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The Bell Of The End Of The World is going to be very nasty. I'm looking at doing a Daemons of the Ruinstorm force for Horus Heresy, so leadership is an even bigger deal since very few armies have fearless - between a fear test with a Ld penalty and the defensive grenades' blind attack, there's a pretty damn good chance of enemies being stuck at WS1, which gives me the upper hand.

So I have a dilemma. I like the idea of some of these formations and their detachment rules are AWESOME. However, despite having over 3000pts of Deamons, I cannot field a SINGLE one of the formations.

I could maybe do the Infernal Tetrad if I demote all 4 of my Greater Daemons to be Princes instead. But since I play undivided lists, I don't have enough of any 1 daemon alignment to field any of the Basic Formations.

This is what I have that could fit the Basic formations:
Khorne: Jugger Herald, 24 Flesh Hounds, 10 Bloodletters
Slaanesh: 20 Daemonettes
Tzeentch: Disc Herald, 24 Pink Horrors
Nurgle: 6 Nurglings

As you can see, Khorne is the only option I even have half the units for the formation. SInce Nurgle is the cheapest, I would be willing to get the models to flesh out that formation, but is it worth it? Or should I just stick with a CAD and take advantage of the new relics and powers?

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^ i think you should use the tallyband and proxy some things for nurgle or you could do the same with the other formations, see what you like hopefully your local store is a bit more lenient than mine





Automatically Appended Next Post:
ok so i tried my list this is how it went:

my list:

tallyband:
herald with bell
7xnurglings

furies:
5xfuries

tetrad:
khorne, d axe, blade of blood, wings
tzeentch, impossible robes, ml3, wings, warlord
nurgle, balesword, ml3 , wings
slaanesh, double lash of dispair,ml3

d thirster

i played against triple riptide, double stormsurge and drone formation

ok so for warlord i got +1 invuln so everything here has a 4++, i deployed first and out of sight, i used all the tzeentch powers for the daemon prince of tzeentch, he got flickering, the d, and the small blast. nurgle got phsycic shriek, invis and iron arm. slaanesh got iron arm, cursed earth and summoning. we played the missions from lvo. we decided that he would win kill points and i would win malestorm

turn 1:
moved nurgle, tzeentch towards the marker drones, moved khorne DP and BT towards the riptides, slaanesh moved to cover. for psychic phase nurgle casted invis on d-thirster, and then psychic shrieked the drones managing to kill 5 out of the 16 drones. then flickering fire killed another 3. finally i casted iron arm on the slaanesh prince and then the d shot at the riptide, and the best thing happned, by pure luck i managed to take the thing out! slaanesh took a couple of shots at the marker drones and only killed one. with that he lost 9 marker drones and a riptide. The opponent planted anchors fired all of his marker drones at the tzeentch daemon prince then proceeded to melt the ever living sh*t out of my daemon prince, so he got warlord, the riptides brought down my khorne DP to one wound. malestorm 2-1 for daemons

turn 2:
all princes landed, all nurglings deepstruck at objs. phsychic phase, iron arm on nurgle prince and slaanesh prince, invis on BT, slaanesh cursed earth on the nurgle prince. slaanesh shot with the lashes at the marker drones and took them all out with a lucky 20 on 4d6. d-thirster charged the riptides, and fortunately he only took one wound from overwatch, since the riptides were a squad and there were only two of them i killed them both with 3 6s to wound. slaanesh prince charged stormsurge and did 3 wounds but then took 2 in return. in retaliation, stormsurge d-ed my nurgle and smashed my slaanesh prince without a single wound dealt. then the single storm surge shot at my khorne daemon prince and murdered it with 4d6 missles. malestorm 3-2 (i rolled pretty bad for malestorm)

turn3:
right now i have just the d-thirster and 7 nurglings, i moved my d-thirster as close as i could to the stormsurges but he failed the charge. storm surges d-ed the bloodthirster and then proceeded to take out the 4 nurglings in their objs. so with that i only had the nurgle herald and the 2 nurglings in my deployment so i decided to consiede.

kill points 4-8 tau
malestorm 3-5 tau

thats it. my opinions are that the tetrad formation is honestly not that good, i played as hard as i could, and i tried a different list where it was a tzeentch flying circus and i managed to table him in 4 turns, the d thirster and belkor combo is superior. khorne princes are garbage, nurgle are ok but are too slow, the only princes that did something was the tzeentch prince and the slaanesh prince, but the d-thirster was the only one that made his points back.

