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Adventures in the 10mm scale. Mini-KoW, Warmaster  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in se
Longtime Dakkanaut






I recently got lured by the sirensong of 10mm fantasy. While Warmaster models is hard to come by these days, and the game system never enticed me (though I've never actually played it, so i'll give it a try in the future when I have armies for it) there's been a veritable renaissance in the field of 10mm thanks to the increased availibility of high-quality 3D printing.

https://www.excellentminiatures.com/ offers a wide range of (true to their name) excellent miniatures in this small scale.

So the plan for me and a friend (who will be a small gaming-group of just two for the moment) is to use the Kings of War ruleset. Scaling it down to 1cm =1 inch.
KoW is a very good fit for 10mm since it's based on unit-footprints rather than individual models, plus it's not very fiddly for WYSIWYG purposes.

Within the spoiler a short breakdown of how we intend to convert KoW into 10mm
Spoiler:

A regular troop stand representing 2x5 20mm based models is converted to a regular Warmaster-base of 20x40mm
Cavalry and heavy infantry gets a bit more space with 20x50mm
Large inf, large cav, war machines etc goes on 20x20mm per model, so 20x60 for a regiment and 40x60 for a horde.
Infantry characters 10x10mm, Cavalry 10x20mm
and so on

It's not a perfect conversion, as the various units will not have the exact same relative sizes to each other, but I think it'll be close enough to not signifivantly mess up balance. Especially as we won't be looking to min-max the armies.

A huge advantage that we're seeing is the possibility to effectively play on huge playing field. Using a regular 4x6 foot board is often restrictive in 28mm play. The edges of the map is often the main "terrain" feature, rather than actual terrain like woods and rocks. Our plan is to set up a 48x72cm space in the middle of the board in which to deploy as per the normal rules. Once battle is started, units will be able to use the entire board to outflank and manouver. This will ensure war machines cannot be put too far back compared to how the game is balancetested, and while it should make cavalry (and especially light, fast cavalry) a bit better then intended, I don't think these kind of units are in any way overpowered in the current KoW 3rd ed meta, so it might actually produce better balance compared to large cav and inf, especially flying ones. Flying will not be comparatively as powerful when you have more possibilities to move around an enemy and not being forced to go through or over.

So with all that out of the way, let's get to the models


Lovely little models. The detail is great for the small scale. I'd say, if you'd print the files in 28mm, they would still hold better detail than what the first GW plastic monopose HIPS models, and even the early multipose kits, of the 90's


I start priming the models with Grey Seer spray, then a light dust of Corax white spray

Some black wash over the areas that'll be metal.
Then it's pretty straightforward (but fiddly)


First finished spearman:



This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/11 15:28:44


   
Made in se
Longtime Dakkanaut






Archers, one troops worth.


   
Made in us
Nimble Ellyrian Reaver






Looking great, Zywus! The seafoam/emerald colors are a nice touch for the elves. How long did it take you to paint the archer unit? Interested in seeing more of what you do.

   
Made in se
Longtime Dakkanaut






 CaptainWaffle wrote:
Looking great, Zywus! The seafoam/emerald colors are a nice touch for the elves. How long did it take you to paint the archer unit? Interested in seeing more of what you do.

Thank you. I'm very pleased with the colour scheme too. It has a bit of an old-school feel (I'm envisioning a 4th-5th era WHFB High elf army; around the time I started with the hobby) but still a bit unique.

The archers were mostly done over two evenings (not including preparing them for paint, priming, or basing). But as I get more used to the particular models, and 10mm in general I hope to get a stand done in a few hours.

I've started on a unit of spear-elves now and will do more of a step by step documentation of how they're done.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/13 22:05:17


   
Made in us
Krazy Grot Kutta Driva





Thank you for showing the warmaster mins. Working on a small scale is always helpful to increase your skills. I wish I would have gotten into Warmaster back in the day. Your Spearman looks great. Please post some more soon.

