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So, with all the rage against Riptides and Ghostkeels and other Giant Mecha in the Tau army, it seems that perhaps a viable alternative might tone down the rage against these MC Badasses.

Well, actually this started out as a reminiscence about the bad old days of 2nd edition and skimmers, but then I realised that letting Eldar do it would just take the biscuit with Serpent Shields still being rageworthy.

The problem with the Hammerhead is that it's just too flimsy for too little damage output compared to the alternatives, yes?

So I thought, maybe Pop-Up Attacks were the way to go. What if we gave Hammerheads the following rule (for free);

Pop-up Attacks: One of the advantages of hovertanks is the ability to boost the anti-gravity plates to 'hop over' obstacles. Originally used by an intrepid Hammerhead pilot who earned his personal name of Starleaper for developing this technique, the Pop-up Attack uses the same principle without applying forward motion.

A Hammerhead Gunship that does not move in the Movement Phase, and is not parked under an overhanging obstacle, may elect to make a Pop-up Attack. When it does so, it may draw Line of Sight to anywhere on the board that does not have a roof over it, ignoring intervening terrain and models. However, when it does so, any model with the Interceptor rule that it can draw Line of Sight to make immediately make an Interceptor attack if it so chooses, as if the Hammerhead were deep striking within their line of sight.

an interesting concept and a logical one for sure but then everyone would complain and want it on there hover tanks and speeder cars next thin we know we have the land speeder vengeance spam being real popping up and blowing away every crisis suit in range

Give hammerhead twin linked rail gun, so its a reliable 1 shot gun. or the heavy rail gun (Str- D) and bump the points up to 135 or so.
we don't rubber ball tanks, they are skimmers, skimming the surface (perhaps a few meters over the ground).

Making all Rail weapons Ordinance, along with a drop in points for the Railhead, might do a lot.

It might sound bad at first (snapfiring your s5 secondary weapon, but (1), you probably shouldn't be shooting a Solid Shot at something that Pulse Carbines scare, and (2) Ordinance makes you much more likely to pen.

Between that, and/or my beleif that AP3/2/1 should be +1/+2/+3 on the Pen table, and Railheads would have a purpose.

As for pop-up, I still hear the hatred it garnered when CWE boats could do it. And, honestly, if any boats could, it'd be Eldar, not Tau (although Tau tech does seem to be a derivative of Eldar tech).

Bharring, does making vehicles even weaker with ap1 giving +3 on the chart (so 50-50 explodes in 1 shot) a game wide change you really want to make?
The pathfinder rail rifle doesn't need to be ordinance
Ordinance is probably a good medium, but at hammerhead price, we really have a good deal, with Ion-head considered. I cant see dropping its points ever.

I'm not 100% on that AP change, but I think so. Makes Melta and such as good as it was in 6E, while retaining the nerf AP4+ got in 7e. May be worth a separate thread.

The Pathfinder Rail Rifle is a weird beast. Its a huge anti-material rifle that noons would ever believe they could hip-fire. But it is Rapid Fire for some reason. Going to Ord would be weird, and certainly a nerf, although its already weak. It probably needs a tweak anyways, but it could be left unchanged for the purposes of this discussion.

Ideally, if Ionheads are fine and Railheads need a price cut, you'd cut the Hammerhead cost, and add the difference to the Ion weapon option.

How many points do you think a Railhead with Ordinance should be?

Make it Str D and be done. One shot anti-tank weapons that aren't D don't work in 7th ed. I should know. Melta is my anti-tank with BA and it sucks now. Tau could have just used HYMP and lol hped it out.

My thing is front armor 13, skimmer, cheap move through cover, moderately cheap d-pod, 3 hp bs 4 vehicle.. 125 pts base isn't terrible. while we lack "sponsons" our cannon is a las cannon++
if they made it ordinance, then it would force snap fire on the SMS (lets be honest, they are the best option, and free), because sometimes you use sub-munition shot as well.

If they borrowed the storm surge's stay still and fire 2ce rule, and made it ordinance, i'd pay 175 per.

if they just make it ordinance. then stay at 125 to me. it can help, and with longstrike, re-rolling ordinance, oh yes.

Ideally, only the Solid Shot would be Odd, of course.

Why ordinance? The ordinance rules suck. Yes, it ups your rate of pens, but who cares? It's still only a single pen.

Because a heavy cannon that fires a single, powerful round should only fire once per round.

