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I know the conventional wisdom for Windriders is Scatterlasers!, Scatterlasers!, Scatterlasers! However, I really like the "feel" of the Shuricannon. Statistically both weapons cause the same # of would to MEQ's. The Scatter laser has the edge against hordes and light AV, while the Shuricannon has a higher potential, especially against high T, lower armour save models like MC's.

Due to the way I modeled my old bikes when they were 1-3, I was thinking about the advantages of doing 1:2 Scatters:Shuricannon. The unit can still be effective outside 24" and can move in a way that gets the Shuricannons in range to shoot first, then the Scatterlaser can fire without being hindered by lost casualties since its range is so much more than the shuricannons. This allows me to place the Scatter bike farther back than a Shuricannon bike could be.

The idea for this unit is to be able to shoot at targets far away on turn 1, but still have the Bladestorm potential mid-game. It can be a versatile unit designed specifically for a TAC list where I am not sure what targets I will be up against. This may also mitigate target priority. I usually field 2 untis of Shuricannon bikes and the rest all Scatters, but I can't always get the Shuricannons near their ideal target. And smart opponents tend to go straight for the Scatter bikes first

I should clarify that I would be fielding 4 units like this plus a 6 Windrider unit with all Scatterlasers for my Farseer to hide in. Any thoughts? Is this worth trying?

Versatility is one thing, but the speed of these things makes that less of a benefit.
I usually run 2 squads of 3x empty bikes (maybe with a SL on one per), and 3x shuri-can.
Even the cheap squads can bladestorm, but need to get close. They can run away afterwards, if their target survives.

But, if you have this many units of that size, maneuvering them slows them down.

I think I will try this out in some friendly games first, and if it isn't too much of a hassle, I'll use this in tourney games. Otherwise, all Scatters it is.

Scatter bikes are the Eldar MSU. I run multiple units of 3 (6 or even more) all armed with Scatter Lasers. They provide mobility and amazing firepower for a small amount of points. Your opponent if you maneuver them correctly has no way to get rid of them at once. Even better if he shoots at the bikes he is ignoring things like Wraithknights and if he shoots at Wraithknights he is usually ignoring the bikes.

Bottom line is don't mix weapons cause there is no need. Worst case scenario is to use Sh. Cannons although scatter lasers do all you need and more.

Eldar are such a fun list to play against .

Taking a single unit with the Shuriken Cannons won't hurt, but Scatter Lasers are literally SO GOOD that you shoot yourself in the leg not taking tons of them.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Taking a single unit with the Shuriken Cannons won't hurt, but Scatter Lasers are literally SO GOOD that you shoot yourself in the leg not taking tons of them.

The way I see it, the range is the only true advantage...which you wouldn't think would matter on a unit that is SOOOO fast. Not only are both guns "statistically" similar, but it has been my experience that Bladestorm can really make the difference, but I have been disappointed when my Shuricannon bikes weren't in range of their ideal targets. I am definetly running all Scatter lasers in my most competitive list (especially since I also run 2 GK DK's with heavy Psycannons in that list).

I was just wondering if 'friendly game' tactics can be made for using 1:2 mixed bikes. What do you think of this for a basic list:

Farseer on Skyrunner
6 Scatter Bikes
1 Scatter/2 Shuricannon bikes
1 Scatter/2 Shuricannon bikes
1 Scatter/2 Shuricannon bikes
1 Scatter/2 Shuricannon bikes
Crismson Hunter Exarch
WraithKngiht with cannons and 1 shoulder Scatterlaser.

After that I can add whatever units to fill points. The Farseer joins to big unit of Scatterbike to maximize Prescience/Guide on them and the WK. The other 4 bike units can fire the Scatters turn 1 while advancing up the flanks to get the Shuricannon in position. Not as devastating as an army with all Scatters, but can certainly lay down the pain if the enemy gets too close.

That "range" is a ridiculous advantage.

The jump from 24" to 36" is completely insane in practice.

Agreed. On paper it doesn't seem consequential, leading me to math-hammer both weapons about equally. However the extra range in practice just makes all the difference.

I am going to make all my lists with 2 options. A: all Scatter lasers for competitive or B: mixed as above for casual games.

In my more competitive lists I run 6x3 windrider guardians with Scatter Lasers as standard but I must say, regardless of the amount of wounds I'm pushing out, I've found myself wishing for some bladestorm hits...especially against TEQ in the open. In either case it would be interesting to experiment on a couple of lists that incorperate Shuriken Cannon Bikes

 Torus wrote:
In my more competitive lists I run 6x3 windrider guardians with Scatter Lasers as standard but I must say, regardless of the amount of wounds I'm pushing out, I've found myself wishing for some bladestorm hits...especially against TEQ in the open. In either case it would be interesting to experiment on a couple of lists that incorperate Shuriken Cannon Bikes

I do the same 6x3 but I greatly try to resist the urge to add Sh.Cannons at some of them but adding AP weapons to other components of the army. For example I give Starcannons to Wave serpants and falcons or run a couple of Hornets with pulse lasers.

It is always a joy to shoot at termies and tell him that he has to use the invu save cause the normal one will not cut it .

Missions dictated a lot on how I built my Windriders. Locally, I play a lot of missions using progressive scoring which can potentially put units at risk due to board positioning. (Progressive scoring is typically being able to hold an objective beginning on turn 2 and one scores points each turn). As a result, I did not like the concept of running min size squads with both the Scatterlaser and Shuriken Cannon.

