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 Sersi wrote:

SlyasR wrote:

Reavas wrote:
I've always wanted to run the masque of slannesh, she seems incredibly situational but considering nowadays us daemon players can take around 4 other seperate HQ units, her incredibly low cost and fun abilities (re-rolls on inv save and the 3 incredible dances anyone???) Means people might actually consider fielding her, after all making a unit unable to overwatch and reducing their ballistic skill to 1 is invaluble in alot of situations. The only reason I don't see her on the field is her 2 wounds, they really should allow her to join groups of daemonettes

In addition throwing in a Grimoire meams she can get 3+ re-rollable invunerability saves

I also like masque. I used to field her together with a keeper in the HQ slots but as you say it was hard to say no to heralds. I only play mono slaanesh when I play daemons. This is what Im thinking right now (I have all the models to field this already).

I like the list and Masque. But wouldn't she be better taken in a CAD, with 2 MSU Daemonette units. If you take her in the Flayertroupe, you're missing out on the Locus of Beguilement bubble effects on your daemonettes and fiends.

I'm not sure, if you compare the masque to a 75 point herald, assuming you would pack a loci of beguilement the masque will give you more bang for your buck, her debuffs are almost just as effective as the loci and thats not even including her awesome statline (not including those gakky woumds lol) only downside is she can't join units, which I wish they had changed but there is little love for her from the GW. She is also less prone to kaboomy large blasts which is nice. She is also better in for fiend based lists rather than daemonettes

Another good question is what fiend to daemonette ratio is best when forming the flayertroupe.

I played 2 games at the store today. One at 2k points and one at 1.2k. My list for 2k was:
2k:
Core:
Warpflame host:
Herald of Tzeentch:
PL3
Exalted Locus
Exalted Reward
3x(Pink Horrorsx11)
3xFlamers
3xExalted Flamers
Murder Horde:
Herald of khorne (no upgrades)
4xbloodlettersx10
bloodcrushers
3xhoundsx5
Command:
LoC
ML3
The Impossible Robe
2 greater gifts
1 lesser gift
Aux:
Furies

My opponent's list as far I remember:
30k list (thousand sons):
Lots of FW dreadnauts (4?) One big one in a droppod
big assault squad
big tactical squad
big terminator squad(10?)

Here are my thoughts:
The exalted flamers are insanely good. The turn they came in, every model with a 3+ save on the board died. Torrent str6ap3? Completely insane.

My LoC rolled +1 to invul on the warlord table and so had 2++ rerollable base. with cursed earth up, my horrors and flamers in the 9" and 12" bubble had a 3++ reroll 1s save, which is just crazy. One bolt of change killed 10 marines, imobed a dread, and killed another. str 10 psy powers were the norm.

The khorne/pink horrors/summons models filled the board up so much that the terminators had no place to come in safely and ended up mishaping. I placed them in the corner of the board and they effectively were worthless.

I had him tabled in 3 turns.

SixPointFive did you realize that the Exalted Flamer's guns are both Heavy weapons so snap fire if they move at all (which includes deep striking). You can't even fire their torrent flamer on the turn they come in from reserves.

Buddy has the book. You can indeed take a CAD and access the powers, traits ,and artifacts in this book.

It says something to the effect of: This book is designed to be used in conjunction with the chaos daemons codex, the rules here update, replace, or supplement the rules in your codex.

I'm assuming this means the formations are gtg also. Meaning I can take a Daemon CAD, with an "Infernal Tetrad" formation or even a "Daemon Lord" formation to just tac on an Extra HQ.

That is my bad. I thought that they were jet pack inf for some reason. They aren't even jump like flamers! Weird.

Budzerker wrote:
Buddy has the book. You can indeed take a CAD and access the powers, traits ,and artifacts in this book.

It says something to the effect of: This book is designed to be used in conjunction with the chaos daemons codex, the rules here update, replace, or supplement the rules in your codex.

I'm assuming this means the formations are gtg also. Meaning I can take a Daemon CAD, with an "Infernal Tetrad" formation or even a "Daemon Lord" formation to just tac on an Extra HQ.

