Why not Praetorians?

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**Budzerker**

I always see Lychguard, Wraiths and Wraithstars but no Praetorians.

Why is that? They seem to be a good unit. And are faster than Lyches. Why not make a star out of them? Or run them in general?

**CrownAxe**

2 words. 3++ Invul

**Scarey Nerd**

Pretty much. The only use of Triarch Praetorians I can think of off the top of my head is if you're aiming to take down terminators or equivalent, since a Rod of Covenant is AP2, but considering Terminators have a 5++ then it's still not hugely reliable. They're definitely faster than Lychguard, which is the main drawback of running Lychguard without a Night Scythe, but realistically you'd be better spending the points on a NS and Lychguard unit to get them where they need to be as soon as possible, instead of jumping your TPs across the board and hoping the enemy doesn't shoot them out of the sky, since when they reach their target they're getting 3 attacks each at best.

If you need to fill an elite slot, use Lychguard and Night Scythe over Triarch Praetorians. If you need a high damage unit in general, use Wraiths with whip coils (unless you're fighting a fast army like Dark Eldar). 3++ inv save, S6, T5, W2, I5, rending, what's not to love?

**Voidwraith**

Considering the guy who placed 7th in LVO had two 6 man groups of Praetorians (one with Rods, the other with Voidblades and Particle casters), I'd say they can perform if given the chance.

The same guy also ran an Obelisk and a Monolith. Basically, list should be titled "Play what you think will work, ignore the internet." Actually, now that I've mentioned it, I believe his list was entitled "Wraithless Necrons" (as he played no Wraiths) so I guess there was a hint of that attitude to his title.

**Slayer-Fan123**

The issue is that they're fine, but you actually have to spend more points on them compared to Wraiths. The minimum Judicator IS 405 points.

**FL5**

Lychguard can be purchased from within the reclamation legion, so no extra formation tax if already taking a decurion, and they also benefit from the extra re-roll 1's on RP's for being within 12" of the reclamation legion's overlord, which is an easy bonus when they're in the same unit.

Plus, lychguard don't require taking a stalker. Honestly, I love my praetorians. They're fantastic. But my stalker has earned the nickname "First Blood" for a reason.

If taking a CAD, though, then sure, take some praetorians and voidblade some faces in.

**King Pariah**

They're not a bad option at all, as far as melee goes, they're fairly decent thanks to their FNP, I mean RP, giving them a boost to their durability. However, with units like Wraiths available (especially in their current manifestation) Praetorians usually end up taking a back seat to other elite options since wraiths can do the same job but possibly better while being a fast attack choice.

**Slayer-Fan123**

You'll also have some people try to argue that they don't get to use their Rods in melee if they shot with them. Those people are actually trying to cheat, but I'm pointing out that it can become a headache.
If Stalkers were cheaper (I'm talking like 15-25 cheaper), they'd be less of a tax and suddenly the Judicator looks more appealing. With their speed the formation is basically "point at an enemy unit with your Stalker and your Praetorians will MURDER it".

I have a single list using a Judicator, 4 squads of Deathmarks, Warriors with Ghost Arks, and then x2 5 Tomb Blades. Nemesor hangs with some Scythe Guard and advances whilst I throw the Immortals behind the Stalker so that the rear armor is less an issue. It actually runs REALLY well.

**skoffs**

Scarey Nerd wrote:
you'd be better spending the points on a NS and Lychguard unit to get them where they need to be as soon as possible

Uh, if you need them "where they need to be as soon as possible", you don't take a NS, you take a VoD.

Scarey Nerd wrote:
If you need a high damage unit in general, use Wraiths with whip coils

... are you suggesting Wraiths are a higher damage dealing unit than Praetorians?

**Tinkrr**

The real issue is that some things sound better, so people default to them, but one thing I noticed when compiling the LVO lists (link in my sig) is that there's a ton of weird stuff out there placing very highly.

Here's the 7th place Necron list that ran Praetorians:

Spoiler:

Heck, the top placing Tau list ran two Breacher squads with Devilfish, and an Ethereal. So yea, tons of weird stuff out there, and as long as it has reasonable stats, even if it seems less efficient, it can do some work.

**harkequin**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You'll also have some people try to argue that they don't get to use their Rods in melee if they shot with them. Those people are actually trying to cheat, but I'm pointing out that it can become a headache.
If Stalkers were cheaper (I'm talking like 15-25 cheaper), they'd be less of a tax and suddenly the Judicator looks more appealing. With their speed the formation is basically "point at an enemy unit with your Stalker and your Praetorians will MURDER it".

I have a single list using a Judicator, 4 squads of Deathmarks, Warriors with Ghost Arks, and then x2 5 Tomb Blades. Nemesor hangs with some Scythe Guard and advances whilst I throw the Immortals behind the Stalker so that the rear armor is less an issue. It actually runs REALLY well.