But, I also found myself wishing for a bit more AP2 with small arms fire. By having Shuriken weapons, I can get the AP2 potential. It also forced me to push forward for better board control. I discovered if I had too much medium and long range shooting, I would box myself in and lose my maneuverability.

To keep points down a bit, I run the following

3 x 3 with Scatterlaser
3 x 3 with 2 t/l Catapults, 1 Shuriken Cannon each unit

The Cannon units push forward while the Scatterlasers hug the 36" range limit. This allows me a bit of flexibility without too much of a points expenditure. I still have a good number of points left to work with.

 Torus wrote:
In my more competitive lists I run 6x3 windrider guardians with Scatter Lasers as standard but I must say, regardless of the amount of wounds I'm pushing out, I've found myself wishing for some bladestorm hits...especially against TEQ in the open. In either case it would be interesting to experiment on a couple of lists that incorperate Shuriken Cannon Bikes

1st world problems. Take your S6 spam and scrub everything through its save like the Eldar gods intended. There's almost nothing in this game you can't kill with scatterlasers.

Keep the scatter bikes and support them with Hornets and/or warp spiders. No need to neuter your bikes.

DooDoo wrote:
No need to neuter your bikes.

Friends. Friends are why I need to neuter my bikes. I am one of the most knowledgeable/experienced/tactical players in my local group. I win a lot (and not just with my Eldar). The only reason I am considered as someone fun to play against is because I don't bring the most cut-throat builds in casual games. I also tend to point out strategies that help my opponent and make games fun for them even when they lose.

I am definitely "Scatter-biking it up" for tourneys/new amies I haven't faced/other cut-throat lists, but against familiar players/armies in casual games, I have confidence in my tactical abilities to put mixed units to work.

I was just hoping I wasn't the only one who was willing to try this or even may have some experience using units like this.

Well, if you are trying to be friendly, bring some Dire Avengers and forget bikes. Even a shuriken cannon bike would be the best troop in the game if not for the scatter bike.

Martel732 wrote:

1st world problems. Take your S6 spam and scrub everything through its save like the Eldar gods intended. There's almost nothing in this game you can't kill with scatterlasers.

My apologies, I did not mean to offend just wanted to share my feeling on the subject as the OP originally stated.


Galef, yes you are totally right in that regard and I do not support the max scat pack spam that happens all to often in casual games, at least against a semi competitive level it may be interesting to play around with the Shuriken Cannons and see how they fare against riptides and other hard targets...

 Galef wrote:

DooDoo wrote:
No need to neuter your bikes.

Friends. Friends are why I need to neuter my bikes. I am one of the most knowledgeable/experienced/tactical players in my local group. I win a lot (and not just with my Eldar). The only reason I am considered as someone fun to play against is because I don't bring the most cut-throat builds in casual games. I also tend to point out strategies that help my opponent and make games fun for them even when they lose.

I am definitely "Scatter-biking it up" for tourneys/new amies I haven't faced/other cut-throat lists, but against familiar players/armies in casual games, I have confidence in my tactical abilities to put mixed units to work.

I was just hoping I wasn't the only one who was willing to try this or even may have some experience using units like this.

Sorry I couldn't resist posting this

I've never seen that one before. That's beautiful.

The sobering moment when you realize that's what I started Eldar with...

Picks Eldar for first army... Loses all his friends

 Captain_Control wrote:
Picks Eldar for first army... Loses all his friends

Know the feeling all to well

When this image explains the current status of 40k in a nutshell

 Captain_Control wrote:


When this image explains the current status of 40k in a nutshell

Not really. Mostly because marines don't win that often; it's really easy to mess them up.

Marines win loads, the off shoots such as BA maybe not but when you have access to half the codexes in the game they do pretty well

 Galef wrote:

I was just wondering if 'friendly game' tactics can be made for using 1:2 mixed bikes. What do you think of this for a basic list:

Farseer on Skyrunner
6 Scatter Bikes
1 Scatter/2 Shuricannon bikes
1 Scatter/2 Shuricannon bikes
1 Scatter/2 Shuricannon bikes
1 Scatter/2 Shuricannon bikes
Crismson Hunter Exarch
WraithKngiht with cannons and 1 shoulder Scatterlaser.

Wait, let me understand this. You consider this "friendly"?

 Torus wrote:
Marines win loads, the off shoots such as BA maybe not but when you have access to half the codexes in the game they do pretty well

Codex access is not a valid argument. Orks can ally with Eldar in 7th.

So Marines bringing Marine codex units is like CWE bringing Ork units?

I could see some comparison between BAs bringing Vanilla units and CWE bringing DE, but Marines in general are the point under discussion, not BAs specifically.

When you can mix and match multiple characters form a plethora of different codexes to create Deathstars of any variety, when you can provide drop pod taxi service to any mean alpha strike unit then yes it becomes a very valid concern.

But Martel all we are going to do here is butt heads and take this thread more off topic (which I did start I know), can we just agree to disagree and raise a separate thread about it if we must?

No, the point is that the IoM is not one big codex. I shouldn't have to buy five books to field a list that's 4/5 as good as CWE. And "access" isn't an issue because unbound lets everyone ally with everyone.