Daemon Lord isn't a formation. Its just a command choice for the "decurion-style" detachment

 CrownAxe wrote:

Budzerker wrote:
Buddy has the book. You can indeed take a CAD and access the powers, traits ,and artifacts in this book.

It says something to the effect of: This book is designed to be used in conjunction with the chaos daemons codex, the rules here update, replace, or supplement the rules in your codex.

I'm assuming this means the formations are gtg also. Meaning I can take a Daemon CAD, with an "Infernal Tetrad" formation or even a "Daemon Lord" formation to just tac on an Extra HQ.

Daemon Lord isn't a formation. Its just a command choice for the "decurion-style" detachment

Ah well. At least we get access to all the other stuff though.

Does the restriction of up to half of the powers from god's discipline still apply? It was there only to prevent ML3 daemons from having all powers automatically, no that there are 7 powers in each discipline they function exactly as the disciplines in the rulebook. So do the new disciplines supersede the former discipline's restrictions and instead follow the rulebook's paragraph for generating psychic powers?

I think they don't, as these are different disciplines from the ones in the daemon book, which would replace the whole 2 pages about psychic powers in daemons codex, thus replacing the bit with restriction. and the reason why they didn't write a paragraph is because the 7th edition rulebook already has a paragraph on genetrating psychic powers, so they thought there is no need to write the same twice.

This is quite important, as the Unending Grimoire only functions if warlord generates all powers from tzeentch discipline. (it actually kind of confirms my thoughts, as they thought that its obvious and there is no need to explicitly delete that paragraph...)

RAW the new lores only update/replace the old lores, not the section where it talks about how Daemon Psykers generate their powers. As the lores have the same names the number of powers is still restricted by it RAW unless the supplement says otherwise.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
RAW the new lores only update/replace the old lores, not the section where it talks about how Daemon Psykers generate their powers. As the lores have the same names the number of powers is still restricted by it RAW unless the supplement says otherwise.

I can see your point, but wouldn't the old restriction only apply to the old lores (which were different form the 6th edition standard lores) and new lores would follow the exactly same named and more detailed paragraph in the 7th edition rulebook?

Another point is that the wording of grimoire doesnt make sense with the restriction, as it says that the psyker must generate all of his powerS (plural) from discipline of change which is never an option with that restriction. With that restriction you can only generate all powers when he is Mastery Level 1 and thus has only 1 power...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyway, i don't think this is a very big problem, as you could always agree with your group/opponent/club to use it RAI, like a lot of other rule debates... And on tournaments and such events you would need to ask their ruling on it beforehand...

I figured that I would write out what I think are the good options that we got from the Wulfen update. Anything I don’t mention I don’t think does anything useful or isn’t competitive.

Relics
Paradox: If you roll enough dice (2x-1 where x is the WC cost) you can guarantee a psychic power succeeds once every turn. That is amazing. This will generally save you 2 or so dice and no risk of failure. Very important if you need a critical summon to go off.

Endless Grimoire: With the Change Discipline getting a bunch of excellent powers taking this turns your Warlord into a psychic tool box with a power for any situation. The wording is murky though and its debatable whether you still can only generate ½ of your psyker level in daemon disciplines still but at the worst your Lvl 1 Herald is a tool box of doom.

Impossible Robe: Almost automatic invincible Lord of Change. Lord of Changes have always been excellent combat monster with S8 from staff of change and psychic buffs making it even better then Bloodthirsters (until D-thirsters anyway). But LoCs issue was unreliable survivability as it was completely dependent on greater rewards on psychic generation to give it the survivability to make it to combat. Now you can guarantee it has an excellent 3++ rerolling 1s invul save and all those greater rerolls and psychic powers serve to further buff a now tough MC. Especially the multiple ways to get +1 invul (rolling Cursed Earth, Tzeentch Warlord Trait, Fighter Ace, Warpstorm) giving a rerollable 2++ making it truly unkillable making its draw back (which only has a 1/6 chance of failing anyway) non-existent.

Grotti the Nurgling: -1 Toughness is good. Makes things take more damage, makes things more vulnerable to Instant Death. Hide in a Drone Deathstar for maximum results IMO.

