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2016/02/19 19:07:28
Subject: Re:Privateer Press Kickstarter - Widower's Wood board game
The more time (and money) I waste on Kickstarter, the more I wish GW would get off their duff and do us all a proper and bring Quest up to date.
Even on this game's comments, people were asking for WHQ's mechanics to make an appearance.
There's an awful lot of desire out there for a game of similar quality- AI opponents, random dungeons, persistent character progression, money to waste on phat loot and swag, (somewhat) quick playtime...
....none of these companies seem to get it. Some have come close, but nobody's made it. Yet.
Privateer is one company that really could have done it too.
Poorly lit photos of my ever- growing collection of completely unrelated models!
PP had a stated goal. They met stated goal. I don't forsee them taking the massive hit financially a lot of other Kickstarters do when they try to make it a 'can't miss' opportunity.
They wanted to gauge interest in a super limited designer box version of their board games. Clearly, they got their answer.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/19 19:10:32
Privateer Press wrote:Hi Tyler,
Sorry if you missed that posted thread on our forums and on the BGG forums. I thought it had been referenced here but was apparently lost to a draft.
I'm sorry if you're not satisfied with the campaign but I should point out that a retail release is only contingent upon retailer demand post-Kickstarter. We are of course always taking the feedback of our backers into account and I hope you'll find reason to continue to support us.
Emphasis mine. Now, perhaps I am misreading (or reading too much into it) but that seems to indicate that there are no firm plans to actual bring the "retail" version to retail. Again, I could be wrong, but that would seem to jibe with the overall feel of the campaign.
Speaking of, the latest update is... well, I'd say, underwhelming;
LANYSSA RYSSYL UNLOCKED AND FREE SHIPPING ON THE UNDERCITY IN THE PRIVATEER ONLINE STORE!
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In just three days we’ve knocked out three stretch goals! Now that we’ve hit $175,000 the sorceress Lanyssa Ryssyl will join the heroes available in your games of Widower’s Wood.
For illustrative purposes only. Final product may vary.
The indomitable sorceress, Lanyssa Ryssyl has seen her people destroyed and their lands despoiled. Having fled her ancestral lands, she wanders seeking the means to revenge against the horrors of the Legion of Everblight, and has vowed to use every means at her disposal in their annihilation.
This means that once more the time has come to unveil our next stretch goals…
For illustrative purposes only. Final product may vary.
For illustrative purposes only. Final product may vary.
For illustrative purposes only. Final product may vary.
Despite being the smallest known speices of its kind, viper tatzylwurms are believed to have developed their lethal adaptations as a result of competition with other dangerous creatures and the need to kill resilient prey. They are vicious pack hunters, capable of coordinating their hunting activities with chilling efficiency.
But of course, there are several goals between here and there. Next up is the first supplemental mission for the game and a few more.
For illustrative purposes only. Final product may vary.
For illustrative purposes only. Final product may vary.
For illustrative purposes only. Final product may vary.
For illustrative purposes only. Final product may vary.
For illustrative purposes only. Final product may vary.
Finally, we’ve received a lot of requests to make The Undercity part of this campaign. While we won’t be doing that, we are offering free shipping on The Undercity for domestic orders and reduced shipping for international orders!
The Undercity is fully compatible with Widower’s Wood and will be a great way to spend your gaming time until Widower’s Wood arrives in early 2017.
To get your free domestic shipping, enter promo code gamenight when checking out.
For the reduced rate on shipping for international orders, enter promo code gameon in the NOTES section of your order and we’ll automatically take $20 off your total. Please note: do not put this into the promo code field, put ‘gameon’ in the NOTES section and we will manually adjust your shipping rate before your card is charged. Head to the Privateer Press store now and complete your collection!
Thanks so much for your continued support. Keep sharing the Kickstarter and we’ll keep knocking down those stretch goals!
Once again, all the stretch goals of substance are reserved for the KS exclusive levels. I think that we can be safe in saying that they have little to no interest in actually selling this game at retail, unless they expect it to be the stuff of bargan bin sales, because there is no way the existing (and extended) retail version is a $100 game.
Privateer Press wrote:Hi Tyler,
Sorry if you missed that posted thread on our forums and on the BGG forums. I thought it had been referenced here but was apparently lost to a draft.
