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I really like the grey knights model and I am looking to paint a few . I love the assault armies and I have a few flesh tearers I like the idea of going in hitting hard and leave. So the question is are Grey knights an assault army a shooty one or a mix?
A mix. They are a 24" shooting army when need be and an assault army when need be with mass ap3 cc weapons and hammerhand.
They are a flexible force meant to soften up their opponent before getting into combat.
"Glory in our suffering, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint"
-Paul of Tarsus
If my post seems goofy, assume I am posting from my phone and the autocorrect elf in my phone is drunk again
joubas wrote: So from what you say its a balanced army not lacking in a specific field and if they bring a lot of AP3 it sounds like a power armor killers
You could say they are the only "balanced" army in that they participate in all phases of the game. This balance is due to a lack of divirsity in units.
SJ
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.”
- Ephesians 6:12
joubas wrote: So from what you say its a balanced army not lacking in a specific field and if they bring a lot of AP3 it sounds like a power armor killers
Grey Knights as a stand alone force have rather large difficulties with any opponent fielding av13/14 vehicles, as well as av11/12 vehicle spam. (ie: Gladius Strike Force)
For the most part, it's an army that outside of the anti-vehicle issues, (which they've always had ever since becoming their own army back in 3rd edition), is mainly a shooting army first, that is then readily capable of finishing off the enemy in assaults.
That's not say you can't play them as a primarily assault based army - Purifiers & Dreadknights are solid beatsticks! However, it's not their real strength.
They're also obviously one of the true 'psyker armies' in the game, as only Daemons & Eldar really compete with them. (new Marine Librarius formation not withstanding)
If you play them as a purely mono-codex force, then yes, you'll find that they're really falling behind the power curve. However, ever since the days of Codex: Dameonhunters, they've really been intended to play as an allied force.
They're definitely ahead of most of the remaining 7th & (obviously) 6th edition codex armies, with only Codex: Daemons having the tools to out gouda them. (still, you're better than BA's, Chaos Marines, Orks, Tyranids, Dark Eldar and Guard + have solid advantages over non-optimised Daemons)
They obviously are well behind what Necron, Vanilla Marines, DA's, Eldar, Tau & now SW's & Daemons can put out in terms of purely competitive lists.
So from what I can understand to be more effective in battle its better to allied them with my flesh tearers for example than make them a stand alone army.In that way they will be more effective
joubas wrote: So from what I can understand to be more effective in battle its better to allied them with my flesh tearers for example than make them a stand alone army.In that way they will be more effective
Not necessarily true. Allying a Purifier heavy NSF to the Flesh Tearers formation that allows 5 Fast selection makes for a strong Drop Pod army, but that is only one way to play GK. A double NSF to maximize NDKs is another popular build. Running an NSF with Imperial Knights is also a strong list build, due to great synergy between the two "Knight" formations. I'm one of those GK players that takes pure GK built to win Maelstrom.
Despite having what some think are few good choices, GK actually have an excellent choice in each FoC slot, and can play competetively if played by a competetive player.
SJ
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.”
- Ephesians 6:12
They murdered greyknights when they took away psybolt ammo.
*Murdered our rifle dreads.
*Murdered our strike squads.
*Murdered our psychic powers.
*Murdered our power weapons.
*Murdered our razorbacks.
They did however make our terms cheaper and make the NDK cheaper - plus the Lvl3 libby is a bargain now. So what is our army? Its a GKT and NDK and Libby spamming force. If you can deal with blanket 2+ saves you are fine and muder the GK. If you can't deal with 2+ saves you will probably still beat them but it will be close. If only they would bring back our old strike squads and psybolt - that would help a great deal.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Xenomancers wrote: They murdered greyknights when they took away psybolt ammo.
*Murdered our rifle dreads.
*Murdered our strike squads.
*Murdered our psychic powers.
*Murdered our power weapons.
*Murdered our razorbacks.
They did however make our terms cheaper and make the NDK cheaper - plus the Lvl3 libby is a bargain now. So what is our army? Its a GKT and NDK and Libby spamming force. If you can deal with blanket 2+ saves you are fine and muder the GK. If you can't deal with 2+ saves you will probably still beat them but it will be close. If only they would bring back our old strike squads and psybolt - that would help a great deal.
Psybolt ammo needed to cost more or be removed. It was ridiculously effective. They chose to remove it.
Xenomancers wrote: They murdered greyknights when they took away psybolt ammo.
*Murdered our rifle dreads.
*Murdered our strike squads.
*Murdered our psychic powers.