The Khrone & Nurgle ones are worth trying for sure, I just wish the formations weren't "Herald + 6-9 UNITs". I like the "sacred Number" idea, but I think they could have done something more like Daemonkin and allowed unit minimums to be the sacred number.

Like the Tzeentch Formation could have been:
1 Helard
9 Horrors
9 Flamers (or 3x3 Flamers)
9 Screamers (or 3x3 Screamers).

Oh well. I guess I'll have to paly around with a CAD for a while. I was already fielding a LoC as my Warlord, so that Impossibility Robe looks mighty appealing. So does the Skullreaver for a BloodThirster.

I really want to make a list with 1 of each Greater Deamon (2x CAD). Are there any stand out options for a KoS or GUO?

EDIT:
I just read that report. How the heck did he manage to kill a FLYING 2++ rerollable Tz Prince?????

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 Ebolatheripe wrote:

 Swara wrote:
I'll be trying a 2000 pt list this next weekend against a buddy.
I'll be trying a mono nurgle list with Tallyband and Rotswarm and a Great Unclean one Warlord.
The new warlord trait gives the GUO even more survivability and I'm trying to figure out which new equipment to give him.

50 Plaguebearers (4 squads)
9 Nurglings (3 squads)
6 Beasts (all separate)
9 Drones (one star)
and GUO is about 1500 base so I have 500 pts to play with on upgrades.

You have to take two Heralds as part of those Formations, so that's around another 200-300 pts accounted for as well, depending on how you kit them out.

Other than that, I want to see how that works out for you. I wanted to take something similar, but with less Plague Bearers, and more Soul Grinders at 2,000pts.

oops, you are right. I have the 45 base points in my 1500 estimate - so I'll just have to beef them up.
I think I would use more nurglings if I could, but I'm just using what I have.

 Galef wrote:
The Khrone & Nurgle ones are worth trying for sure, I just wish the formations weren't "Herald + 6-9 UNITs". I like the "sacred Number" idea, but I think they could have done something more like Daemonkin and allowed unit minimums to be the sacred number.

EDIT:
I just read that report. How the heck did he manage to kill a FLYING 2++ rerollable Tz Prince?????

---

they all landed, and he rolled a 6 so no invuln, and it was also markered


Automatically Appended Next Post:
^ sorry the prince did not land he was in the air but the marker drones made the storm surges fire at bs 3

Shame you didnt have much luck with the tetriad, I am really excited to try it but now I am a tad worried lol.

Looking at it though I believe the power of daemons will continue coming from using the CAD, too many of the formations pigeon hole you into one play style and the joy of daemons is being able to constantly switch things up without switching the list. Thankfully the new powers, WL traits, and artefacts can be used in a CAD cause my lord do they rock.

To give the formations a shot im thinking the slaanesh ones, a somewhat MSU spam of speed doesnt seem too bad, maybe apply the same idea in a CAD so I can span heralds aswell. Im excited to see slaanesh getting major love

how about the traditional daemon CAD lists? most had two heralds in the dronestar to begin with, and now you can drop your opponents leadership with the one that isn't carrying the locus, right? plus you can make a LoC that is pretty ridiculous in combat.
could any of the formations be made to work similarly to how the standby lists worked, but abuse the new bonuses?

Adding the drone and beasts formation might be good for a list that wanted a drone star list. And for anyone playing tzeentch heavy, their formation makes flamer bombs pretty dang good.

So Balesword, or Corruption for a GUO?

I can't seem to decide which will be better for him. Both are awesome, and have their strengths.

