mace DP's can really wreck shop on Eldar that are bunched up.

Spawn, Maulerfiends and bikes all give you some mobility and toughness, so sprinkle in as points allow.

Daemons provide some awesome psychic and deathstar builds. Invis Screamerstar Dronestar or HoundBlob all work great even against top tier netlisted eldar.

Fire Raptors and Heldrakes are 1 and 2 for some of the best air units out there. That said, Eldar have some air power too, so either go heavy and dominate the skies or bring nothing. Just one wont be all that helpful if Eldar come prepared.

R&H gives access to crazy cheap high power artillery. 3 Str 9 AP 2 shots at BS 3 with TL is under 80 pts. It's kinda stupidly underpriced.

Another option I haven't seen mention is the use of Khorne Daemonkin allies. Collars of Khorne provide excellent Deny The Witch protection, and they have access to a lot of fast (and cheap) melee units to distract the Eldar shooting units.

You cannot "ignore" a Superheavy. Unless your units can move more that twelve inches a turn, you will get charged and caught. One way or another, you will need to deal with the Wraithknight. Unfortunately, CSM are the army least capable of doing so. I would suggest either Daemon allies for psychic shenanigans or KDK to kill Wraithknights. Either way, you're going to need a lot of Axes of Khorne.

 mondo80 wrote:
You guys are throwing all kinds of stuff without asking what he has to work with.

Yep, we don't even know what he has and what's allowed.

 koooaei wrote:

 mondo80 wrote:
You guys are throwing all kinds of stuff without asking what he has to work with.

Yep, we don't even know what he has and what's allowed.

I assume moderate funds and regular rules.