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I have been trying to figure out a way to make my enormous ork horde halfway decent again. I got an idea to just do lots of orks allied orks or detachment of orks.

some of our units are greet but glass cannons so I figure target saturation might actually make them ok.

example: 2 squads of 3 rokkit buggies die quickly even to bolter, but running em as 6 individual buggies cheap as chips and splits targets to shoot at and be shot at. It also if choosing detachment allows for 5 HQs so warboss biker, mega nob biker, and 3 painboys around. Having 6 heavies so can actually bring a couple battle wagons and still run 3 min size squads of lootas and a big guns squad.

Obviously with boys still do BW boys squads of 20, nob/pk or if foot slogging then in 30's screened by gretchin but they are so cheap it hardly matters with them.

I am just spit baling an idea and curious if anybody is using this as a tactic, I love me my orks but at this point they are practically unplayable. I like a good close competitive game where anybody can win, not me jus putting down and picking up models as they get destroyed

I run 6 individual Deff Koptas, and 3+ squads of 5 Tankbustas in Trukks in most of my competitive lists. MSU works pretty well for Orks.

The general rule of thumb I go by with Orks is that the only reason I don't field the max sized squad is because 30 don't fit in a bw or truck. I suppose with the rare exception all other units follow the same logic. With Orks I try to create redundancy then drown the enemy in saves. A couple exceptions do come to mind, with Grots if you are making a big unit it's OK to do 19 or 29 to avoid a bit of runt herd tax. Deffkoptas are good alone. Lastly more then 5 Manz in a unit might be overdoing it ending with a bunch of unused wounds especially if the unit ends having no more enemies nearby thanks to being relatively slow.

I have been too - here is a start you could swap some of the troups for trukks for more obsec in the CAD.

My list (1820 bare but 1850 with a bombsquig on each unit of tankbustas)

CAD

Weird boy
3 units 5 tankbutas
6 units 10 shootaboys
3 units 1 deffcopta
3 units 1 kustom mega cannon

Horde detachment
weird boy
3 units 5 tankbutas
7 units 10 shootaboys
2 units 10 grots plus runtherd
3 units 1 deffcopta
3 units 1 kustom mega cannon

do you generally play maelstrom? If not, I wonder how you plan on denying KPs, in particular with that buggy idea (which is intriguing, just seems like you're giving away points.

Even outside of Maelstrom, 5/6 of the Eternal War missions don't use kill points, outside of First Blood and STW - I'd think that would be a minor consideration. (Although giving up First Blood is a worry.)

Some units work better in bigger squads while others work fine in min squads.
With the horrible nerd that is mobrule you either need rules to avoid it or try to work with it.
For example, the bully boyz formation gives fearless, there is the big boss pole that can give a unit fearless as well.
Their are 2 ways to work with mob rule. Either do large squads with boss poles in hopes that numbers will drown out your opponent before those large squads get too small, or you hosts min squads with little to no upgrades to diminish their loss because they were so cheap.
Min squads of tankbusts do miracles, since it only takes 1 or 2 melt bombs to get the job done. Same goes for defkoptas and meganobz.
Boyz, komamdoes, and stormboyz are better in large squads, all the better to hide that one nob with pk.
I suggest experimentation. Find out what works better for some units and not for others.

As said some some units work fantastically in small units. An example I found that works well is single deffkopta units.

These 2 wounded toughness 5 jetbikes are great at turbo boosting behind your opponents prized leman russ on turn and mess them up with tl rokkits. They're also great at getting an easy linebreaker secondary objective, which is why I always take one or two suicide squads to just be a real nuisance, and pop some rear armour on turn 1.

yea, deff koptas have been little suicide units forever but I have better luck with rokkit buggies. I will sometimes put one deff kopta with my war boss for majority toughness 6. I am more curious if this has been tried ( i am sure it has) list example

warboss bike pk
painboy bike


warboss mega armor
painboy

nob bikers
3 mega nobs in bw
5 tank bustas trukk
5 tank bustas trukk
5 tank bustas trukk

dakka jet
rokkit buggie
rokkit buggie
rokkit buggie
rokkit buggie
deffkopta rokkit

gretchin
grethin
boyz boyz

kannon
kannon
traktor beam
5 lootas
5 lootas
5 lootas

for lower points type games axe the nob bikers and biker warboss

Generally i stick to 20man boyz even if theyre footslogging. I find beyond that seems to choke them up on terrain too much and less than that they never do anything.

