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Hello everyone. Like the subject states Im wondering if i should buy some cataphractii if I already have 5 gravewarden and 3 deathshroud?

I know DG love their terminators but im wondering if I should just buy some more tac squad minis off ebay from BaC or just buy a BaC set even though I don't plan on using the two praetors or that poor looking contemptor?

in total is it worth me just buy say 3 10 man tacs for $20 each and a squad of 5 cataphractii for $25 or just the three tac squads?

well, with DG it's pretty good to have at least 2 full tac. squads just to have the option to bring the models. As for terminators, more is good. 8 terminators is not much in a 30k setting, even if 3 of those have 2 wounds. So really: It's up to you: some more tac squads, OR you can fill out a decently sized terminator wing.

Counts on the point limit your group likes to play at. In my area people only like to do 1250, so you wouldn't be able to take all the termies you already got after your core stuff. But if your getting into the larger point games were primarchs start to pop up, then sure get them.

As always, it depends entirely on what else is in the list.
Both Grave Wardens and Deathshroud have been buffed recently, so now is as good a time as any to play them.

Wardens were given stronger poisons in the new Legion book, to both their grenades and their smog clouds. They've been given a significant increase in damage output and were already on a good level before the buffs.
Deathshroud have been improved even more so, Their Scythes were given a huge improvement by simplifying the Sweep rule, to the point that they are arguably one of the best melee units going now. Even better than that, they've been given the ability to perform Sweeping Advances.

If you have the transportation to get them around, there's never been a better time to play them. A Spartan carrying some Deathshroud is going to destroy almost anything it touches, while Grave Wardens are now vicious all-rounder that can brutalise both infantry and light vehicles.
The new Rite of War isn't bad either, offering a decent boost to survival for your infantry.

Of course your power armour is still doing good work. But Cataphractii are going cheap right now and the rules are glowing, so if you have the capability to convert them I'd really consider it.

Mozzamanx wrote:
As always, it depends entirely on what else is in the list.
Both Grave Wardens and Deathshroud have been buffed recently, so now is as good a time as any to play them.

Wardens were given stronger poisons in the new Legion book, to both their grenades and their smog clouds. They've been given a significant increase in damage output and were already on a good level before the buffs.
Deathshroud have been improved even more so, Their Scythes were given a huge improvement by simplifying the Sweep rule, to the point that they are arguably one of the best melee units going now. Even better than that, they've been given the ability to perform Sweeping Advances.

If you have the transportation to get them around, there's never been a better time to play them. A Spartan carrying some Deathshroud is going to destroy almost anything it touches, while Grave Wardens are now vicious all-rounder that can brutalise both infantry and light vehicles.
The new Rite of War isn't bad either, offering a decent boost to survival for your infantry.

Of course your power armour is still doing good work. But Cataphractii are going cheap right now and the rules are glowing, so if you have the capability to convert them I'd really consider it.

I only heard that GWs got the ability to overwatch with their template, did Toxin get a buff too? I know their krak grenades aren't buffed by the new RoW (since that's only frag(side note: it's a cool RoW, but I still think the reaping is slightly better)) I think I agree with the DS though. Initiative 3 that on a good charge will have 4 attacks per model at AP: 2 is amazing. better yet is the fact that Morty got the buff as well (9 attacks on the charge FTW!)

Toxin has been changed to Poison(3+) which is almost doubling the damage output compared to the previous. It's a pretty hefty buff.

Mozzamanx wrote:
Toxin has been changed to Poison(3+) which is almost doubling the damage output compared to the previous. It's a pretty hefty buff.

I did not know that. is it still ap: 4 ignored cover, and the rest of the stat line? 'cause if so, I know DG were never a low tier legion, but I really like the buffs to them so far. nothing to OP, but still enough to make the specials a little more enticing/on the same level as the newer legions, and I hope they do this for some of the other 'first legions'.

where can I find these updated rules

also the rest of my army is as follows

2 20 man tac squad with apoths

1 medusa with phosphex

siege breaker

praetor in termi armour with 3 deathshroud body guard

10 man flamer support squad

1 lazer rapier battery

5 man grave warden

5 man destroyer group thinking about a moritat to go along

thats all I can think of atm

yekram10 wrote:
where can I find these updated rules

also the rest of my army is as follows

2 20 man tac squad with apoths

1 medusa with phosphex

siege breaker

praetor in termi armour with 3 deathshroud body guard

10 man flamer support squad

1 lazer rapier battery

5 man grave warden

5 man destroyer group thinking about a moritat to go along

thats all I can think of atm

the changes will be in the red books once they release. last weekend was a FW weekender, so there was lots of pictures. Were I you, I'd get some more death shroud, grave wardens, and terminators in general unless you already had a theme for your army that you were working towards. 2 more rapiers or medusas would be good options as well.