The Khorne Murderhorde says "1 herald of Khorne." Does this mean we can't use the 4 heralds per 1 choice of herald as per usual?

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
The Khorne Murderhorde says "1 herald of Khorne." Does this mean we can't use the 4 heralds per 1 choice of herald as per usual?

Formations don't use HQ slots which is what we have permission to put 4 heralds in

 Ebolatheripe wrote:
So Balesword, or Corruption for a GUO?

I can't seem to decide which will be better for him. Both are awesome, and have their strengths.

Don't need to choose when making a list, unless you're really strapped for points. Take Corruption and a Greater Reward. If you look at the opponent and feel you need ID over auto-wound, take the Balesword. If not, take another Reward.

Being flexible with Rewards and Powers is one of the biggest strengths of Daemons imo. Your lists become very close to TAC just by having the ability to swap around for weapons or roll on different tables/take primaris powers.

What book are these formations in? The new wolfen book?

Requizen wrote:

 Ebolatheripe wrote:
So Balesword, or Corruption for a GUO?

I can't seem to decide which will be better for him. Both are awesome, and have their strengths.

Don't need to choose when making a list, unless you're really strapped for points. Take Corruption and a Greater Reward. If you look at the opponent and feel you need ID over auto-wound, take the Balesword. If not, take another Reward.

Being flexible with Rewards and Powers is one of the biggest strengths of Daemons imo. Your lists become very close to TAC just by having the ability to swap around for weapons or roll on different tables/take primaris powers.

That seems like such a waste of points though. I can see the argument for flexibility when you're choosing an item from the same category, like Greater or Lesser Gifts. Roll for it, and take the default weapon if you don't like your roll, but these two weapons seem to be good for different targets. I would have rather had Corruption the last time I fought a Death Wing Knight army with all those single wound terminators, but the Balesword is awesome for killing multi wound non GMC's.

Admittedly, I haven't been playing Daemons that long, so maybe I need to change that perception if that's the consensus way to pick upgrades.

 zachwho wrote:
What book are these formations in? The new wolfen book?

The new book has new formations, spells, weapons and warlord traits

Don't need to choose when making a list, unless you're really strapped for points. Take Corruption and a Greater Reward. If you look at the opponent and feel you need ID over auto-wound, take the Balesword. If not, take another Reward.

Being flexible with Rewards and Powers is one of the biggest strengths of Daemons imo. Your lists become very close to TAC just by having the ability to swap around for weapons or roll on different tables/take primaris powers.

This. Between Psychic Powers, Rewards, and Warlord Traits, a Daemon army can drastically change in capabilities between games. The ability to - as noted above - take a Daemon Prince of Slaanesh and go "you know what, I think I'm gonna play dogfighter" and take a pair of Lashes and pretend he's a winged hive tryant one game, then turtle up behind two defensive rewards the next game is very useful.

The biggest bonus is the fact that the Hellforged Artefacts don't take up gift allowances. Therefore I can take a Great Unclean One and roll both and keep both as toughness boosting gitts and only take a magic weapon if you feel you need the extra attack & reroll to hit.

The Impossible Robes are amazing. Combined with the inevitable kung-fu stick of exploding people, it makes the Lord Of Change an incredibly dangerous melee opponent.

locarno24 wrote:

Don't need to choose when making a list, unless you're really strapped for points. Take Corruption and a Greater Reward. If you look at the opponent and feel you need ID over auto-wound, take the Balesword. If not, take another Reward.

Being flexible with Rewards and Powers is one of the biggest strengths of Daemons imo. Your lists become very close to TAC just by having the ability to swap around for weapons or roll on different tables/take primaris powers.

This. Between Psychic Powers, Rewards, and Warlord Traits, a Daemon army can drastically change in capabilities between games. The ability to - as noted above - take a Daemon Prince of Slaanesh and go "you know what, I think I'm gonna play dogfighter" and take a pair of Lashes and pretend he's a winged hive tryant one game, then turtle up behind two defensive rewards the next game is very useful.