Never more than 3 MANz. Kinda wish Bully Boyz didnt have 5man requirements.
Solo deffkoptas are oddly effective
Min warbiker squads arent bad either, though i tend to field a maxed out squad when da boss is on his wheelz more for ablative wounds than anything else.
More than min tank bustas tends to be a bit of a point-sink to bother.
And who the hell ever uses Lootas/Flash Gitz/Burnas/Kommandos/Stormboyz (outside their respective formations) anyway so theyre out lol. A max lobba squad does more damage than lootas do for me and sticks around longer too...for cheaper! yeah no AV potential but thats what PKs are for

MSU can backfire with units like boyz cause mob rule screws you up with mandatory additional hits.

MSU meganobz, koptas, buggies, lootas, bustas are good. But msu boyz are only somewhat passable in trukks.

I do agree on the boyz, I do not take them in less than 20, in the above list I would be running then in 30 man groups with nob and pk advancing behind the other stuff, if points allowed I would be taking even more than 2 squads of 30

The point is really, that any significant hit is enough to cause the unit to run, or turn it into a chaff unit, but if the units are small then any individual loss is no great worry, better to lose a unit of 10 boys to mob rule, than a unit of 20.

Trukks are a good idea though

2 CADs each consisting of

Weird boy
3 units 5 tankbutas
4 units 10 shootaboys in trukk with Ram
2 units 10 Gretchen with runtherd
3 units 1 deffcopta
3 units 1 kustom mega cannon

gives 20 obsec units and 20 other units.

 RFHolloway wrote:
The point is really, that any significant hit is enough to cause the unit to run, or turn it into a chaff unit, but if the units are small then any individual loss is no great worry, better to lose a unit of 10 boys to mob rule, than a unit of 20.

Trukks are a good idea though

2 CADs each consisting of

Weird boy
3 units 5 tankbutas
4 units 10 shootaboys in trukk with Ram
2 units 10 Gretchen with runtherd
3 units 1 deffcopta
3 units 1 kustom mega cannon

gives 20 obsec units and 20 other units.

Dropping the nob and PK is an interesting choice. Why not put the tankbustas in trukks as well?

Yes please. Please let my Imohotek make all of his points back in one lightning storm. Please please please

I bring 6 units of 5 Lootaz spread in the Corners of the board, 3 solo deffkoptaz to scout (and infiltrate if I get the Strategic trait), and 3 solo buggies out flanking to every game so far.

The buggies always disrupt, score, block, and kite enemy units. The koptaz eat overwatch, and the lootaz go to ground behind an ADL for a sweet 2+.

In today's game I kept Space Wolves locked in their own deployment zone the whole game due to these solo units.

My group also plays Maelstrom exclusively so scoring points each turn is more important. Cheap MSU orks can do that. A 25 pt buggy has scored me more points than a fully loaded Ork trukk has.

Does your group allow an ADL to be deployed in multiple sections?

 Singleton Mosby wrote:

Dropping the nob and PK is an interesting choice. Why not put the tankbustas in trukks as well?

Obsec trukks will be better, but you could drop gretchin units for trukks (they both disappear to a stiff breeze).

The boys don't all have to use their trukks , so you could load up a couple with tankbustas and camp the remaining boys units.

My group allows the ADL to split. After all, there's no 7TH edition FAQ to say otherwise.

I like buggies a lot. I made my own sculpt for them and are now the proud owner of 15 beautiful home made buggies.

BUT NEVER FIELD THEM IF YOU WANT A GOOD RESULT : P

Field deffkopta's instead they are just so much better in staying alive, moving around and as a bonus they can even assault things.

Warbuggies are good in Skwadrons. Outflank them Rokkits.

True you could Outflank Deffkoptas skwads, but why? They work best solo - and Warbuggies are cheaper too.

I find i prefer the buggies to koptas that whole leadership not being a problem and the models are easy to hide out of los looking at just what they want to shoot and maybe a few other things (plus they are not individually that much of a threat oen tl rokkit hitting on 5's ... or the nob bikers and battlewagons/trukks with meganobs?