Meh, the BRB does say choose which mode (ranged or assault) for the TURN. That's what kept me from running rods really, luckily I know my local tourney circuit FAQd it , honestly unless it's a tourney most people should be fine, because it's a stupid rule. In a tourney it's probably FAQd cos its a stupid rule.

Praets are good, but vulnerable to AP 3/2.
They are part of the Trinity of necron Melee.

VB praets beat Flayed ones by quality/quantity of attacks. (4 AP4 on the charge)
Flayed ones beat wraiths through quantity. (5 attacks Shred , on the charge, more bodies in the fight)
Wraiths beat praets by quality ( 2w 3++ S6 rending)

**skoffs**

harkequin wrote:
They are part of the Trinity of necron Melee.

Ah, yes, who could forget the trinity of Necron melee:
- Praetorians
- Wraiths
- Flayed Ones
- Scarabs
- Lychguard
- Spyders
- Nightbringer C'tan Shard
- Warscythe HQ

**harkequin**

skoffs wrote:
harkequin wrote:
They are part of the Trinity of necron Melee.

Ah, yes, who could forget the trinity of Necron melee:
- Praetorians
- Wraiths
- Flayed Ones
- Scarabs
- Lychguard
- Spyders
- Nightbringer C'tan Shard
- Warscythe HQ

"Trinity of killy necron melee units without major mobility issues" just doesn't have the same ring to it

Don't get me wrong, Necrons have an amazing selection for melee, but everything below scarabs there, need other units or wargear working in tandem to get there. Infiltrate/jump/beast mean they will probably get there.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Yeah. Spyders and Lychguard are about the only dudes that have issues getting into melee.

Not sure I'd include Spyders in your list though. They don't exactly wreck face. Nightbringer only stays because I automatically assume the Conclave is being ran in this specific case, as it IS the only way to run the C'Tan.

**skoffs**

You gonna sit there and tell me 9 monstrous creatures aren't going to wreck face?
(yeah, their horde of a billion babies are going to be the speedy threat, but that amount of smash headed anyone's way is typically not something that can just be ignored)

**Slayer-Fan123**

They won't because 9 Spyders aren't going to make it to combat as a reasonable pace.

**harkequin**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
They won't because 9 Spyders aren't going to make it to combat as a reasonable pace.

A scarab farm would surprise you. Scarabs lock down the enemy threats in assault from T1, and the spyders will be in combat by turn 2/3.

At 50 points Spyders are lethal in combat.

**skoffs**

harkequin wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
They won't because 9 Spyders aren't going to make it to combat as a reasonable pace.
Scarabs lock down the enemy threats in assault from T1, and the spyders will be in combat by turn 2/3.

Exactly.
Scarabs run up ahead and grab whatever to hold it until Spyders join the fray.
The only thing they won't pose an immediate threat to are things with Hit And Run.

This is the same tactic for Wraiths and Scythe-Guard.

Praetorians are a little different because they don't need anything to hold things for them until they can smash into it.
They can smash into things on their own just fine. The problem is, if the thing they smash into lives and can hit back, the Praets aren't gonna do so well...

**Slayer-Fan123**

If the other targets are just as fast though, Spyders will have an even more difficult time. Scarabs might be able to help catch Scatterbikes, but they'll still be on the other end of the table and the Spyders need to make it there.

Spyders should be camping and be safe, either spawning more Scarabs or giving of RP for Wraiths and Scarabs. Using them in an offensive role is just asking for First Blood to be given.

**krodarklorr**

You know, I'm surprised people are still complaining about the stalker giving First Blood. That's what reserves are for...

More on topic, I love Praetorians, and would love to run one alongside a Canoptek Harvest, backed up by an Overlord with a Voidreaper and some Sword and Board Lychguard and a few units of Flayed Ones. Should be fuuuuunnn.

**Adam Spielmann**

I don't run praets in my Decurion list (cause I don't have one of the 2 units, and the stalker needed for the Judicator formation) but I do bring them to kill team games, alongside 3 tomb blades, and they do put the hurt. Sure, they may die "easily" (depends on the setup, most of them had issues with dangerous terrain) but they do smash faces. The real issue with them is that they are "just" relying on R5, arm 3+ and 4++ protocols to survive. They're less resilient than more dedicated melee units, and suffer from AP3 weapons swinging at full I.

**Dozer Blades**

If you really want to catch the Warp Spyders you need to cordone off an area and trap them. They will run out of room eventually. It won't work as easy with the jetbikes since they can fly over your army to evade it.

**Massaen**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You'll also have some people try to argue that they don't get to use their Rods in melee if they shot with them. Those people are actually trying to cheat

Can I just say - since when is playing by the rules in the rule book classed as cheating?

Just cause you don't like the rule does not make it cheating. It works on Singing spears for the elder as well as the rod for the praetorians among other things