I'm sorry if you're not satisfied with the campaign but I should point out that a retail release is only contingent upon retailer demand post-Kickstarter. We are of course always taking the feedback of our backers into account and I hope you'll find reason to continue to support us.
Emphasis mine. Now, perhaps I am misreading (or reading too much into it) but that seems to indicate that there are no firm plans to actual bring the "retail" version to retail. Again, I could be wrong, but that would seem to jibe with the overall feel of the campaign.
Once again, all the stretch goals of substance are reserved for the KS exclusive levels. I think that we can be safe in saying that they have little to no interest in actually selling this game at retail, unless they expect it to be the stuff of bargan bin sales, because there is no way the existing (and extended) retail version is a $100 game.
I read that as saying, "BACK THIS NOW!! NOW NOW NOW!"
I don't believe we won't actually see this boardgame out in retail stores now that it's been funded and if it's produced and I feel PP is being disingenuous by hinting that people who don't back this won't see the game ever considering PP keeps trying to get into the boardgame market.
Also, what's more interesting about this campaign are the pledge levels. There are very few at the base 100 pledge, which already feels overpriced. Instead, most of them are at 140 and 40% of them are at the whopping 250 level. I'm not sure who's backing this but it probably isn't the average board game fan.
My warmachine batrep & other misc stuff blog
http://sining83.blogspot.com/
2016/02/20 02:31:50
Subject: Privateer Press Kickstarter - Widower's Wood board game
I took it as a reference to how Undercity failed to take off.
I've always felt this Kickstarter was a result of Undercity's lack of momentum. And this is coming from someone who loves Undercity, but is did not fair well with the board gamer crown.
Also the $100 pledge is $5 over MSRP and gets very few extras, plus shipping
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/20 02:34:58
2016/02/20 02:36:37
Subject: Privateer Press Kickstarter - Widower's Wood board game
Undercity had a lot of issues with it. It was fun to play but it's repetitive and only had 8 scenarios in it. The monster AI was also screwy at times so you could really just game the system and not break a sweat playing through missions.
I think PP needs a better board game designer rather than letting in-house people design them if they're serious about breaking into the boardgame market
Also they kind of need to realise that boardgames have come a long way and that their plastic is kind of crappy for a miniatures boardgame.
My warmachine batrep & other misc stuff blog
http://sining83.blogspot.com/
2016/02/20 02:45:10
Subject: Privateer Press Kickstarter - Widower's Wood board game
The sad thing is Zombies Keep out was a good game with lots of potential to catch on with peopel outside the W/H community, but they never really pushed it to anybody outside of the W/H community. The same goes for most of the bodgers games, PP mostly presented to the wargamers who for the most part seem to resent PP doing anything that isn't W/H.
I know some players that get mad about IKRPG because it takes focus from W/H.
High Command had potential also, but the W/H theme ment it mostly forcued on those players, and again they mostly resented it ot being the actual miniatures game.
2016/02/20 02:58:10
Subject: Privateer Press Kickstarter - Widower's Wood board game
A lot of WMH players I know played High Command. It died because PP killed it off with slow release dates. When it came out over here, a lot of people I know who play WMH bought the WM High command box. But the original box was so damn broken and iirc, Khador could just VP spam like a madman, which made for some very unfun games/tourneys.
At which point everyone dropped it. By the time PP released enough cards to supplement the other factions, no one played HC here anymore.
My warmachine batrep & other misc stuff blog
http://sining83.blogspot.com/
2016/02/20 03:03:26
Subject: Privateer Press Kickstarter - Widower's Wood board game
Sining wrote: A lot of WMH players I know played High Command. It died because PP killed it off with slow release dates. When it came out over here, a lot of people I know who play WMH bought the WM High command box. But the original box was so damn broken and iirc, Khador could just VP spam like a madman, which made for some very unfun games/tourneys.
At which point everyone dropped it. By the time PP released enough cards to supplement the other factions, no one played HC here anymore.
True, that's pretty much what happened here also, that and Dropzone Commander.
Also PP seemed to lose interest in the game themselves. The 2 player pack they released at Gencon came off as a token gesture.
