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Why a single? Why not d3 each but snaps?

It is d3 each but snaps.

Guys what do you think of the seekers and chariots formations? Too many fast units. That can charge turn 2. Exalted seeker chariots are 4 HP. And they have too many attacks. 11/11/10 is low armour but it's like having 4-5 rhinos. Warp storm manipulation and cursed earth or shrouded can be very good. For example 1x20 seekers and 5 exalted chariots are almost 700 pts.

 avedominusnox wrote:
Guys what do you think of the seekers and chariots formations? Too many fast units. That can charge turn 2. Exalted seeker chariots are 4 HP. And they have too many attacks. 11/11/10 is low armour but it's like having 4-5 rhinos. Warp storm manipulation and cursed earth or shrouded can be very good. For example 1x20 seekers and 5 exalted chariots are almost 700 pts.

I've always thought there chariots were pretty solid being that they are rhinos with daemons saves and very fast (plus 7ed chariot rules were very nice to them). I think the best use would be 6 base chariots and a herald chariot (which is like 310 total) whien inside the Daemon Incurion gives you a bunch so super cheap MSU to grab objectives with Daemon Corruption

So yeah the more I think about this release the more it's only worth the Tzeentch relics to me.

Nurgle's "always wound/glance" relic seems good but there's basically no one worth taking it on in a competitive setting. Assault Princes have fallen out of favor with the high amount of Ignores Cover/D/Stomp in the game.

Slaanesh gets the Agony Whip (if model takes a wound, it can't attack), which is possibly really good... but Slaanesh Princes were already pretty poor compared to Nurgle or Tzeentch. Maybe a Seeker Star with a Herald holding one of these can cheese an opponent... I wonder if it stops Stomp.

Khorne ones are kind of ok, I guess. The "sometimes D" weapon is kinda nice, but unreliable, why not just bring a D-Thirster?

No, Tzeentch gets Reserve shenanigans, auto-cast once per turn, and the Storm Shield (sorta) relic. Heck, even the Eternal Staff is pretty good - compare it to the Burning Brand from CSM, and it's one S higher but loses Torrent. Still super good for torching MEQs with while flying past, for only 20 points.

Tzeentch Flying Circus/Screamerstar got hecka buffed, especially Summoning ones. The new Change 4 power is another Summoning that we can use and Fatey always knows.

Shame about the rest.

I think it stops stomp as per BRB because stomp is an attack with the stomp rule. I can see that weapon get used heavily. With reroll wounds and hits with beguilement it can be pretty powerful. 1 wound is enough to stop a WK. powerful indeed. Seeker chariots at 40 pts are also powerful. 5 of them and 1 seeker blob. Perfect auxiliary choice. If the forgehost isn't good enough to compete for the spot.

Yeah, the Aux choices are actually not too bad. Beasts + Dronestar, Chariots + Seekers, Screamer MSU, all pretty good. If only the Core choices weren't total crap, that's really what makes the Detachment a pain to take.

Requizen wrote:
Yeah, the Aux choices are actually not too bad. Beasts + Dronestar, Chariots + Seekers, Screamer MSU, all pretty good. If only the Core choices weren't total crap, that's really what makes the Detachment a pain to take.

Beasts and drones and seeker/chariots are good. Screamers are crap I think. The basic are doable if you think either khorne and nurgle. Nurgle is cheap. Warp host might be good too.

I mean, min units of Screamers aren't amazing, but they could be a lot worse. T4 W2 with 5++/Jink rerolling 1s are actually pretty hard to take down even without deathstar buffs. They don't particularly kill a whole lot, but they can tie up a bunch and move around the table suuuuuper quickly, which is very MSU and disruptive.

Requizen wrote:
I mean, min units of Screamers aren't amazing, but they could be a lot worse. T4 W2 with 5++/Jink rerolling 1s are actually pretty hard to take down even without deathstar buffs. They don't particularly kill a whole lot, but they can tie up a bunch and move around the table suuuuuper quickly, which is very MSU and disruptive.

The Screamers got nerfed through the ground by the formation though, as their slash attacks now carry the Warpflame penalty...
Last thing you want tacked onto a tiny number of attacks against things like Wraitguard, Bikers of all flavours, multi-wound models, Necrons in general, etc... is to be handing out FnP and/or boosting an existing FnP save.