Doomsday Bell: Army wide -1 LD is also excellent. Combos well with Psychic Shriek spam. I could easily see taking Be’lakor to also get Terrify for cumulative -2LD for Psychic Shriek. Shame it has to actually be on the battlefield but just hide him in the back

Crimson Crown: +1 A bubble to Khorne units. Excellent for Houndstar or an extra attack on a D-thirster

Armor of Scorn: -1 Strength to all attack against the Holder. Basically a pseudo +1 Toughness. Excellent on anything that can take it. Especially on a DP since it functionally makes him immune to Instant Death from S10. Adamantium Will is a nice perk too.

Psychic Powers
Change is the winner. Not only are all of its new powers really good (plus it had two solid powers before) but also Tzeentch has two ways to just get all the powers (Endless Grimoire and Fateweaver) thus bypassing the problem the other two have which is unreliably power generation. Both Nurgle and Slaanesh are better off rolling for BRB powers because they just can’t get enough rolls on their gods table to reliably get one of their good powers. Also Change really rounded out their toolbox aspect as each new power has a unique usefulness

Tzeentch’s Warpflare: Great against MSU and GEQ

Boon of Flame: Summoning is always good. Also summons a unit that can shot D3 lascannon shots or a ap3 torrent heavy flamer on the turn it arrives

Prsmatic Gaze: Strength D so now can go after Super Heavies (and FW can use it for Anti-Air too)

Warlord Traits
Tzeentch: Again the big winner. 5/6 of these are good. Except for the awful Soul Blaze one they are either increasing survivability (+1 Invul, -1 WS and BS at Walord, Ignoring first Perils each turn) or making you a better Psyker (manifesting on 3+, +1 to Mastery Level). I like the ignoring perils one a lot because if you really need a power to go off and are afraid of DtW you can just chuck a million dice at the power and not have to worry about exploding because of it

Slaanesh: They are all at least alright. Nothing here is as bad as rolling Soul Blaze. The real big one though is Celerity of Slaanesh as it lets you run and charge. That is amazing on a Slaanesh Herald on Steed. They already move 12” and have a d6+6” run with fleet. You move a minimum of 19” a turn putting you 5” away from your opponents deployment zone but you should easily move an extra 2-3 inches putting you right in front of your opponent for a practically guaranteed first turn charge. If you you a running a SeekerStar it is super worth rolling on the Slaanesh table just for the chance at a first turn charge

Detachments and Formations
Daemon Incursion (or Incurion as I like to call it): The bonuses are excellent. Daemonic Corruption is basically an alternate Objective Secured as your opponent has to score control of the objective for your daemons to not control it. This means they can’t simply shoot the daemon unit off it to remove control of it from you or you can quickly tag an objective on the way to your opponents. Combo Corruption with Objective Secured and the objective becomes completely un-contestable even to other ObSec unit (take that Eldar Jetbikes). Rerolling Instability really neutralizes the only drawback Daemon Instability had. And +1 or -1 to the Warpstorm is also amazing as it basically makes the Warpstorm have pretty much no negative effects (on a 4 you make it a 5, on a 3 you make it a 2, and 2 basically doesn’t do anything because you now reroll Instability tests). The only issue is that the formation choices are pretty unwieldy as they all have large unit requirements and limit Herald options. Luckily the Furies choice really mitigates the expensive Incurion is but you still have to take a Core Formation. Luckily there are some cheapish MSU formations to take if you really just want those bonuses (which are worth it)

Tallyhorde: This is the MSU formation for taking an Incurion. At its cheapest of 3x7 Nurglings and a Herald of Nurgle its only 360 points making it the cheapest Core formation (though you’ll probably throw in the Doomsday Bell for another 30pts because why not). It really gives the nurglings some excellent bonuses such as denying Overwatch and force units in CC with them to take a LD test or be at -1 Strength and Toughness (Doomsday Bell ftw). It makes the Nurglings great combo charge partners. Plus with Daemonic Corruption they are great an infiltrating onto objectives too. Honestly I don’t see this formation doing anything else because Plaguebearers and Nurglings aren’t threatening on their own they are too slow and don’t pack a punch. But with what it can do it's pretty good.