*Murdered our power weapons.
*Murdered our razorbacks.
They did however make our terms cheaper and make the NDK cheaper - plus the Lvl3 libby is a bargain now. So what is our army? Its a GKT and NDK and Libby spamming force. If you can deal with blanket 2+ saves you are fine and muder the GK. If you can't deal with 2+ saves you will probably still beat them but it will be close. If only they would bring back our old strike squads and psybolt - that would help a great deal.
Psybolt ammo needed to cost more or be removed. It was ridiculously effective. They chose to remove it.
Psyboly Ammo gave a reason to be okay with Stormbolters. That wasn't worth the removing.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Xenomancers wrote: They murdered greyknights when they took away psybolt ammo.
*Murdered our rifle dreads.
*Murdered our strike squads.
*Murdered our psychic powers.
*Murdered our power weapons.
*Murdered our razorbacks.
They did however make our terms cheaper and make the NDK cheaper - plus the Lvl3 libby is a bargain now. So what is our army? Its a GKT and NDK and Libby spamming force. If you can deal with blanket 2+ saves you are fine and muder the GK. If you can't deal with 2+ saves you will probably still beat them but it will be close. If only they would bring back our old strike squads and psybolt - that would help a great deal.
Psybolt ammo needed to cost more or be removed. It was ridiculously effective. They chose to remove it.
It was effective - thats why I liked it. Can't even use strike squads now. Razorbacks? forget it.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Xenomancers wrote: They murdered greyknights when they took away psybolt ammo.
*Murdered our rifle dreads.
*Murdered our strike squads.
*Murdered our psychic powers.
*Murdered our power weapons.
*Murdered our razorbacks.
They did however make our terms cheaper and make the NDK cheaper - plus the Lvl3 libby is a bargain now. So what is our army? Its a GKT and NDK and Libby spamming force. If you can deal with blanket 2+ saves you are fine and muder the GK. If you can't deal with 2+ saves you will probably still beat them but it will be close. If only they would bring back our old strike squads and psybolt - that would help a great deal.
Psybolt ammo needed to cost more or be removed. It was ridiculously effective. They chose to remove it.
It was effective - thats why I liked it. Can't even use strike squads now. Razorbacks? forget it.
I like Screamerstar because 2++ rerollable invul is effective. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be nerfed or removed
Xenomancers wrote: They murdered greyknights when they took away psybolt ammo.
*Murdered our rifle dreads.
*Murdered our strike squads.
*Murdered our psychic powers.
*Murdered our power weapons.
*Murdered our razorbacks.
They did however make our terms cheaper and make the NDK cheaper - plus the Lvl3 libby is a bargain now. So what is our army? Its a GKT and NDK and Libby spamming force. If you can deal with blanket 2+ saves you are fine and muder the GK. If you can't deal with 2+ saves you will probably still beat them but it will be close. If only they would bring back our old strike squads and psybolt - that would help a great deal.
Psybolt ammo needed to cost more or be removed. It was ridiculously effective. They chose to remove it.
It was effective - thats why I liked it. Can't even use strike squads now. Razorbacks? forget it.
I like Screamerstar because 2++ rerollable invul is effective. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be nerfed or removed
Are you possibly suggesting that Psybolt Ammo was THAT over the top?
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Xenomancers wrote: They murdered greyknights when they took away psybolt ammo.
*Murdered our rifle dreads.
*Murdered our strike squads.
*Murdered our psychic powers.
*Murdered our power weapons.
*Murdered our razorbacks.
They did however make our terms cheaper and make the NDK cheaper - plus the Lvl3 libby is a bargain now. So what is our army? Its a GKT and NDK and Libby spamming force. If you can deal with blanket 2+ saves you are fine and muder the GK. If you can't deal with 2+ saves you will probably still beat them but it will be close. If only they would bring back our old strike squads and psybolt - that would help a great deal.
Psybolt ammo needed to cost more or be removed. It was ridiculously effective. They chose to remove it.
It was effective - thats why I liked it. Can't even use strike squads now. Razorbacks? forget it.
I like Screamerstar because 2++ rerollable invul is effective. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be nerfed or removed
Are you possibly suggesting that Psybolt Ammo was THAT over the top?
It was fine on Storm Bolters, though it should have simply been a pts/model upgrade instead of a flat rate, as it was only of value if you took full squads. When it came to vehicles, it was fair on Heavy Bolters.
It was criminally undercosted however on Autocannons, which is where a lot of the anger stems from.