The only thing for Tzeentch in this release are the relics.

The psychic powers overall are 'meh', as we still lack any boost to WC harnessing, (yet Marines of all colours get it!). 7th itself has nerfed the way our Tzheralds support units due to the general Witchfire nerf.
Our 'Daemon of' rule is still half useless. Exalted Flamers weren't fixed either. (no Gifts, no Relentless = barely functional)

And our formations are an absolute joke! The Core one is just too costly to viably play in anything under 2k, or else you're forced to take nothing but Exalts, which are bad units by themselves. (yes, they get lots of S10 shots, but too bad they're forced to stay rooted to one spot all game to shoot effectively, and Warpflame of course.)
Maybe spamming min sized Flamer squads, but, you're still going to need an additional basic CAD for added Tzheralds anyways, since Tzeentch is so heavily reliant on WC's for the majority of his damage output, and/or to boost the otherwise purely average shooting.
The Auxiliary formation is a damn joke. It makes no sense at all that Screamers on their own suddenly make Warpflame based slash attacks, yet, GW in all it's infinite wisdom decided to beat an average unit over the head with the nerf bat for no real reason, other than, "Chaos = FUN!lol" (The Chariot, sure, but that was entirely unnecessary to give it to Screamers themselves!)



Slaanesh is looking like he/she/it made out like a damn bandit. That Auxiliary formation is crazy good! Only problem will be how the hell you safely transport 5 of those Exalted Chariots!

The basic Khorne formation with MSU Dog spam could potentially be onto something as well, and the Skullcannon formation is looking pretty decent as the Khannons do have range going for them.

Nurgle... meh, I don't care about Nurgle being a Tzeentch player, so don't care if he's crap! (besides, he enjoys wallowing in it anyways, so he's probably happy in the end! )

I don't think that the decurion supports mono God lists. You have to adapt. Fluffy doesn't mean competitive. Before this campaign I won several tournaments with daemons by spamming khorne/slaanesh lists. Kairos/seekers/brass scorpion. Seekers/hounds. Now I think that either I will carry on by focusing more on our powers and artifacts. Or the hard way through decurion and chariots. Chariot spam might be the way.

P.S. forget mono tzeentch.
Seriously wtf with our LoWs? The mega daemons can't be usable in normal games due to point tax %...

I really wanna see the warlord traits. Could be potential there if they make it god specific. Although it'll be random, and there will be no characters that come with one stock because they didn't change the codex at all.

although I can see something like this for tzeentch:

1- roll an additional d6 to determine the warp charge pool every psychic phase.
2- all friendly units gain +1 BS or relentless within 12" of the warlord. Controlling player chooses.
3- all units within 12" of warlord harness warp charge on a 3+
4- reduce opponent Toughness test rolls by 1 for warp flame tests.
5- all attacks have the soul blaze rule while the warlord is alive
6- choose a power the warlord knows. Reduce the WC cost of the chosen power to 1. Works once per phase.

If the tables are like that, we could see some minor redemption for the formations.

Only ones I see being able to be used in smaller (or normal games) are the Nurgle ones.
Tally can take 6 squads of 3 nurglings and one big group of bearers.
Infiltrate the nurglings and hide them so they can assault 2nd turn and not have to deal with supporting fire from Tau and you can take 6 single beasts of nurgle for the other..
Still though.. so much tax to play any of these, just seems silly.

Do we know anything about the deamon prince one?

avedominusnox wrote:I don't think that the decurion supports mono God lists. You have to adapt. Fluffy doesn't mean competitive. Before this campaign I won several tournaments with daemons by spamming khorne/slaanesh lists. Kairos/seekers/brass scorpion. Seekers/hounds. Now I think that either I will carry on by focusing more on our powers and artifacts. Or the hard way through decurion and chariots. Chariot spam might be the way.

P.S. forget mono tzeentch.
Seriously wtf with our LoWs? The mega daemons can't be usable in normal games due to point tax %...

The LoW Daemons are designed to be Apocalypse-only, which sucks. Even barring that, most tournaments have a point limit on LoWs so you couldn't take the expensive ones anyway.

