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Martel732 wrote:
Never shoot the wk unless you have d weapons or grav cannons. You much better off killing the scat bikes.

Don't underestimate a "fear factor" of the WK. A lot of opponents will just throw anything they have at it trying to kill it before it goes to their line and starts to kick asses .

AstraVlad wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Never shoot the wk unless you have d weapons or grav cannons. You much better off killing the scat bikes.

Don't underestimate a "fear factor" of the WK. A lot of opponents will just throw anything they have at it trying to kill it before it goes to their line and stars to kick asses .

Then a lot of opponents are bad. I actually fear the scatterbikes a lot more.

Martel732 wrote:

AstraVlad wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Never shoot the wk unless you have d weapons or grav cannons. You much better off killing the scat bikes.

Don't underestimate a "fear factor" of the WK. A lot of opponents will just throw anything they have at it trying to kill it before it goes to their line and stars to kick asses .

Then a lot of opponents are bad. I actually fear the scatterbikes a lot more.

I wouldn't say those opponents are bad, merely caught in a horned dilemma. Do you try to kill the Gargantuan Creature and ignore the Scatbikers, or do you kill the Scatbikers and try to ignore the Wraithknight? Either way, you're still dead.

Why did you bring the two Lords? They're just...bad.

The wk kills a lot slower than the bikes, though. And isn't obj sec.

You can deal with those saves in one of two ways - make your opponent take a ton of saves, or ignore the saves in some way. Eldar have options for both. What they don't have is terribly many meatshields - so use terrain and cover, use Battle Focus or jet pack moves (Spiders, Spears, Windriders) to stay out of LOS and/or in cover. When you can't, use target saturation and expect to lose something - present your opponent with the hard choice of what to kill (and they will kill something).

Here's the catch - scatter lasers are not, in a vacuum, overpoweringly amazing weapons. They have stinky AP6, so they're not going to reliably kill models with each individual shot. Why they work is that you can get a ton of shots, so to use them well, you need platforms that get a ton of shots - namely, scatterbikes.

If you aren't using bikes, I find you're better off with other weapons. Folks keep saying that Wraithlords are bad - I don't want to agree, but I mostly do. They're not worthless, but as fire platforms, you're better off with Falcons or Fire Prisms. If you must take them (say, because they're all you have), then take weapons you can't get elsewhere - starcannons, brightlances, or if you have to use them as AA, missiles.

Another unit to consider is Dark Reapers - they're not half bad. Not super-broken mega-cheese, but they can put the hurt on units with 3+ saves. Take the Starshot Missiles too, if your points allow, since you never know when they'll come in handy, but their real role is not wrecking tanks, it's chewing up MEQ and similar. The Starshots are for gibbing Crisis Suits, Tyranid Warriors and their ilk. You might get lucky and gib Paladins and such with them, but don't rely on it.

jade_angel wrote:
Here's the catch - scatter lasers are not, in a vacuum, overpoweringly amazing weapons. They have stinky AP6, so they're not going to reliably kill models with each individual shot. Why they work is that you can get a ton of shots, so to use them well, you need platforms that get a ton of shots - namely, scatterbikes.

What makes them work is the range of the weapon, and the speed of the platform. Being able to move 2d6" in the assault phase means those scatter bikes can just hide under cover, pop out and shoot, then hide again. The fact that they are troops and can get OS is just the icing on the cake.

Dark Reapers tear through bikes.
Most bikes are 3+, and S4 or S5.
Ignoring Jink is the killer there, though, as that exists so rarely.

 labmouse42 wrote:

jade_angel wrote:
Here's the catch - scatter lasers are not, in a vacuum, overpoweringly amazing weapons. They have stinky AP6, so they're not going to reliably kill models with each individual shot. Why they work is that you can get a ton of shots, so to use them well, you need platforms that get a ton of shots - namely, scatterbikes.

What makes them work is the range of the weapon, and the speed of the platform. Being able to move 2d6" in the assault phase means those scatter bikes can just hide under cover, pop out and shoot, then hide again. The fact that they are troops and can get OS is just the icing on the cake.

This is also why, for example, missile pod Crisis Suits are frustrating as hell (though they can't move 12" to start with).

I like running shuriken cannon bikes instead - they're better at chewing through armor saves (provided that strong invulns or cover don't neutralize that), and the 24" range requires a bit more skill on the controlling player's part to avoid getting shot up. But on the other hand, 36" with jump-shoot-jump makes a unit incredibly hard to pin down...

jade_angel wrote:
I like running shuriken cannon bikes instead - they're better at chewing through armor saves (provided that strong invulns or cover don't neutralize that), and the 24" range requires a bit more skill on the controlling player's part to avoid getting shot up. But on the other hand, 36" with jump-shoot-jump makes a unit incredibly hard to pin down...

Here is a handy chart I found showing all the percentages!
The summary is the cannon is better against armored targets in the open, where the laser is better against targets in cover, or armored targets.


The scatter laser's big advantage is range. The difference between a 24" gun and 36" gun is a lot more than just 12". It increases your overall threat range by 12". Since your threat range can often be viewed as a circle (depending on the board edge location). Given the area of a circle is A=π * radius (squared), you are talking about the difference between 1809 square inches and 4049 square inches! To see this in action, take a tape measure from your figure and see how much you can hit with a 36" range vs a 24" range. You get over twice the hitting options with the scatter laser.