Warpflame Host: I feel like there is potential for this to be good. Its formation bonuses are real good especially when combed with an Exalted Locus for +2S to psychic shooting. This lets you turn your Herald do amazing shooting tactics. Put him on a disc and fly forward, shoot 4d6 autocannon strength shots (which you can autopass with Paradox) then turbo boost 24” behind a wall for Jump-Shoot-Jump tactics. That’s really strong. The problem is that 9 Tzeentch units you have to take. Each of the 3 choices just have some drawback that seems to hold the formation back. Pink Horrors seem like great choice with the +2S to their witchfires but in 7ed they just aren’t reliable (have to cast, have to not denied, you have a random number of shots and are still only BS3) and 9 units is overkill for a summoning battery. With Flamers you get a cheap jump unit with 3 Heavy Flamers and Deep Strike but there is only so many units they can threaten. Exalted Flamers have amazing shooting (d3 S10 ap2 or a Baleflamer) but their shortish range and inability to move and shoot really holds them back. Your best bet is probably a balance of them or just commiting to Exalted Flamers for being the cheapest and using them for an 18” zone of I will kill you if you go here.

Rotsworm: Is pretty competitive. It lets you take the Plague Drone Deathstar and if you pass a LD test (on LD8 because of Heralds) you get +3 attacks and rerollable charge basically doubling the units damage. The only real downside (because having to charge the closest unit if you fail the Ld test is not a downside) is the 6 of nurgle units you need to take but this can be paid with a 312 pts of 6x individual Beast of Nurgle who will proceed to use a pseudo LicterShame tactic of being an obnoxious MSU unit that sits on Objectives and eats a ton of shooting being T5 4W and Shrouded.

Grand Cavalcade: The ultimate in MSU tactics. 7 cheap as chips chariots for about 315 pts. Yes they are fragile but they can move 33” a turn with the additional 6” on flat out and have a bit of extra punch with an additional d6 S4 rending HoW. If you really need your chariots to kill something then you’ll need to ensure you kill it with the HoW because if you don’t your 1W rider is going to get punched out. But that’s not the main priority. You’re supposed to grab objectives with Corruption and make you opponent waste units dealing with such a cheap unit with an invul.

Forgehost: Their bonus is pretty solid. Getting rerolls to hit and to wound is always gravy and actually opens up Warp Gaze an a useable option (since a rerollable BS3 S10ap1 shot actually can hit stuff plus with the 3 autocannon shots from the harvester makes Soul Grinders solid at shooting other vehicles). It shouldn’t be hard to kill a single model either. Just take Phlegm or Vomit and you should be able to kill something. Ultimately the weight on this formation is being carried by how good Soul Grinders are and IMO I think they are great (they are very durable for the price, they do good damage in CC and have good gun options, they lack of speed is mitigated by Deep Strike or going Slaanesh) and AV13 makes them basically immune to the mass S6/S7 spam that is pretty popular for handling vehicle right now. But they are also super weak to Grav (as a single Immobilized result really neuters them). YMMV.

 CrownAxe wrote:


Warpflame Host: I feel like there is potential for this to be good. Its formation bonuses are real good especially when combed with an Exalted Locus for +2S to psychic shooting. This lets you turn your Herald do amazing shooting tactics. Put him on a disc and fly forward, shoot 4d6 autocannon strength shots (which you can autopass with Paradox) then turbo boost 24” behind a wall for Jump-Shoot-Jump tactics. That’s really strong. The problem is that 9 Tzeentch units you have to take. Each of the 3 choices just have some drawback that seems to hold the formation back. Pink Horrors seem like great choice with the +2S to their witchfires but in 7ed they just aren’t reliable (have to cast, have to not denied, you have a random number of shots and are still only BS3) and 9 units is overkill for a summoning battery. With Flamers you get a cheap jump unit with 3 Heavy Flamers and Deep Strike but there is only so many units they can threaten. Exalted Flamers have amazing shooting (d3 S10 ap2 or a Baleflamer) but their shortish range and inability to move and shoot really holds them back. Your best bet is probably a balance of them or just commiting to Exalted Flamers for being the cheapest and using them for an 18” zone of I will kill you if you go here.