2016/02/20 03:07:07
Subject: Privateer Press Kickstarter - Widower's Wood board game
If they want to break into board games, get someone who actually designs board games for a living and not do it in-house. Hire that person full-time, give him his own small department and just let him do his thing.
I mean if the past few years have shown us anything, small companies CAN grow a lot bigger suddenly in the boardgame market. They just need to be dedicated and not make horrible boardgames.
My warmachine batrep & other misc stuff blog
http://sining83.blogspot.com/
2016/02/20 04:43:09
Subject: Re:Privateer Press Kickstarter - Widower's Wood board game
This reminds me of the huge build up there was to the first Level 7 game that PP put out: I don't know if folks remember, but PP went and made... well, a short movie, for lack of a better term, for the announcement.
Seriously, remember this?
Written and directed by Matthew D. Wilson and shot on the RED Epic camera system, [WELCOME TO] LEVEL 7 takes viewers on a terrifying eight-minute thrill-ride into the bowels of a secret government-run underground facility where humans work side-by-side with extraterrestrials in an effort to forward a mysterious agenda.
Sometimes I get the feeling that Matt simply isn't happy with just having WM/H on his plate, which leads to these outings into areas beyond his or PP's core competence. I have a vague memory of getting shadowbanned on the PP forums for criticizing Level 7 and the baffling decision to include no miniatures in the first game (my understanding is that the follow-ups to L7 include miniatures).
By the by, in support of my feeling about Wilson's frustrated desires? That video is hosted on Wilson's YouTube channel, and doesn't seem to be anywhere on PP's own channel. I remember hearing a rumor at the time that video came out that Wilson had moved to California with heady dreams of producing more films, but that's completely unconfirmed (EDIT: as pointed out below, it's completely confirmed).
What really gets me is that PP is letting their core products suffer, if for no other reason then they are still, still, using vastly inferior materials and charging top prices. Years after GW has gone completely plastic it is simply unacceptable that PP is using metal, PVC and hybrid kits. PP has some simply shockingly bad sculpts, and are now producing line troops that are markedly inferior to stuff being put out by one and two man operations off Kickstarter (Dreamforge and Kingdom Death in particular show how poorly many PP kits have aged).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/20 17:41:46
Man, I remember the first lvl 7 game. They were hinting they were doing something scifi and back then, a lot of people, me included, thought it was a scifi skirmish game.
Probably would have been more popular if it was.
My warmachine batrep & other misc stuff blog
http://sining83.blogspot.com/
2016/02/20 06:34:00
Subject: Re:Privateer Press Kickstarter - Widower's Wood board game
By the by, in support of my feeling about Wilson's frustrated desires? That video is hosted on Wilson's YouTube channel, and doesn't seem to be anywhere on PP's own channel. I remember hearing a rumor at the time that video came out that Wilson had moved to California with heady dreams of producing more films, but that's completely unconfirmed.
He did move. A couple people that used to work there told me that he did have a house in Los Angeles and he was turning up to a couple WMH tournaments (store level) in the LA area. Have to find the Long Beach store that had pictures of him turning up. Not sure if he still lives in LA. That was 3-5 years ago. Wilson wants to get into Hollywood and make movies. The Grind game was pitched as a cartoon. There were kids piloting those jacks.
Well, it's still climbing slow and steady, I'm sure over time it will add enough to make it a better value, and I'm sure the last couple days will do great. There's been some campaigns that were dull the whole time then suddenly doubled on the last day.
I remember getting all excited for Level 7 when I saw that video, then I was like "where's the minis?" and forgot all about it till now. Same thing kinda with Xenoshift, being a cool "mini" or not game, I was expecting cool minis and was disappointed that there wren't any. Guess I just love my army men.
2016/02/22 21:17:39
Subject: Privateer Press Kickstarter - Widower's Wood board game
Level 7: Omega Protocol (the minitatures based dungeon crawler) was pretty good from what I heard. It actually got pretty good reviews from Boardgame reviewers. A lot of the same people that didn't like Undercity, Really liked Omega Protocol
2016/02/23 08:27:40
Subject: Re:Privateer Press Kickstarter - Widower's Wood board game
Buzzsaw wrote: What really gets me is that PP is letting their core products suffer, if for no other reason then they are still, still, using vastly inferior materials and charging top prices. Years after GW has gone completely plastic it is simply unacceptable that PP is using metal, PVC and hybrid kits. PP has some simply shockingly bad sculpts, and are now producing line troops that are markedly inferior to stuff being put out by one and two man operations off Kickstarter (Dreamforge and Kingdom Death in particular show how poorly many PP kits have aged).