The biggest bonus is the fact that the Hellforged Artefacts don't take up gift allowances. Therefore I can take a Great Unclean One and roll both and keep both as toughness boosting gitts and only take a magic weapon if you feel you need the extra attack & reroll to hit.

The Impossible Robes are amazing. Combined with the inevitable kung-fu stick of exploding people, it makes the Lord Of Change an incredibly dangerous melee opponent.

Agreed here, except that you can't take double lashes

Slannesh soulstealer turns any keeper of secrets into an unstappable killing machine

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Tonberry7 wrote:
A unit from the Daemonic Incursion formation with the Daemonic Corruption rule captures an objective but then stays on it. It seems in this situation that even if an enemy unit moves within 3" they can't contest the objective as the rule states the objective counts as controlled by the Daemons until the enemy cleanses it by controlling it. Obviously this wouldn't apply if the enemy unit was ObSec but does this seem correct? If so this makes the Daemonic Corruption rule more powerful than I first thought.

Yes that is correct. If you also happen to have placed your own ObSec unit on a corrupted objective then that objective is completely uncontestable even by other ObSec units

How would this work? sorry can you explain it to me because I have a friend that says that it does not work.

Error404filenotfound wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Tonberry7 wrote:
A unit from the Daemonic Incursion formation with the Daemonic Corruption rule captures an objective but then stays on it. It seems in this situation that even if an enemy unit moves within 3" they can't contest the objective as the rule states the objective counts as controlled by the Daemons until the enemy cleanses it by controlling it. Obviously this wouldn't apply if the enemy unit was ObSec but does this seem correct? If so this makes the Daemonic Corruption rule more powerful than I first thought.

Yes that is correct. If you also happen to have placed your own ObSec unit on a corrupted objective then that objective is completely uncontestable even by other ObSec units

How would this work? sorry can you explain it to me because I have a friend that says that it does not work.

Claim an objective with a Daemonic Corruption unit then move an Ob Sec unit onto it to babysit it. Normally if an enemy obsec unit moved into range the objective would be contested, but because it has been corrupted it remains controlled by the Daemons until an enemy unit controls it. Because you now have an obsec unit there the only way for the enemy to take it out of Daemon control is to wipe out that unit whilst themselves being in range of it. Or at least kill enough so that the remainder are out of range of the objective.

When an HQ slot is available and you want to take a FMC, what do you think of the choice between a Prince or a LoC?

Prince gets:
-3+ armor
-Ability to roll on Bio/Telepathy
-Higher WS/Initiative

LoC gets:
-Lower point cost
-Higher Toughness and Wounds

WS/Initiative hit doesn't matter that much since 6s in both is generally higher than most things other than Daemon Princes. Toughness is a big deal since it means no more S10 ID, and the extra Wound helps as well.

Losing 3+ can be a big hit against small arms fire, but it can be made up quite easily. Grimoire is an obvious jump, but you can also do things like throw Shrouding on him for a 2+ Jink rerolling, or take Impossible Cloak for 3++ (bump to 2++ with Cursed Earth or Warp Storm) rerolling. The Cloak downside isn't so big considering how hard it will be to fail a save, LD9 only having a 1/6 chance of failing, and a possible Fatey reroll on the LD test if it does fail.

Losing Bio/Telepathy is kind of big, but let's be honest he's probably rolling on Malefic anyway and Div is pretty good as a secondary choice as-is.

Compared to a Tzeentch Prince, I think it's a reasonable alternative. Of course, there's always reasons to take a Nurgle prince over him (Balesword and Corruption are quite good), but I think even then it's a consideration to make. What do you think? Do you always go for the Prince or do you consider the LoC when list building?

I always go LoC over a Prince. The extra survivability is amazing, and that was before the option of Impossibility robes. I even prefer a LoC over Fatey (Blasphemy, I know).

I always field Belakor and my favorite tactic to fly him up, jump the LoC up. both behind a large Hound unit. I cast Shrouding, then Invis on the Hounds. My 2 units of Screamers turboboost in range of Belakor for the Shrouding.

