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Expanded from and using feedback from this thread: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/678610.page

I want to make a cheap and effective HQ + Troop minimum for my NSF. Within the unit I want 1 Hammer, 1 Psycannon, 1 Melta bomb, 1 Stave and 4 Halberds. But who gets what?

_____Option A____
Librarian has the Stave & Melta bomb
Justicar has a Halberd
1 Termie has Psycannon/Halberd
1 Termie has the Hammer
2 Termies have Halberds

Although Halberds are my personal preference, I feel this is the "general" approach that most would suggest.

_____Option B____
Librarian has the Hammer
Justicar has a Halberd & Melta bomb
1 Termie has Psycannon/Halberd
1 Termie has the Stave
2 Termies have Halberds

With this option the Hammer is on a 2W, WS5 model that has a 2+ LOS!. The Justicar can act as challenge protection to prevent the Libby getting called out. This is the option that appeals to me the most.

_____Option C____
Librarian has Hammer
Justicar has the Stave & Melta bomb
1 Termie has Psycannon/Halberd
3 Termies have Halberds

The only advantage in this option is having more "expendable" Termies, making it easier to hide the important models. The downside is the Justicar has no bite for challenges. It also loses more if one of the "important" models dies.

--So which option is best and why?

--

I would say put the stave on the libby. For that he actually grant a at least 4+ (3+ VS psyker who are Lvl 2 or lower like Flyrant, Zoanthrope, the Eldar Harlequin psyker, etc.) deny bubble of 12inch radius. Which would help not only his unit but also the most other high value units in your army (such as Dreadknight) fend off those nasty offensive psychic power like psychic sherik, or more deadly the Neurothrope Spirit Leech coupled with shadow in the warp, Nurgle plague wind (AP2 poison) or that Harlequin "mirror of sorrow" (not knowing the exact name, but the one who force you taking Ld test and suffer wounds).

I didn't think the Stave had to actually be on the Libby, just part of the unit. Adamantium Will is one of those USRs that say "if at least 1 model in the unit...."

Also, in my meta, offensive Psychic powers are almost non-existent outside of Psychic Shriek. There are too many ways that offensive spells are unreliable that no one brings them. The Stave is only there "just in case".

Option A

I usually run something similar:
Librarian with stave and melta bomb
Justicar with falchions and melta bomb
1x terminator with pyscannon and halberd/sword
2x hammers
1x halberd/sword

The libby does best with the Adamantium Will from the stave. It's such a strong 12" bubble of DtW that no one has even attempted it against that unit.
Since the justicar should never have the hammer, that leaves only halberd in your case.

Do you have points for melta bombs on both characters? Stave + Hammerhand can sometimes do good work as S8 In4 vs. MCs but against vehicles I like the possibility of getting that 'splodes! result.

I'm also going to lobby for falchions on the justicar here. Only because +1A will often get you an extra wound slightly more often than +1S. But I understand in this particular case you seem to be going for a theme so feel free to do whatever you want.

The other reason I prefer Halberds is that Hammerhand has failed me too many times. Automatic +1 str frees up more for Prescience or Force. There are also lots of T5 units, so when Hammerhand does work, I can wound on 2's

I only have points for another melta bomb if I drop the Combi-plasma from the Libby. Really I only have the MB in the unit due to extra points in the overall list. I have no intention of sending them after vehicles as I have my Eldar half of the list for that.. I just want some "Walker insurance" if I get charged because of a bad deep strike scatter.

Is it worth dropping the Combi-plasma for a MB on the Justicar too?

Maybe... ?

Personally I don't usually buy a ranged weapon for the libby. You don't have a lot of shooting out of that unit anyway. Whereas another mb gives you a little redundancy. Maybe a combi-melta would do almost the same thing at (short)range? Sometimes I wish I had modeled mine that way but its kinda minor.

I am definitely magnetizing the Libby, Justicar and 1 Termie so I can play around with it. I really don't see any reason that the Libby HAS to have the Stave. As long as a Stave is in the unit, the Libby gets all the benefits. But the Libby being WS5 makes those Hammer hits mean more. If the Libby has a Hammer, having a MB is pointless. The Justicar definitely needs a MB in any case. If my opponent has no Witchfires or Maledictions I can place the Stave Termie up front as an "I don't care" casualty.

Combi-plasma is a better match with the Psycannon, but I am not sure if it is necessary. I want the unit to be a distraction that takes away fire from the DK's and WraithKnight. they'll drop down hopefully turn 1, kill or severely maim a unit with the Psycannon/Plasma and then anchor some of the enemy units in that area of the board as my Windriders, WK and DK's do the real work.