Given that no-one else has challenged you on this - why are metal and resin/metal hybrid kits unacceptable? I'll give you the PVC/Restic stuff has a bad reputation, though the kits I've bought in it from PP have been fine, but I very rarely see anything negative about the metal or hybrid kits. A detailed metal sculpt, taking advantage of the strengths of the medium, will look better to me than the result of the average plastic kit, where the detail suffers from certain angles due to the limitations of the medium.
PP is moving into "traditional" plastic for kits that suit the medium, in their eyes, but don't have it set-up in-house - I'd agree that that is something they should look at, but so far they've chosen other avenues. And if they think it is the right material for only certain types of kit, then I can understand why they are hesitant to invest in an in-house set-up.
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
2016/02/23 18:05:35
Subject: Re:Privateer Press Kickstarter - Widower's Wood board game
Buzzsaw wrote: What really gets me is that PP is letting their core products suffer, if for no other reason then they are still, still, using vastly inferior materials and charging top prices. Years after GW has gone completely plastic it is simply unacceptable that PP is using metal, PVC and hybrid kits. PP has some simply shockingly bad sculpts, and are now producing line troops that are markedly inferior to stuff being put out by one and two man operations off Kickstarter (Dreamforge and Kingdom Death in particular show how poorly many PP kits have aged).
Given that no-one else has challenged you on this - why are metal and resin/metal hybrid kits unacceptable? I'll give you the PVC/Restic stuff has a bad reputation, though the kits I've bought in it from PP have been fine, but I very rarely see anything negative about the metal or hybrid kits. A detailed metal sculpt, taking advantage of the strengths of the medium, will look better to me than the result of the average plastic kit, where the detail suffers from certain angles due to the limitations of the medium.
PP is moving into "traditional" plastic for kits that suit the medium, in their eyes, but don't have it set-up in-house - I'd agree that that is something they should look at, but so far they've chosen other avenues. And if they think it is the right material for only certain types of kit, then I can understand why they are hesitant to invest in an in-house set-up.
Forgive me, I spoke somewhat inartfully: when I said 'hybrid kits' I was thinking of the metal-PVC kits like some older Banes I had purchased, that then the newer colossal kits (about which I know little). That said, while I am happy to hear about the quality of their resin kits, I can't go along with the idea that their trooper kits are fine. My experience with Convergence of Cyriss kits was nothing short of unacceptable (granted I have heard later offerings are less terrible).
With regards to plastics, I just can't follow you: as the satisfied owner of both Kingdom Death plastics and Dreamforge kits, I simply can no longer tolerate the idea of paying the prices they are charging for models of the quality of their trooper kits. Similarly, I just cannot accept that PP has kept pace with the rest of the field. In fact, while I am a huge fan of their rules (and a medium fan of their fiction), I haven't bought any models from PP in ages, simply because I have had such disappointment with their models. This is not to say that they never produce good stuff: they do occasionally hit it out of the park, generally with their character models (see Haley 3, for example), but I cannot say the same, by and large, about their trooper kits.
Moreso then any specific complaint, I simply don't believe that a company that is in PP's position should be putting out kits like they are. I am willing to be shown that I have misjudged them, but that has been my experience.
Buzzsaw wrote: I simply can no longer tolerate the idea of paying the prices they are charging for models of the quality of their trooper kits.
Pretty much sums up why I haven't bought anything from them in a long time. I go to look at their new models, look at the price, and instantly start thinking of how much more stuff I can get from other companies (heck, even from GW!) for the same price point. When confronted with $3-$4+ per mini for restic troops, I can't help but turn away.
"The Omnissiah is my Moderati"
2016/02/23 18:43:04
Subject: Re:Privateer Press Kickstarter - Widower's Wood board game
I like how talk his completely moved on from the actual campaign.