Now I have 2 FMCs with 2+ jink, one of which re-rolls that and is place to charge next turn, 2 screamer units with 2+ re-rolling jinks and an Invisible Hound unit that has Shroud for those stray Blast markers that drift their way.

Bonus points if I manage to get both of my Grinders in cover and in that ball of Doom

Unless I am missing something it is now possible to have a DP with mark of khorne in a tetrad, roll on the tzeenetch warlord table and give it a mastery level and make it a psyker

gg gw.

gg


I like that they are trying to make the slaaneshi chariots work, but their problem is the av 11 open toppped and no weapon, if they suffer an immobilized result they are useless. If they suffer a weapon destroyed result, because they have no weapon they are now immobilized and useless. Being open topped you get +1 on the chart so most of the time they get penned by any shot they are either destroyed or sitting immobilized. This of course is a problem with a lot of vehicles....but given this one has no weapons its pretty bad. The burning chariot for tzeenetch is not as bad since you can still shoot off psychic powers or exalted flamer shots.

One of the interesting things the large # of units you can take for the formations/core choices is MSU. Can pull out a lot of MSU under things like ITC/ETC which limit how many detachments/formations you can take with the new daemon detachment.

Well, chariots can't get immobilised, they automatically downgrade it to stunned, which just makes them useless for 1 turn as opposed to the rest of the game, but still quite bad.

The good part about slashes have chariots is that they are so cheap, much like ironstrider dragoons from skitarii.

Regarding the burning skyhost:

Folks are talking about how cool the exalted flamers could be if they had a kind of relentless. Doesn't sticking them on the chariot give them amazing mobility without compromising their firepower? So for a majority of your army you take a unit of screamers with book herald, a bunch of sky chariots and a cheap core with a lord of change. The points probably are iffy, but jink and a 5+ invuln aren't bad in terms of defense. You still lose out on the +1S though, right? That's a bummer.

Ether wrote:
Regarding the burning skyhost:

Folks are talking about how cool the exalted flamers could be if they had a kind of relentless. Doesn't sticking them on the chariot give them amazing mobility without compromising their firepower? So for a majority of your army you take a unit of screamers with book herald, a bunch of sky chariots and a cheap core with a lord of change. The points probably are iffy, but jink and a 5+ invuln aren't bad in terms of defense. You still lose out on the +1S though, right? That's a bummer.

Well you would still need a core formation, as the skyhost is auxiliary... even if it was core (which would be great) it is still very expensive, as if you want to take 1 big screamer squad (up to 225 points) nd the rest with chariots (so 800 points) plus a herald, it comes down to 1100-1200 points. and you cant take LOC unless you take a core formation which at the smalest is ~400 points for nurglings.

I am tempted to try running 1 big squad of screamers and the rest in 3-screamer squads plus a herald with a locus of change (maybe a couple of chariots not to have too many screamers), as it would set the strength of each unit at the start of the turn (different for each unit), it would dictate if said unit charges or slash attacks this turn, probably not competitive, but hilarious and awesome to see a see of skyrays just flying about


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ether wrote:
Regarding the burning skyhost:

Folks are talking about how cool the exalted flamers could be if they had a kind of relentless. Doesn't sticking them on the chariot give them amazing mobility without compromising their firepower? So for a majority of your army you take a unit of screamers with book herald, a bunch of sky chariots and a cheap core with a lord of change. The points probably are iffy, but jink and a 5+ invuln aren't bad in terms of defense. You still lose out on the +1S though, right? That's a bummer.

reason why exalted flamers would be great if they had relentless is firstly because they are independent characters, so can hide in a unit and be more survivable than the AV10 chariot, secondly because they are smaller than the chariot, so can be deepstruck easier and hidden easier. Thirdly they are less expensive (half the cost). Dont get me wrong i love using burning chariots, especially when my opponents try to kill it with small arms fire like bolters and stuff like that, i had a chariot with 1HP and 1 wound remaining on a rider several times and it is hilarious but if the exalted flamer would have relentless i would use him so much more and probably more than the chariot even if he was like 60-65 points instead of 50...