I agree that those units have drawbacks, but i could live with those drawbacks, my biggest gripe with this formation is that i can't take more than 1 herald, (i don't understand why there isn't a herald formation like the necron royal court for example, as a command option. Hell they could have just said that a heralds of chaos option from the codex is an option for command part of the detachment... ) Basically if i want more tzeentch heralds i would need at least 2 more troops in CAD, which for me as a tzeentch player means at least 198 more points of pink horrors they would get obsec though, which is nice...

Another way i would consider using them is to take 3 of each unit and have instrument + banner in pink horror squads and then chain deepstrike them to get flamers into optimal burning positions and place exalted flamers in each pink horror squad to get more focus onto them instead of the flamers, or just go for deepstriking exalted flamers onto objectives.

I have seen another interesting tactic, but it only works if you have first turn or can steal the initiative, take ahriman (or huron) as warlord, and then infiltrate units with exalted flamers. Shoot ther D3 S10 shots at the enemy, as you infiltrated precisely 18" away... Quite interesting, but very situational...

It would be interesting to run a exalted flamer star: herald with grimoire of true names, unit of pink horrors and 8x exalted flamers deep striking on turn two (another herald having an oracle dais, which is insanely good if you think about it. It is 35 points, but it is a disc of tzeentch on top of the reserve manipulation, which means you autopass a reserve roll for 10 points! On top of that you pass the roll, which means that instrument of chaos still works, so you can automatically bring 2 units from reserve on turn 2). You would need to wait a turn to shoot everything, but they would be a very scary thing ina middle of the table. Also noone will want to assault the with 8D3 S5 AP3 shots on overwatch

As you already mentioned paradox+unending grimoire combo is insanely good, as it allows you to autopass D shot on 5 dice or summon a chariot each turn, which is actually really good, as chariots are very underestimated by a lot of people..

The infiltrate idea is actually really good, since the exalted flamer's attacks get the +1 str from the formation, making each one a miniature heldrake.

i feel like the plague drone star is my second fav but i have to stay loyal to my daemon princes, any tips on the tetrad?

hhhdan wrote:
Does the restriction of up to half of the powers from god's discipline still apply? It was there only to prevent ML3 daemons from having all powers automatically, no that there are 7 powers in each discipline they function exactly as the disciplines in the rulebook. So do the new disciplines supersede the former discipline's restrictions and instead follow the rulebook's paragraph for generating psychic powers?

I think they don't, as these are different disciplines from the ones in the daemon book, which would replace the whole 2 pages about psychic powers in daemons codex, thus replacing the bit with restriction. and the reason why they didn't write a paragraph is because the 7th edition rulebook already has a paragraph on genetrating psychic powers, so they thought there is no need to write the same twice.

This is quite important, as the Unending Grimoire only functions if warlord generates all powers from tzeentch discipline. (it actually kind of confirms my thoughts, as they thought that its obvious and there is no need to explicitly delete that paragraph...)

I'm really not sure about this one anymore but you might be right about the whole psychic powers section being replaced. The newer codexes don't seem to have details on how to generate powers and so you clearly then refer to the rulebook. I don't have the new book yet but it really depends on how they have prefaced the new psychic powers pages. If it says they replace or update them I'd say the half powers restriction thing no longer applies. If it says they are supplemental then its a bit more dubious but I don't see how they can be supplemental when the original powers are now incorporated in the new tables.

 Tonberry7 wrote:

hhhdan wrote:
Does the restriction of up to half of the powers from god's discipline still apply? It was there only to prevent ML3 daemons from having all powers automatically, no that there are 7 powers in each discipline they function exactly as the disciplines in the rulebook. So do the new disciplines supersede the former discipline's restrictions and instead follow the rulebook's paragraph for generating psychic powers?

I think they don't, as these are different disciplines from the ones in the daemon book, which would replace the whole 2 pages about psychic powers in daemons codex, thus replacing the bit with restriction. and the reason why they didn't write a paragraph is because the 7th edition rulebook already has a paragraph on genetrating psychic powers, so they thought there is no need to write the same twice.

This is quite important, as the Unending Grimoire only functions if warlord generates all powers from tzeentch discipline. (it actually kind of confirms my thoughts, as they thought that its obvious and there is no need to explicitly delete that paragraph...)

