Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
New x-wing player looking for advice on building a solid but somewhat forgiving Empire list as I learn more about the game mechanics beyond what I can pick up from YouTube
I noticed that there haven't been a whole lot of TIE-Defender lists (and I confess that I can't wait for some of the expected mods for more options) but I really love the concept and the list is kind of centered around it.
I also have models of three Interceptors and two pre-Battle of Endor TIEs (old starter box, interceptor, Imperial aces, Defender, Advance and the Advance pilots/ upgrades from the raider box).
I also don't have a lot of the cards that seem pretty standard (like vet. instincts or stealth device) but can use builders to proxy if needed.
The theory was to use Alozen's ability to aquire target locks to boost Vessery with free locks (leaving him free for focus or other actions, or to lock up a different target). And with that ability and the fact that he's the last one firing (so most likely to have hits go through shields and cause damage) it seemed natural to give him the ATC
JUNO with the accuracy corrector (free from the x1) getting 2 auto hits at range seemed like a good firepower boost, especially at longer ranges (also freeing him to stick a lock on another ship and leave it there for Vessery) and swarm to let one of the other ships fire faster.
Vessery in the Defender with Predator seemed like a good counter to the tactic of swarming or using a low-cost pilot/ ship as a moment blocker, but I could go almost any other direction on that.
The Concussion missiles/ failsafe seemed like a good way to get some longer range hitting power, but I was also thinking about cluster missiles or proton rockets.
I put the ordinance on Alozen as a way to spread the points value around but if Vessery can have 2 locks on the same, target cluster missiles with him could be especially fun. Or proton rockets on Alozen (so he can use his actions to focus) and auto target lock for the reroll on all the dice. Or if sticking with the missiles is the way to go, I don't see a problem with putting them on either of the other ships.
And if the list is basically flawed/ weak/overpriced, please let me know. But I'm not a big fan of cookie cutter lists.
Why not? This is really not a good place to be starting as a newbie. If you insist on staying away from good lists because they're too popular you're just going to lose a lot of games and not have much fun.
As for your list, it's pretty weak. The problem is you have pilot and upgrade choices that don't make a lot of sense. Juno has very little firepower for her point cost and wastes her EPT slot on swarm tactics (she wants freedom to maneuver, not tight formation flying). Alozen has missiles that can't be used at the same range as his pilot ability, and is a pretty weak pilot in general. Vessery wastes points and his EPT slot on predator, since having a free target lock on every shot makes another source of re-rolls irrelevant.
In general I would just forget about the defender until the new upgrades come out. It's a terrible ship right now, and you're only going to end up frustrated and wishing you could have the balance fix already.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
Apostasus wrote: New x-wing player looking for advice on building a solid but somewhat forgiving Empire list as I learn more about the game mechanics beyond what I can pick up from YouTube
I noticed that there haven't been a whole lot of TIE-Defender lists (and I confess that I can't wait for some of the expected mods for more options) but I really love the concept and the list is kind of centered around it.
I also have models of three Interceptors and two pre-Battle of Endor TIEs (old starter box, interceptor, Imperial aces, Defender, Advance and the Advance pilots/ upgrades from the raider box).
I also don't have a lot of the cards that seem pretty standard (like vet. instincts or stealth device) but can use builders to proxy if needed.
The theory was to use Alozen's ability to aquire target locks to boost Vessery with free locks (leaving him free for focus or other actions, or to lock up a different target). And with that ability and the fact that he's the last one firing (so most likely to have hits go through shields and cause damage) it seemed natural to give him the ATC
JUNO with the accuracy corrector (free from the x1) getting 2 auto hits at range seemed like a good firepower boost, especially at longer ranges (also freeing him to stick a lock on another ship and leave it there for Vessery) and swarm to let one of the other ships fire faster.
Vessery in the Defender with Predator seemed like a good counter to the tactic of swarming or using a low-cost pilot/ ship as a moment blocker, but I could go almost any other direction on that.
The Concussion missiles/ failsafe seemed like a good way to get some longer range hitting power, but I was also thinking about cluster missiles or proton rockets.
I put the ordinance on Alozen as a way to spread the points value around but if Vessery can have 2 locks on the same, target cluster missiles with him could be especially fun. Or proton rockets on Alozen (so he can use his actions to focus) and auto target lock for the reroll on all the dice. Or if sticking with the missiles is the way to go, I don't see a problem with putting them on either of the other ships.
And if the list is basically flawed/ weak/overpriced, please let me know. But I'm not a big fan of cookie cutter lists.
Thanks for your time and thoughts
Vessery has no need for Predator. If you're playing halfway correctly he'll be getting a target lock on every single attack anyways.
I'd recommend using something else on Vessery, either boost his PS with veteran instincts, up his survivability with something like Lone Wolf or Expert Handling, or a cannon of some sort (right now Heavy laser cannon is the defacto, but when the new titles come out he'll be pretty brutal with any of the cheaper ones) Also I'd consider Twin Ion Engine Mk II nearly mandatory. It's just so good. You don't NEED it per se, but the first time you get a defender stressed you'll realize why having a green other than a straight move is a good thing.