Brennonjw wrote:
I only heard that GWs got the ability to overwatch with their template, did Toxin get a buff too? I know their krak grenades aren't buffed by the new RoW (since that's only frag(side note: it's a cool RoW, but I still think the reaping is slightly better)) I think I agree with the DS though. Initiative 3 that on a good charge will have 4 attacks per model at AP: 2 is amazing. better yet is the fact that Morty got the buff as well (9 attacks on the charge FTW!)

Im pretty sure you can chose for them to go -1 Initiative for +1 Attack for more than one model in base contact with them. Also Mortarion also recieved the same 'Reaping Blow' for his Scythe, losing Unwieldy (Dorn received the same)

Brennonjw wrote:

Mozzamanx wrote:
Toxin has been changed to Poison(3+) which is almost doubling the damage output compared to the previous. It's a pretty hefty buff.

I did not know that. is it still ap: 4 ignored cover, and the rest of the stat line? 'cause if so, I know DG were never a low tier legion, but I really like the buffs to them so far. nothing to OP, but still enough to make the specials a little more enticing/on the same level as the newer legions, and I hope they do this for some of the other 'first legions'.

Pretty sure it is the rest of the the rules for their template and Grenade Launcher are the same.

The DG lose forcing the enemy to reroll successful wounds with Poison and Fleshbane, but gain a 4+ FNP verses them.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

Brennonjw wrote:
I only heard that GWs got the ability to overwatch with their template, did Toxin get a buff too? I know their krak grenades aren't buffed by the new RoW (since that's only frag(side note: it's a cool RoW, but I still think the reaping is slightly better)) I think I agree with the DS though. Initiative 3 that on a good charge will have 4 attacks per model at AP: 2 is amazing. better yet is the fact that Morty got the buff as well (9 attacks on the charge FTW!)

Im pretty sure you can chose for them to go -1 Initiative for +1 Attack for more than one model in base contact with them. Also Mortarion also recieved the same 'Reaping Blow' for his Scythe, losing Unwieldy (Dorn received the same)

Brennonjw wrote:

Mozzamanx wrote:
Toxin has been changed to Poison(3+) which is almost doubling the damage output compared to the previous. It's a pretty hefty buff.

I did not know that. is it still ap: 4 ignored cover, and the rest of the stat line? 'cause if so, I know DG were never a low tier legion, but I really like the buffs to them so far. nothing to OP, but still enough to make the specials a little more enticing/on the same level as the newer legions, and I hope they do this for some of the other 'first legions'.

Pretty sure it is the rest of the the rules for their template and Grenade Launcher are the same.

The DG lose forcing the enemy to reroll successful wounds with Poison and Fleshbane, but gain a 4+ FNP verses them.

Yup on the poison/fleshbane changes. Also, I did some digging: grave wardens DO have poison (3+) ignores cover, AP: 4 still (Yes!), and they CAN overwatch with the cloud's template. As for the scythes, I'm fairly certain it just swaps unwieldy and sweeping blow with "-1 Initiative, +1 attack when in base contact with enemy" for everyone with the scythe (Mortarion Including, making him much better in primarch dueling )

What I read said its like the old Sweep Attack, where you chose to use it.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
What I read said its like the old Sweep Attack, where you chose to use it.

I don't think you get to choose to use it. I'm fairly certain that you always fight at -1 initiative, but you get +1 attack when in base contact with an enemy.

so does that mean that all the flame weapons switching to Chem-munition lose shred and gets hot?

 Brennonjw wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
What I read said its like the old Sweep Attack, where you chose to use it.

I don't think you get to choose to use it. I'm fairly certain that you always fight at -1 initiative, but you get +1 attack when in base contact with an enemy.

Either way, I'll take the -1 Initiative over Unwieldy.

yekram10 wrote:
so does that mean that all the flame weapons switching to Chem-munition lose shred and gets hot?

No? Chem-munitions is still the same, why would it change?



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
What I read said its like the old Sweep Attack, where you chose to use it.

I don't think you get to choose to use it. I'm fairly certain that you always fight at -1 initiative, but you get +1 attack when in base contact with an enemy.

Either way, I'll take the -1 Initiative over Unwieldy.

Oh yes, now we can mulch other terminator squads with less retaliation!

I guess I'm just confused to where the FNP and all that comes into play now.

yekram10 wrote:
I guess I'm just confused to where the FNP and all that comes into play now.

Against poison weapons and fleshbane. So for example the Dark Angel's Heavy Bolter upgrade, you'd get a 4+ FNP against because it is poison based damage.