I'm really not sure about this one anymore but you might be right about the whole psychic powers section being replaced. The newer codexes don't seem to have details on how to generate powers and so you clearly then refer to the rulebook. I don't have the new book yet but it really depends on how they have prefaced the new psychic powers pages. If it says they replace or update them I'd say the half powers restriction thing no longer applies. If it says they are supplemental then its a bit more dubious but I don't see how they can be supplemental when the original powers are now incorporated in the new tables.

i will get my book tomorrow, but i've seen people say that it says something along the lines: the rules in this book add to, replace or supplement the rules found in codex:chaos daemons, so nothing clear again... *sigh* I guess that RAI it is quite clear that they would not have that restriction, as it was only there to prevent knowing the whole discipline. RAW just agree with the opponent to play it one way or another explaining to them the whole issue Or ask an event organiser about their ruling on it...

 Drasius wrote:

 -v10mega wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
The problem with pink horrors and witch fires is that they aren't self sufficient. To cast a WC1 flicker fire you need like 3 WCs to get a solid chance of passing it but 11 horrors only make 2 (and if they lose any horrors its only 1 WC). This means each horror squad that wants to shoot siphons another units WCs to cast their FF and then they are still only BS3 with a random number of shots. It just doesn't do enough for how many resources you through at it

ya but you can get the herald or the soul grinder formation and make them reroll to hit and wound, and the herald can provide much more warp charges. i made a list revolving around that i get something like 27 warp charges thats enough for anything, and all i have to use is the tzeentch discipline. honestly im just trying to find a good mono tzeentch army. right now its either screemer star, flying circus and pink horror gunline

It'd be a lot easier to just play Tau and spam missilesides and crisis with missile pods if all you want is a bunch of Str 7 AP 4.

The herald can give them [the horrors] prescience (but only 1 unit) and that eats even further into your warp charge. The soul grinder formation only hands out re-rolls for the soul grinders in the formation, not everything in your army..

True, but using daemons does have some advantage compared to Tau. First of all, they can't be forced to take leadership tests for losing 25% of the squad. Speaking of losing models, every model lost is detrimental to the firepower the Tau can put out. If you want to get rid of the 4D6 Str7 AP4 shots daemons put out, you have to remove the entire squad to the last model. Pink horror squad reduced to 1 model? No sweat, the firepower is still the same as a 20 man squad provided the Herald is still alive somewhere and the model is in range of the Locus bubble.

Reavas wrote:

 Sersi wrote:

SlyasR wrote:

Reavas wrote:
I've always wanted to run the masque of slannesh, she seems incredibly situational but considering nowadays us daemon players can take around 4 other seperate HQ units, her incredibly low cost and fun abilities (re-rolls on inv save and the 3 incredible dances anyone???) Means people might actually consider fielding her, after all making a unit unable to overwatch and reducing their ballistic skill to 1 is invaluble in alot of situations. The only reason I don't see her on the field is her 2 wounds, they really should allow her to join groups of daemonettes

In addition throwing in a Grimoire meams she can get 3+ re-rollable invunerability saves

I also like masque. I used to field her together with a keeper in the HQ slots but as you say it was hard to say no to heralds. I only play mono slaanesh when I play daemons. This is what Im thinking right now (I have all the models to field this already).

I like the list and Masque. But wouldn't she be better taken in a CAD, with 2 MSU Daemonette units. If you take her in the Flayertroupe, you're missing out on the Locus of Beguilement bubble effects on your daemonettes and fiends.

I'm not sure, if you compare the masque to a 75 point herald, assuming you would pack a loci of beguilement the masque will give you more bang for your buck, her debuffs are almost just as effective as the loci and thats not even including her awesome statline (not including those gakky woumds lol) only downside is she can't join units, which I wish they had changed but there is little love for her from the GW. She is also less prone to kaboomy large blasts which is nice. She is also better in for fiend based lists rather than daemonettes

Another good question is what fiend to daemonette ratio is best when forming the flayertroupe.

Masque has all the right powers. The problem is how to best use her. Fortunately she best employed in a Daemon Bomb, which also happens to be the best way to employ the Flayertroupe anyway. She drops in with off an icon preferable with Cursed Earth or Grimore support and casts Dace of Dreaming. Multi-charge or dual charge everything. If you have Chariots and Seekers attacking and scoring objectives 2nd or perhaps even first turn with the right warlord trait. Along with a mass drop of Daemonettes and MC's using icons and instruments right in the enemies face. Target priority issues may allow her to survive long enough to get a second turn of her powers off.