I don't agree with the amount of whining from some however about GK's being crap... Sure if you try to mono them, they're pants for the most part against most of the 7.5 stuff and hugely limited in their builds. (though no more so than ANY of the other remaining 6th + 7th ed books at this point)
At the end of the day, they're still a good army when compared up against the other books from 2014 and earlier, and they have the single most adaptable pool of allies to draw from thanks to IoM shenanigans.
Army-wide Force toys still scare the crap out MEQ's, Bugs & Daemons at the end of the day, and their psychic phase is still among the best in the game. Meanwhile, they have among the best small arms fire output, and their template weapons are dirt cheap and (again) among the game's best.
Hopefully GK's can get a proper 7.5 book later this year, but overall, I'd still rate them ahead of the likes of Orks, Tyranids & BA's. (and CSM's, but then being better than them isn't anything to write home about! )
Xenomancers wrote: They murdered greyknights when they took away psybolt ammo.
*Murdered our rifle dreads.
*Murdered our strike squads.
*Murdered our psychic powers.
*Murdered our power weapons.
*Murdered our razorbacks.
They did however make our terms cheaper and make the NDK cheaper - plus the Lvl3 libby is a bargain now. So what is our army? Its a GKT and NDK and Libby spamming force. If you can deal with blanket 2+ saves you are fine and muder the GK. If you can't deal with 2+ saves you will probably still beat them but it will be close. If only they would bring back our old strike squads and psybolt - that would help a great deal.
Psybolt ammo needed to cost more or be removed. It was ridiculously effective. They chose to remove it.
It was effective - thats why I liked it. Can't even use strike squads now. Razorbacks? forget it.
I like Screamerstar because 2++ rerollable invul is effective. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be nerfed or removed
Xenomancers wrote: They murdered greyknights when they took away psybolt ammo.
*Murdered our rifle dreads.
*Murdered our strike squads.
*Murdered our psychic powers.
*Murdered our power weapons.
*Murdered our razorbacks.
They did however make our terms cheaper and make the NDK cheaper - plus the Lvl3 libby is a bargain now. So what is our army? Its a GKT and NDK and Libby spamming force. If you can deal with blanket 2+ saves you are fine and muder the GK. If you can't deal with 2+ saves you will probably still beat them but it will be close. If only they would bring back our old strike squads and psybolt - that would help a great deal.
Psybolt ammo needed to cost more or be removed. It was ridiculously effective. They chose to remove it.
It was effective - thats why I liked it. Can't even use strike squads now. Razorbacks? forget it.
I like Screamerstar because 2++ rerollable invul is effective. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be nerfed or removed
Are you possibly suggesting that Psybolt Ammo was THAT over the top?
It was fine on Storm Bolters, though it should have simply been a pts/model upgrade instead of a flat rate, as it was only of value if you took full squads. When it came to vehicles, it was fair on Heavy Bolters.
It was criminally undercosted however on Autocannons, which is where a lot of the anger stems from.
I don't agree with the amount of whining from some however about GK's being crap... Sure if you try to mono them, they're pants for the most part against most of the 7.5 stuff and hugely limited in their builds. (though no more so than ANY of the other remaining 6th + 7th ed books at this point)
At the end of the day, they're still a good army when compared up against the other books from 2014 and earlier, and they have the single most adaptable pool of allies to draw from thanks to IoM shenanigans.
Army-wide Force toys still scare the crap out MEQ's, Bugs & Daemons at the end of the day, and their psychic phase is still among the best in the game. Meanwhile, they have among the best small arms fire output, and their template weapons are dirt cheap and (again) among the game's best.
Hopefully GK's can get a proper 7.5 book later this year, but overall, I'd still rate them ahead of the likes of Orks, Tyranids & BA's. (and CSM's, but then being better than them isn't anything to write home about! )
IMO orks are about the only army that struggles against mono GK.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/15 20:56:52
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
I find that the secret to GK is in mobility. Using deep strike, personal teleporters, and Gate to fly around the board, isolating units and grabbing objectives as needed.
High AV is always an issue, but what can't be beat down with thunder hammers can usually be avoided.
Xenomancers wrote: They murdered greyknights when they took away psybolt ammo.
*Murdered our rifle dreads.
*Murdered our strike squads.
*Murdered our psychic powers.
*Murdered our power weapons.
*Murdered our razorbacks.
They did however make our terms cheaper and make the NDK cheaper - plus the Lvl3 libby is a bargain now. So what is our army? Its a GKT and NDK and Libby spamming force. If you can deal with blanket 2+ saves you are fine and muder the GK. If you can't deal with 2+ saves you will probably still beat them but it will be close. If only they would bring back our old strike squads and psybolt - that would help a great deal.