Swara wrote:Only ones I see being able to be used in smaller (or normal games) are the Nurgle ones.
Tally can take 6 squads of 3 nurglings and one big group of bearers.
Infiltrate the nurglings and hide them so they can assault 2nd turn and not have to deal with supporting fire from Tau and you can take 6 single beasts of nurgle for the other..
Still though.. so much tax to play any of these, just seems silly.

Do we know anything about the deamon prince one?

4 Princes, one of each type. They get an extra bonus per each other Prince alive.
They get following accumulative benefits depending on how many models remain on the battlefield.
4 models: +1T
3 models: +1S
2 models: Reroll 1's to hit
1 model: No benefit

If your warlord is one of the DP, then all of them get the same warlord trait.

I think we know everything except the Soulgrinder formation and the exact wording on the various artifacts.

Can't wait to see those...could have a big impact.

The deamon prince one could be fun.. but still such a huge amount off points to get any benefit.

I think the Daemon Prince one will be useless, as not only is the model hideously overcosted and fragile, but the artifacts will probably be limited to 1 per model. If you could stack artifacts on to your 4 DPs, maybe you could do something useful.

 Virules wrote:
I think we know everything except the Soulgrinder formation and the exact wording on the various artifacts.

Can't wait to see those...could have a big impact.

Agreed, I am concerned that their maybe restrictions we're not aware of yet on the formations as some of the pages are cutoff.

I am curious why your would ever take the Masque as part of the basic Slaanesh formation.

 Sersi wrote:

I am curious why you would ever take the Masque.

If there are new, and good warlord traits for daemons, having 4 DPs at T6, S7 with the warlord trait could be awesome. No more ID from walkers will be nice. Each god seems to have a relic that will make them beasts. Tzeentch knowing all the spells, Khorne hitting on 2s, Nurgle always wounding/glancing? (never looked at the slaanesh ones...)

Can I use these formations in a Combined Arms Detachment? Or are these formations for Daemon Incursion only?

DarthFatticus wrote:
Can I use these formations in a Combined Arms Detachment? Or are these formations for Daemon Incursion only?

Any formation with a dataslate can be used in an army. So you can go CAD + Formation.

I guess its safe to say Daemons are getting a new Dex soon? I mean with all these formations they cant expect Daemon Players to HAVE to buy these special edition packages with SW rules.... Right =/

 GoliothOnline wrote:
I guess its safe to say Daemons are getting a new Dex soon? I mean with all these formations they cant expect Daemon Players to HAVE to buy these special edition packages with SW rules.... Right =/

It's what Tyranid players had to do with Shield of Baal.

I would say this release is more of a reason to think chaos isn't getting a codex soon, presumably all these formations were written with the current dex in mind, and releasing a new one would invalidate all the "work" they put in to this mini update.

Just as Shield of Baal was the "7e codex" for Nids and Kauyon/Mont'ka was the "7.5e codex" for Guard (and, to an extent, Raven Guard and White Scars), Daemons probably won't get a full codex any time soon, just this to sort of make up for it.

Which it doesn't really. Some Relics, Powers, and Traits alongside mediocre Formations doesn't change all that much. But, Daemons are placing highly in Tournaments and winning things, so it's kind of not an issue. But for people who don't like playing Star + Summoning + Fateweaver, I could see how they would have wanted more.

skarsol wrote:

 Sersi wrote:

I am curious why you would ever take the Masque.

That might summon somebody here to defend a terrible model. You've been warned.

I've spent most of the day trying to think of a way to use exalted flamers effectively.

I have none. They seem useless. Is there any way at all to give them relentless?

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
I've spent most of the day trying to think of a way to use exalted flamers effectively.

I have none. They seem useless. Is there any way at all to give them relentless?

Put them on their Chariot

The best suggestion I've seen so far has been to put a number of them in a Bastion or other building. It's a nice area denial tool, basically tears apart anything that gets close enough, but that's about it.

Should have done to them what Age of Sigmar did to Exalted Flamers.

They move at the same speed as regular Flamers and they shoot twice as much.

Warpflame hurts enemies on a further roll of 4, 5, 6. And heals an enemy model on a 1. That would have been a much better rule for Warpflame to be transferred here than what we currently have.