I still think the Beguilement herald is better in the Flaytroupe though. Because she can only effect a single unit and none of her powers actually help in the assault or follow combat turns. If I'm multi-charging I'm giving up my charge bonus. If I'm charging trough cover I'm at best striking simultaneously even with Fiend support. Over-watch isn't the issue cause the fiend units can eat that. Making those hits and rends is what matters so next turn of combat when I'm striking at I5 I finish them off and preserve the unit's strength. That's where beguilement wins out. You might even want to take some Rapturous standards to really make that first combat swing in your favor.

On the number of Fiends I'd say at lest 2-3 MSU squads, and at least 2 maxed out Daemonettes squads, 1-2 MSU Daemonettes squads held in reserve to deep strike onto obectives or countering enemy deep strikers.

 CrownAxe wrote:

Armor of Scorn: -1 Strength to all attack against the Holder. Basically a pseudo +1 Toughness. Excellent on anything that can take it. Especially on a DP since it functionally makes him immune to Instant Death from S10. Adamantium Will is a nice perk too.

On the Armour of Scorn, if you're not taking any of the other new relics on a Khorne Prince then this is an almost auto-take. It costs 20pts to take Warp-Forged Armour (ie a 3+ save) anyway, but for 10 more points you can get the Armour of Scorn and get a 3+ as well as the -1S to incoming attacks and Adamantium will.

Just realized something about using the Exalted Flamer as an Area Denial Tool: With the Incurion effect, you can touch an objective and then get the hell out with your troops. Meaning, that anything in range of the flamers has to worry about getting burninated if it tried to take the objective back, allowing you to focus on midfield objective control as your opponent tries to figure out how to get the objective out of the literal firing lane.

I'll be trying a 2000 pt list this next weekend against a buddy.
I'll be trying a mono nurgle list with Tallyband and Rotswarm and a Great Unclean one Warlord.
The new warlord trait gives the GUO even more survivability and I'm trying to figure out which new equipment to give him.

50 Plaguebearers (4 squads)
9 Nurglings (3 squads)
6 Beasts (all separate)
9 Drones (one star)
and GUO is about 1500 base so I have 500 pts to play with on upgrades.

Greetings all. As a mono-khorne daemons player, I find the khartoth bloodhunger blade intriguing.

I can't quite figure out what the weapon is designed to do. Is it a tarpitting device to take powerful enemy units off the board for a turn or two? Because it is very unlikely a model will actually be destroyed at the end of the game with the 4+ roll to return every turn, unless it's removed right near the end of the game. I guess you could get a wound on a Smashfether CM and delay it for a turn or two, but it just seems slightly odd. I'm trying to figure out what the designers were intending. It sort of feels like the return roll really should have been 6+ instead. If anything, it seems like it'd need to be on a DP to be effective. The strength boost is at least nice against vehicles.

I presume only enemy units that SURVIVE the unsaved wounds can return to play? Otherwise it seems pretty stupid. It's also not clear whether models removed from the board return as single-model units. Thanks for any thoughts.

Is the Dronestar even good anymore? It's true power was in tarpitting Deathstars with extreme prejudice while other stuff cleaned up the board, but in the world of SHVs and GCs that doesn't seem as useful.

 Swara wrote:
I'll be trying a 2000 pt list this next weekend against a buddy.
I'll be trying a mono nurgle list with Tallyband and Rotswarm and a Great Unclean one Warlord.
The new warlord trait gives the GUO even more survivability and I'm trying to figure out which new equipment to give him.

50 Plaguebearers (4 squads)
9 Nurglings (3 squads)
6 Beasts (all separate)
9 Drones (one star)
and GUO is about 1500 base so I have 500 pts to play with on upgrades.

You have to take two Heralds as part of those Formations, so that's around another 200-300 pts accounted for as well, depending on how you kit them out.

Other than that, I want to see how that works out for you. I wanted to take something similar, but with less Plague Bearers, and more Soul Grinders at 2,000pts.

ArikTaranis wrote:
Greetings all. As a mono-khorne daemons player, I find the khartoth bloodhunger blade intriguing.