Juno's pretty good with Accuracy corrector. I'd say that's fairly solid as is.
As for Colzet, I feel like you've got him way too loaded up with stuff at the moment. He seems like a guy meant to be kept cheap, ideally just the title and an Accuracy corrector, but I have very little experience with Tie Advances, so I'd take my advice with a grain of salt.
As for general advice, don't be afraid of cookie cutter lists. You're new, you're not exactly going to be able to crush people with them unless the other guy is a newbie and brought a crappy list. I guarantee a more experienced player can bring a sub optimal list and still have a very good advantage through experience (I know this from experience, I purposefully tone my lists down when playing newer players) Just don't run the really obnoxious ones like Decimator/Fel or double turrets for rebels and you'll rarely hear anyone complain. Some combos are just common because they make sense, Fel with PTL, Tarn Mison with R7, etc. etc.
If your group is cool with proxying the new titles that aren't out yet and you have a third advanced, this could be a fun list to goof around with, and still be fairly strong
100 points
------
Colonel Vessery TIE Defender, Veteran Instincts, TIE/x7, Twin Ion Engine Mk. II - 35
Tempest Squadron Pilot TIE Advanced TIE/x1 , Accuracy Corrector - 21
Tempest Squadron Pilot TIE Advanced TIE/x1 , Accuracy Corrector - 21
Lieutenant Colzet TIE Advanced, TIE/x1, Accuracy Corrector -23
Gives you 4 ships that are surprisingly durable, an "Ace", and very consistent damage output. The Advances really don't need their TL's so you can just chuck them on different enemy ships that you expect to send Vessery after and Colzet can wait to flip his crit when the oppurtunity arises.
Is it worlds quality? Probably not, but considering a very hyped list online for a while was literally 4 advances and a TIE, I'd think a souped up defender and 3 advances could do well.
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
Apostasus wrote: New x-wing player looking for advice on building a solid but somewhat forgiving Empire list as I learn more about the game mechanics beyond what I can pick up from YouTube
I noticed that there haven't been a whole lot of TIE-Defender lists (and I confess that I can't wait for some of the expected mods for more options) but I really love the concept and the list is kind of centered around it.
I also have models of three Interceptors and two pre-Battle of Endor TIEs (old starter box, interceptor, Imperial aces, Defender, Advance and the Advance pilots/ upgrades from the raider box).
I also don't have a lot of the cards that seem pretty standard (like vet. instincts or stealth device) but can use builders to proxy if needed.
The theory was to use Alozen's ability to aquire target locks to boost Vessery with free locks (leaving him free for focus or other actions, or to lock up a different target). And with that ability and the fact that he's the last one firing (so most likely to have hits go through shields and cause damage) it seemed natural to give him the ATC
JUNO with the accuracy corrector (free from the x1) getting 2 auto hits at range seemed like a good firepower boost, especially at longer ranges (also freeing him to stick a lock on another ship and leave it there for Vessery) and swarm to let one of the other ships fire faster.
Vessery in the Defender with Predator seemed like a good counter to the tactic of swarming or using a low-cost pilot/ ship as a moment blocker, but I could go almost any other direction on that.
The Concussion missiles/ failsafe seemed like a good way to get some longer range hitting power, but I was also thinking about cluster missiles or proton rockets.
I put the ordinance on Alozen as a way to spread the points value around but if Vessery can have 2 locks on the same, target cluster missiles with him could be especially fun. Or proton rockets on Alozen (so he can use his actions to focus) and auto target lock for the reroll on all the dice. Or if sticking with the missiles is the way to go, I don't see a problem with putting them on either of the other ships.
And if the list is basically flawed/ weak/overpriced, please let me know. But I'm not a big fan of cookie cutter lists.
Thanks for your time and thoughts
Vessery has no need for Predator. If you're playing halfway correctly he'll be getting a target lock on every single attack anyways.
I'd recommend using something else on Vessery, either boost his PS with veteran instincts, up his survivability with something like Lone Wolf or Expert Handling, or a cannon of some sort (right now Heavy laser cannon is the defacto, but when the new titles come out he'll be pretty brutal with any of the cheaper ones) Also I'd consider Twin Ion Engine Mk II nearly mandatory. It's just so good. You don't NEED it per se, but the first time you get a defender stressed you'll realize why having a green other than a straight move is a good thing.
Juno's pretty good with Accuracy corrector. I'd say that's fairly solid as is.
As for Colzet, I feel like you've got him way too loaded up with stuff at the moment. He seems like a guy meant to be kept cheap, ideally just the title and an Accuracy corrector, but I have very little experience with Tie Advances, so I'd take my advice with a grain of salt.