 Galef wrote:
I always go LoC over a Prince. The extra survivability is amazing, and that was before the option of Impossibility robes. I even prefer a LoC over Fatey (Blasphemy, I know).

I always field Belakor and my favorite tactic to fly him up, jump the LoC up. both behind a large Hound unit. I cast Shrouding, then Invis on the Hounds. My 2 units of Screamers turboboost in range of Belakor for the Shrouding.

Now I have 2 FMCs with 2+ jink, one of which re-rolls that and is place to charge next turn, 2 screamer units with 2+ re-rolling jinks and an Invisible Hound unit that has Shroud for those stray Blast markers that drift their way.

Bonus points if I manage to get both of my Grinders in cover and in that ball of Doom

How are you giving more than 1 unit shrouding with Belakor?

Edit: Wait, I was thinking he has shrouding. I forgot that the Shrouding pskyer power is a 6" bubble. He does have shrouding naturally, am I right? I was mixing up both rules

Saythings wrote:

 Galef wrote:
I always go LoC over a Prince. The extra survivability is amazing, and that was before the option of Impossibility robes. I even prefer a LoC over Fatey (Blasphemy, I know).

I always field Belakor and my favorite tactic to fly him up, jump the LoC up. both behind a large Hound unit. I cast Shrouding, then Invis on the Hounds. My 2 units of Screamers turboboost in range of Belakor for the Shrouding.

Now I have 2 FMCs with 2+ jink, one of which re-rolls that and is place to charge next turn, 2 screamer units with 2+ re-rolling jinks and an Invisible Hound unit that has Shroud for those stray Blast markers that drift their way.

Bonus points if I manage to get both of my Grinders in cover and in that ball of Doom

How are you giving more than 1 unit shrouding with Belakor?

Edit: Wait, I was thinking he has shrouding. I forgot that the Shrouding pskyer power is a 6" bubble. He does have shrouding naturally, am I right? I was mixing up both rules

He has Shrouded, he can cast Shrouding

Requizen wrote:

Saythings wrote:

 Galef wrote:
I always go LoC over a Prince. The extra survivability is amazing, and that was before the option of Impossibility robes. I even prefer a LoC over Fatey (Blasphemy, I know).

I always field Belakor and my favorite tactic to fly him up, jump the LoC up. both behind a large Hound unit. I cast Shrouding, then Invis on the Hounds. My 2 units of Screamers turboboost in range of Belakor for the Shrouding.

Now I have 2 FMCs with 2+ jink, one of which re-rolls that and is place to charge next turn, 2 screamer units with 2+ re-rolling jinks and an Invisible Hound unit that has Shroud for those stray Blast markers that drift their way.

Bonus points if I manage to get both of my Grinders in cover and in that ball of Doom

How are you giving more than 1 unit shrouding with Belakor?

Edit: Wait, I was thinking he has shrouding. I forgot that the Shrouding pskyer power is a 6" bubble. He does have shrouding naturally, am I right? I was mixing up both rules

He has Shrouded, he can cast Shrouding

What is awesome is that since the power is a bubble that is measured from Belakor, I can cast it when no other unit is near him, then turbo-boost or run into range. I have tricked more than 1 player with this:

Me: "I am casting Shrouding on Belakor. He is the only model in range"
My opponent: "Go for it, I'm not even gonna deny it. Gotta save dice for Invis"
---the rest of my Psychic Phase, hopefully Invis also goes off and isn't denied-------
Me: "Ok now for my shooting phase, both units of Screamers will turboboost into range of Belakor, my Hounds will run, leaving 1-2 Hound in range and the rest in terrain. LoC will also run toward Belakor. Now over half my army has a 2+ jink (most re-rollable) or a 3+ or 2+ terrain save, is flying or Invisible"
My opponent: "WHAT!?!?!?!"

Admittedly, It only works once on the same person. After that I have to roll SOOOO many dice to make sure it goes off. The good news is that now my opponents have to make a tough choice to deny Shrouding or Invis.

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