The game recently passed the 200k mark, netting the extra KS- exclusive scenario.
They also unveiled the latest goal.
...of which there are already 10 in the box.
There's also this goal.
500 shares is a little under half of all the backers. Hope they can reach that goal.
Some new tile art to go with either this game or the Iron Kingdoms RPG.
Poorly lit photos of my ever- growing collection of completely unrelated models!
The game recently passed the 200k mark, netting the extra KS- exclusive scenario.
Is anybody else a little surprised at this? While not exactly a runaway success, $200k with 20 days left is pretty impressive.
That's the thing: $200k is a lot of money for a small company or a start-up, but for PP? It's almost an embarrassingly low amount. PP has a world-wide fandom, a (comparatively) huge dedicated fan base and a history behind it. To put it in perspective, Deadzone opened with (I think) something like $175k in the first 48, and there is no question to me that PP should be better able to leverage their (vastly larger) fan base then Mantic.
That the amount seen thus far is what it is to me reflects the fact that the previous game in the series (Undercity?) has mixed reviews (or so I hear), and the reviews of the material and components seem to be a particular sticking point. Add to that the relatively parsimonious game contents and... a slow campaign, and frankly, I don't see it changing much given that we now see the SGs for the next 100k+.
PP fans are bidding on it. It's kind of obvious when most of the bids aren't even at the 100 usd pledge level but the 140 and there are so many on the 240 pledge level.
Also, KS exclusive scenarios? Really? Because it's not like the previous game is lacking in scenarios at all /s
Of all the things to be KS exclusive, a scenario makes the least sense, considering the original game came with so few scenarios. It's like they really don't want people to buy this after KS.
My warmachine batrep & other misc stuff blog
http://sining83.blogspot.com/
2016/02/24 01:44:44
Subject: Privateer Press Kickstarter - Widower's Wood board game
Ctaylor wrote: PP have mentioned in comments that they are revamping some of the stretch goals soon.
It seems the revamp is... using twitter polls to determine some things? Most recent update contains this;
Future stretch goals: Based on feedback and suggestions from our backers, we’ve made some adjustments to the stretch goal ladder. Notably, you’ll notice we’ve moved that big, juicy Ironback Spitter down a rung on the ladder. We didn’t come this far not to see that big guy make it into the game! (We would have swapped him for the Swamp Gobbers but we didn’t want to pull a bait & switch for anyone looking to build out their gobber horde!) And since we know our backers have great input, we’re now going to get you more involved with determining our stretch goal path though a series of polls! The first one you’ll get to vote on will determine which figures we’re going to add onto the $300k Supplemental Mission goal! It’s going to be a knock-down-drag-out fight between a pair of spectral Feral Geists or a 4-pack of tomahawk-wielding Gatormen! And whichever comes out on top will get combined with the supplemental mission at the $300k stretch goal level. And after that, just to make things interesting, we’re going to keep going with the polls. Rather than lock in the Bog Trog Spearmen, we’ll let you vote it out to decide whether it will be Bog Trog Spearmen or Club Gatormen. Let the best monsters win!
I'm... uncertain about the potential impact of these changes. Duplicate sculpts pretty much never motivate more pledges, IMO, unless they are originally in tiny numbers that the increase brings the numbers above some minimal standard. I think what they really need are new characters... which is a problem, because they seem shockingly to have not really planned to add more heroes. I'm not at all sure about that, except that the heroes they have added are all existing characters from their main miniature line.
I just don't understand the reasoning behind so many of their moves, except as a means of absolutely minimizing their costs. But... why? PP shouldn't be so hard up for cash that they need to be so parsimonious, so why run this like a complete cash grab?
I love PP as a company - but in many regards they always come off as kind of tightwads to me - never willing to really invest in things like quality plastics (which took ages to show up - and they'll now only use for certain kits).
And the Tactics KS was a disappointment too in terms of value. So many cool things they might have done - but stuck with a lot of lame stuff like in-game skins.
They could also pretty easily KS (or just sell) stuff that their fanbase is clamoring for (like a fluff anthology) - but never do.
And the repeat sculpts in things (like this, and the previous board game) borders on insulting. At least do 2 variants if you're giving us 12 of the same mini.