And there is no "bad" result on the pen chart, and a 1/3rd chance of insta-kill/exploding is still respectable, and can be taken in 3rs to up the bs by 1 and share any necessary marker light support. so ordinance is a change that does make the 1 shot of a dedicated anti-tank killer more reliable, without taking it all the way to crazy broken op

Yeah, and it should use the D rules, not ordinance if you want it to not suck.

A single D shot is not OP when it's a vehicle that can be shaken or stunned. What's OP is TWO D shots in a jump GMC that can't be suppressed short of killing it.

Also, with the single shot ordinance it still sucks vs MCs, which it shouldn't given how huge the weapon is.

You want to see these on the table? I would go out and buy 3, if they had these updates

Make the tank 150pts minimum - give it Rear armor 11, allow embarked drones to use vehicle BS.

Make the solid shot Str D, AP1 at 0-36", Str 10 Ap1 Armorbane at 36"-72", Str9 AP2 at 72"+
Give Solid Shot a special rule - hypersonic penetration - No invunerable saves when FIRING UNDER THE D profile - including but not limited to - voidshields, ionic shields, eldar titan shields etc. saves may be made on hit roles of 6., Re-roll 1's on the D-table.
- this explains how longstrike 1 shots a titan
Make Sub shot Str6 / AP3 - Ignore Cover - price increase - 15pts

Change Ion Cannon
Ion Cannon (ovrchrg)
60" Str8 / AP2 - Heavy 2, Large Blast

Ion Cannon (std)
60" Str7 / AP3 - Heavy 4, Twin-linked

The tank you describe would be close to 175 or 180 points. the damage/range combos i like.
As a principle, there should not be re-rolls on the d table.

That ion cannon profile. not too shabby

and why use embarked drones, burst cannons or sms are free and are more efficient, and use the tanks bs already

That's fine for me. Better than Riptide spam. At least melta would matter, then.

If you add longstrike, sensor spines, disruption pod and submunition rounds - at my price points, the tank costs 230.
Hide yo land raider, hide you spartan, hide you knight and hide yo wraithknight

Naaris wrote:
If you add longstrike, sensor spines, disruption pod and submunition rounds - at my price points, the tank costs 230.
Hide yo land raider, hide you spartan, hide you knight and hide yo wraithknight

I don't use any models that are worthy or targeting with it, so I'm cool with it.

 pumaman1 wrote:
The tank you describe would be close to 175 or 180 points. and why give it D and armor bane? roll 2d6 on pen, a d hit is an auto-pen, 1d6 roll on special table. the rest of damage/range combos i like.
As a principle, there should not be re-rolls on the d table.

That ion cannon profile. not too shabby

and why use embarked drones, burst cannons or sms are free and are more efficient, and use the tanks bs already

I think 150pts is adequate. A wraith knight is equivalent to two tanks at 300pts. if you upgrade the knight he jumps gets two more guns that can be stronger than the SMS. if you upgraded 2 tanks, wit disrupt pods and sensor spines and my repriced sub rounds, the tanks come in at 370pts. More than a wraithknight and not as versatile.

I removed armorbane from D profile.

I'm not sure about the embarked drone thing. i usually always upgrade to SMS.

the reroll of 1s' on the dtable is really to prevent rolling a 1 and having the round do nothing. Perhaps the rule could be if you roll a 1 on the dtable it counts as 2. I wouldn't be so bold to suggest +1 to dtable roll results.

Costing as much as a land raider for the offensive power it brings might be considered by the tau-haters as ok

I think it's fair to remove the overcharge "gets hot" from the tank. The tank should have heavy duty cooling technology to keep this weapons from getting hot., It has the whole transport compartment to give up for that - unlike a riptide and other ion wielding units which needs to miniaturize everything and to fit into a compact frame.

Also i think it would look cool to have a doublebarrled ion gun for my suggested loadout, but streamline it more.

http://s5.photobucket.com/user/pullsyjr/media/Tau%202/QuadGun3_zpsb4d08dda.jpg.html

Naaris wrote:
I think it's fair to remove the overcharge "gets hot" from the tank. The tank should have heavy duty cooling technology to keep this weapons from getting hot., It has the whole transport compartment to give up for that - unlike a riptide and other ion wielding units which needs to miniaturize everything and to fit into a compact frame.

Also i think it would look cool to have a doublebarrled ion gun for my suggested loadout, but streamline it more.

Give the Hammerhead a piece of wargear that lets them reroll gets hot rolls. 1/36 chance to fail a gets hot is a very reasonable risk to overcharge the ion cannon.