As for general advice, don't be afraid of cookie cutter lists. You're new, you're not exactly going to be able to crush people with them unless the other guy is a newbie and brought a crappy list. I guarantee a more experienced player can bring a sub optimal list and still have a very good advantage through experience (I know this from experience, I purposefully tone my lists down when playing newer players) Just don't run the really obnoxious ones like Decimator/Fel or double turrets for rebels and you'll rarely hear anyone complain. Some combos are just common because they make sense, Fel with PTL, Tarn Mison with R7, etc. etc.
If your group is cool with proxying the new titles that aren't out yet and you have a third advanced, this could be a fun list to goof around with, and still be fairly strong
100 points
------
Colonel Vessery TIE Defender, Veteran Instincts, TIE/x7, Twin Ion Engine Mk. II - 35
Tempest Squadron Pilot TIE Advanced TIE/x1 , Accuracy Corrector - 21
Tempest Squadron Pilot TIE Advanced TIE/x1 , Accuracy Corrector - 21
Lieutenant Colzet TIE Advanced, TIE/x1, Accuracy Corrector -23
Gives you 4 ships that are surprisingly durable, an "Ace", and very consistent damage output. The Advances really don't need their TL's so you can just chuck them on different enemy ships that you expect to send Vessery after and Colzet can wait to flip his crit when the oppurtunity arises.
Is it worlds quality? Probably not, but considering a very hyped list online for a while was literally 4 advances and a TIE, I'd think a souped up defender and 3 advances could do well.
Tempests with ATC are 22 points and you want accuracy correctors on them anyway since they don't have great action economy, don't have modifiers on their red die (since you'll use focus to defend) and won't have target locks on the right targets all the time. 2 hits will usually pay off more than a single crit anyway. (Crit only does one damage to shields, easier to cancel with green die, and even when it goes through has a good effect about 1/2 of the time)
I think Colzet is meh. He's mildly better than a Tempest Squad for 2 points more but he has the same problems listed above. And trading a TL for a flip up on a random damage card really only pays off against Chewbacca
Proud supporter of
It is human nature to seek culpability in a time of tragedy. It is a sign of strength to cry out against fate, rather than to bow one's head and succumb.
-Gabriel Angelos
Vessery, either boost his PS with veteran instincts, up his survivability with something like Lone Wolf or Expert Handling, or a cannon of some sort (right now Heavy laser cannon is the defacto, but when the new titles come out he'll be pretty brutal with any of the cheaper ones) Also I'd consider Twin Ion Engine Mk II
I can definitely see the benefits of the engine upgrade. As for the Pred. I thought it would boost the TL effects, but on 2nd look I won't be throwing enough dice to make it worth it.
With the Mk. II engine, what do you think of Stay on Target? I rejected it because of the Defender dial without it, but it looks interesting as a maneuver boost.
Juno has very little firepower for her point cost and wastes her EPT slot on swarm tactics (she wants freedom to maneuver, not tight formation flying)
I see the point... I don't think I realized just how close range 1 had to be when I picked it.
What about Squadron leader or (Stay on Target + Mk II engine) ? The maneuver boost of the 2nd combo added to her basic ability seems like a good fit.
As for the lack of firepower, the accuracy corrector allows her 2 guaranteed hits per shot to make up for some of that. It seemed like a good way to strip shields and do consistent damage at range. But I want Juno concentrating fire with at least one of the other ships (possibly Alozen whose ATC can guarantee a critical every shot.
Alozen, I think could benefit from the Predator as the ATC (unlike the accuracy corrector) does allow dice mods after the bonus critical, just not target lock rerolls. But I could be wrong and/or the 3 points (or the EPT slot) could be better used for other things.
In general I view him as sort of the cleanup hitter, targeting ships that the other 2 have knocked down somewhat.
Thanks for the replies and I will keep tinkering
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, I initially rejected Vader mainly because, well, it feels strange to have such a major character (also the x7 for the Defender would be after Vader's death, no?)
But Vader in an x1 with ATC/accuracy, and possibly an engine upgrade (to give him more options for the extra actions) and an EPT boost of some kind (open to suggestions but thinking out maneuver or daredevil or elusive)
Also, the missiles could go on any of the ships but if I stick with using them on Alozen or Vessery switching to proton rockets or deadeye + cluster missiles)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/26 17:11:50
Predator doesn't allow you to reroll a second time.
If you had a target lock and predator, you would have to pick ONE to use. That's why it's not really necessary. On Rex or some other characters, predator is an excellent ability, vessery is just an outside case.
Predator would pair well with the Advanced targeting computer, as predator essentially gives you a free TL saving the actual target lock to be used for a crit.
Also, stay on target might work for juno (although she doesn't really need it), but don't bother with it on vessery. The whole point is to allow a high PS ship to react to a lower ship's move. Ps6 won't be high enough to make the card worth it. Overall I'd advise against using that card for now as it'll make you lazy in the movement phase if you just think "eh, I can change it if I screw up."
Sounds like you're not very familiar with the rules yet. Might want to read your rulebook again so you can better understand what some of these abilities mean. Just get in some pick up games with whatever you think is good to you, and you'll learn very quickly about why some cards aren't recommended for certain pilots and whatnot.
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