I can't quite figure out what the weapon is designed to do. Is it a tarpitting device to take powerful enemy units off the board for a turn or two? Because it is very unlikely a model will actually be destroyed at the end of the game with the 4+ roll to return every turn, unless it's removed right near the end of the game. I guess you could get a wound on a Smashfether CM and delay it for a turn or two, but it just seems slightly odd. I'm trying to figure out what the designers were intending. It sort of feels like the return roll really should have been 6+ instead. If anything, it seems like it'd need to be on a DP to be effective. The strength boost is at least nice against vehicles.

I presume only enemy units that SURVIVE the unsaved wounds can return to play? Otherwise it seems pretty stupid. It's also not clear whether models removed from the board return as single-model units. Thanks for any thoughts.

I think its worded as any unsaved wound, it can get shunted into deepstrike. So, you nick a multiwound character with it, either rip it away from its unit, and/or force it to risk deepstrike mishaps. It's a weird item though, for sure.

A unit from the Daemonic Incursion formation with the Daemonic Corruption rule captures an objective but then stays on it. It seems in this situation that even if an enemy unit moves within 3" they can't contest the objective as the rule states the objective counts as controlled by the Daemons until the enemy cleanses it by controlling it. Obviously this wouldn't apply if the enemy unit was ObSec but does this seem correct? If so this makes the Daemonic Corruption rule more powerful than I first thought.

 Tonberry7 wrote:
A unit from the Daemonic Incursion formation with the Daemonic Corruption rule captures an objective but then stays on it. It seems in this situation that even if an enemy unit moves within 3" they can't contest the objective as the rule states the objective counts as controlled by the Daemons until the enemy cleanses it by controlling it. Obviously this wouldn't apply if the enemy unit was ObSec but does this seem correct? If so this makes the Daemonic Corruption rule more powerful than I first thought.

Yes that is correct. If you also happen to have placed your own ObSec unit on a corrupted objective then that objective is completely uncontestable even by other ObSec units

So If I kit a Herald out with the Doomsday Bell (-1 Leadership for all enemy units), I was thinking about how much better units of Plague Bearers will be as part of the Tallyban if enemy mele units are at -1 Toughness and Strength.

Standard MEQ units will fail the Leadership test almost 50% of the time, and when they fail, PB's will be wounding on 3+, and only take a wound back on 5+. Units that don't have ATSKNF or Fearless will be screwed, and have to take two Leadership tests at -1 LD at the start of combat (one for Enfeebling Nausea and one for Fear).

That seems pretty darn good. They won't be killing things quickly, but PB got a good bump in combat with that rule combined with that Artifact.

I am contemplating using the warpflame host for at least 6 exalted flamers deepstriking. How effective do you guys think this is? The enemy has 1 turn to deal with them before hell breaks loose. If they commit firepower to them, your other units are less harassed and odds are they are overkilling a 50 point model.

I really wish Heralds of Khorne could have taken the Skullcutter D weap.

ArikTaranis wrote:
Greetings all. As a mono-khorne daemons player, I find the khartoth bloodhunger blade intriguing.

I can't quite figure out what the weapon is designed to do. Is it a tarpitting device to take powerful enemy units off the board for a turn or two? Because it is very unlikely a model will actually be destroyed at the end of the game with the 4+ roll to return every turn, unless it's removed right near the end of the game. I guess you could get a wound on a Smashfether CM and delay it for a turn or two, but it just seems slightly odd. I'm trying to figure out what the designers were intending. It sort of feels like the return roll really should have been 6+ instead. If anything, it seems like it'd need to be on a DP to be effective. The strength boost is at least nice against vehicles.

I presume only enemy units that SURVIVE the unsaved wounds can return to play? Otherwise it seems pretty stupid. It's also not clear whether models removed from the board return as single-model units. Thanks for any thoughts.

You know, there's an interesting thing.
If you challenge an IC and wound him, he gets removed and put into DS. The rest of the wounds leak over into the unit.
The unit loses the high Ld often associated with ICs + the combat result is more in favour of the Daemons, resulting in more combats won.

Another use is removing buff bubbles (e.g. Psykers) from the board to reduce the opponents board control.