Psybolt ammo needed to cost more or be removed. It was ridiculously effective. They chose to remove it.
Absurd.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/16 05:46:40
Akiasura wrote: Which ones? I haven't struggled with them before.
Off the top of my head, Orks, SoB, Astra Mil, Skitarii/AdMec without a Knight. 'Nids can be dicey as well depending on army comp.
SOB is hardly even a codex - I'll give you them though. Ad mech spams grav cannons...they slaughter GK. Astra also slaughters them - they spam bs4 plasma and large blasts and have ignore cover from orders that GK can't nullify - plus GK struggle vs mech if that is any indication about how terrible the GK are currently. Mono GK just can't compete.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
Xenomancers wrote: They murdered greyknights when they took away psybolt ammo.
*Murdered our rifle dreads.
*Murdered our strike squads.
*Murdered our psychic powers.
*Murdered our power weapons.
*Murdered our razorbacks.
They did however make our terms cheaper and make the NDK cheaper - plus the Lvl3 libby is a bargain now. So what is our army? Its a GKT and NDK and Libby spamming force. If you can deal with blanket 2+ saves you are fine and muder the GK. If you can't deal with 2+ saves you will probably still beat them but it will be close. If only they would bring back our old strike squads and psybolt - that would help a great deal.
Psybolt ammo needed to cost more or be removed. It was ridiculously effective. They chose to remove it.
Absurd.
No, psybolt ammo shifted the math on a lot of units a great deal. Psybolt ammo was absurd with the hull point mechanic.
Akiasura wrote: Which ones? I haven't struggled with them before.
Off the top of my head, Orks, SoB, Astra Mil, Skitarii/AdMec without a Knight. 'Nids can be dicey as well depending on army comp.
BA's can also really struggle, and it goes without saying but, Chaos Marines. (and even certain Daemon builds, particularly Tzeentch focused)
The GKs can't usually catch me, even with shunt. I run away and shoot them with grav and MM. It's actually a good matchup for BA. You just have to be willing to never assault.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/16 14:48:48
GK vs BA is a fair match. BA actually have the advantage though.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
SoB have tons of Str 8, AP1; if you are playing Sisters and can't kill a DreadKnight every turn, you built your list wrong.
Astra Mil have a monoply on Lascannons. Why are you not taking Lascannons?
Orks win versus GK via tarpitting. GK do not have enough attacks to clear a full unit of Boyz in a single turn, let alone two or three units of Boyz. But those Orks generate enough attacks to guarantee failed saves on every GK, be they TDA or NDK.
Nids are in the same catagory as Orks, except Nids can block GK from using psychic powers, which makes tarpitting GK even easier.
Blood Angels can pack enough Plasma to fry any GK except Draigo, and Draigo dies to massed Bolter fire.
Frankly, the only army in the game that is fully out classed by GK is Dark Eldar, and even that depends on the GK player taking shunting Incinerators and/or podded Cleansing Flame.
SJ
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.”
- Ephesians 6:12
Akiasura wrote: Which ones? I haven't struggled with them before.
Off the top of my head, Orks, SoB, Astra Mil, Skitarii/AdMec without a Knight. 'Nids can be dicey as well depending on army comp.
SOB is hardly even a codex - I'll give you them though. Ad mech spams grav cannons...they slaughter GK. Astra also slaughters them - they spam bs4 plasma and large blasts and have ignore cover from orders that GK can't nullify - plus GK struggle vs mech if that is any indication about how terrible the GK are currently. Mono GK just can't compete.
Who needs large blasts and plasma? Killing a NDK with lasgun fire is the best experience I have ever had in warhammer. I somehow believe that the pilot was blinded by laser pens and tripped on his own sword.
17,000 points (Valhallan)
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Proud Countess of House Terryn hosting 7 Knights, 2 Dominus Knights, and 8 Armigers
Stormcast Eternals: 7,000 points
"Remember, Orks are weak and cowardly, they are easily beat in close combat and their tusks, while menacing, can easily be pulled out with a sharp tug"
. I love the assault armies and I have a few flesh tearers I like the idea of going in hitting hard and leave. So the question is are Grey knights an assault army a shooty one or a mix?
17,000 points (Valhallan)
10,000 points
6,000 points (Order of Our Martyred Lady)
Proud Countess of House Terryn hosting 7 Knights, 2 Dominus Knights, and 8 Armigers