Personally I would take a Hammer on the Libby and a Hammer on the Psycannon Terminator. Its easier to protect 1 model than it is to protect 2 models with important wargear. Rarely see precision shots in my meta so him getting picked out is rare. A hammer on a libby is 5 points which is a steal and rarely do I find that I need more psychic defense on a ML3 GK. If I was to take a stave I would put in on a standard Terminator as the rule is shared with the unit. As for regular weapons I personally like falchions as they synergize with hammerhand well but halberds or the default swords are fine as well. Against melee heavy armies (which is more common in my area thus why I take falcions) I would prefer to have the extra attacks but against more shooty foes your better off saving the points on the cheaper weapon options. Melta bombs aren't something I would usually take on my GK terminators as I rather have other units (allies with melta guns) handle vehicle killing and use hammerhand and force to murder MCs.

I use option A. The libby is not really a fighter. I usually don't accept challenges with him. Hes got an additional wound so I will accept a challage with him vs a weaker foe - a weaker foe is easily dispatched with a stave though - in fact the stave is best against them. The melta bomb goes on the libby because he is the last unit you will kill if possible. Also when it comes to the psycannon sometimes you are forced to place the psycannon out forward in order to be in range after a poor deep strike - you don't want to also risk your hammer in this case. That's why I run it that way.

Sometimes I don't even take the hammer.

Upon further consideration, I think I want to try out option D:
_________
Librarian has a Hammer
Justicar has a Halberd
1 Termie has Psycannon/Halberd
1 Termie has a Hammer
2 Termies have Halberds

I looked at my list and there are way more targets for Witchfires & Maledictions than my GK's (WraithKnight and Scatterbikes). If someone has to target the Termies, the game is going well for me anyway., making the Stave a bit unnecessary. SInce the Hammers are "automatic", I don't need to rely on powers to buff the unit, leaving more WC for my Farseer, who is a better caster anyway. Any extra dice can go to the unit once the Farseer is done.

I also think that a Hammer is better than a MB due to having the number of attack of the model, rather that always 1. Hammers also work against everything, not just MC's or vehicles. If I have the dice for Hammerhand, it becomes that much better. Although I would still put Prescience and sometimes Force ahead of Hammerhand in terms of priority.

Of course, all models are magnetized if I change my mind again.

--

 Galef wrote:
Upon further consideration, I think I want to try out option D:
_________
Librarian has a Hammer
Justicar has a Halberd
1 Termie has Psycannon/Halberd
1 Termie has a Hammer
2 Termies have Halberds

I looked at my list and there are way more targets for Witchfires & Maledictions than my GK's (WraithKnight and Scatterbikes). If someone has to target the Termies, the game is going well for me anyway., making the Stave a bit unnecessary. SInce the Hammers are "automatic", I don't need to rely on powers to buff the unit, leaving more WC for my Farseer, who is a better caster anyway. Any extra dice can go to the unit once the Farseer is done.

I also think that a Hammer is better than a MB due to having the number of attack of the model, rather that always 1. Hammers also work against everything, not just MC's or vehicles. If I have the dice for Hammerhand, it becomes that much better. Although I would still put Prescience and sometimes Force ahead of Hammerhand in terms of priority.

Of course, all models are magnetized if I change my mind again.

--

I thought you were dead set on bringing a melta bomb - I agree 100% that the hammer is a better choice. Me personally - I try to keep the squad even cheaper. I give them a psycannon and 5 halbred and keep the stave on the libby. Hammer hand for str 7 is enough to wreck most things and most everything has an invo anyways. The squad has a good chance kill a wraithknight in CC also if you activate force. I've done it many times. This unit is just a tax anyways to unlock dreadknights - it doesn't need to be able to kill an IK - it just needs to be a safe place to put your librarian and it does that rather well. With 2 hammers your chances against the IK go up drastically though - so that's the trade off.

I did want a MB as insurance, but if I am not taking a Stave, a Hammer is better insurance. Honestly, if HH was more garunteed, I wouldn't bother with Hammers either. As you said, this is a tax unit anyway. I don't even plan on putting ML3 on the Libby. I plan on just rolling Divination and casting Prescience on them for optimal shooting/CC combo.

 Galef wrote:
I did want a MB as insurance, but if I am not taking a Stave, a Hammer is better insurance. Honestly, if HH was more garunteed, I wouldn't bother with Hammers either. As you said, this is a tax unit anyway. I don't even plan on putting ML3 on the Libby. I plan on just rolling Divination and casting Prescience on them for optimal shooting/CC combo.

Have you considered a brother captain? He can take a psycannon and I think he can still roll divination - I could be wrong though. You could almost double the squads firepower for I think 40 more points. Just a thought.

I would LOVE to do that, but I don't have the points.

My list is:
Eldar CAD
Farseer on jetbike
4 Scatterbike
3 Scatterbikes
3 Scatterbikes
4 Shuricannon bikes
4 Shuricannon bikes

Crimson Hunter Exarch
WraithKnight with cannons & Scatterlaser

Libby & 5 Termies
2x DKs w/ PT, GS, H. Incinerators and Psycannons.

The only things I could drop would be the Exarch upgrade and the WK's Scatterlaser. But both of those things seem better than having an extra Psycannon and still wouldn't be enough points to upgrade the Libby to a Bro Capt.

--

Looks pretty solid. you are right though - with 18 jet-bikes another psycannon wouldn't make much of a difference anyways.