 
   
Made in se
Longtime Dakkanaut






Pointer5 wrote:
Thank you for showing the warmaster mins. Working on a small scale is always helpful to increase your skills. I wish I would have gotten into Warmaster back in the day. Your Spearman looks great. Please post some more soon.

Thanks man. These aren't actual Warmaster models though. They're bought from https://www.excellentminiatures.com/
A storefront offering various creator's 3d sculpts of models in the same scale as warmaster. These particular elves are made by Exellent Miniatures themselves, but other creators sculpts are also sold on the page, such as Forest Dragon

I've been on the lookout for some original warmaster models, but they tend to fetch rather high prices unfortunately.

I've been taking some pictures step-by step for a strip of spearmen

After a wash of nuln oil over the areas that's goint to be metal, as well as areas where I want to pick out details (like the shield emblem) I paint the metal a light silver color


When dry, I put a slightly thinned out Coelia Greenshade over the metal. It tend to pool a bit inside the helmet, on the face. So I'm careful to make sure I remove as much excess wash from the face as possible. It's no problem if the face gets a bit green for now, but if it pools to much it can ruin the detail.


   
Made in se
Longtime Dakkanaut






Next step; some orange (GW Fiery Orange)

Front:


Back:


Then Turquoise (Army Painter Hydra Turquoise)

Front:


Back:

   
Made in se
Longtime Dakkanaut






Light wood, Spearshafts and back of shields: (GW Khemri Brown)

Front:


Back:



Leather Gloves and sash thingy (Army Painter Oak Brown)

Front:


Back:

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/17 21:44:09


   
Made in se
Longtime Dakkanaut






Highlights for the orange and turquoise (GW Lugganath Orange and Gauss Blaster Green respectively)

Front:


Back:


Faces. first a coat of Pallid wych Flesh



Then a wash of Guilliman Flesh


I should paint the eyes I guess, but it's soo fiddly in this scale, and I'm afraid to muck up the faces
Eyes will be reserved for characters initially, and I'll see if I dare put them on rank and file sometime.

Probably the most important step for the look of these guys, due to their large shield. White!

Front:


Back:


Various washes over white finishes off the hair. I've decided to do varied hair colors. While it can look good to implement a unified hair colour as part of the army paint scheme, I like the 'realism' of variation. Being elves though it'll be predominantly lighter haircolors.



Next up, it's time for basing!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/14 00:18:49


   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Those look really nice!

   
Made in us
Nimble Ellyrian Reaver






Looking great! What a classic, bright color scheme. I recommend skipping the eyes on the rank n file at 10mm. You will struggle to see them. A bit of shade is all they need.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Ellicott City, MD

Awesome idea! I used to have some 6mm ancients based as 15mm DBM armies with the same general concept. But love the idea of mini-KoW! It spoiled seem to be a nigh perfect system for it. Also, if you get a chance do try out Wamaster. It still holds up, although I did find the unit sizes somewhat odd.

But those are some lovely models and a great idea!

Valete,

JohnS

Valete,

JohnS

"You don't believe data - you test data. If I could put my finger on the moment we genuinely <expletive deleted> ourselves, it was the moment we decided that data was something you could use words like believe or disbelieve around"

-Jamie Sanderson 
   
Made in se
Longtime Dakkanaut






fingol23 wrote:Those look really nice!

Thank you. There's more to come.

CaptainWaffle wrote:Looking great! What a classic, bright color scheme. I recommend skipping the eyes on the rank n file at 10mm. You will struggle to see them. A bit of shade is all they need.
Thanks man. Yeah, the eyes are quite hidden by the helmets also.

cygnnus wrote:Awesome idea! I used to have some 6mm ancients based as 15mm DBM armies with the same general concept. But love the idea of mini-KoW! It spoiled seem to be a nigh perfect system for it. Also, if you get a chance do try out Wamaster. It still holds up, although I did find the unit sizes somewhat odd.

But those are some lovely models and a great idea!

Valete,

JohnS

Indeed. I'm on the lookout for a warmaster rulebook sometime. It shouldn't be a problem to use the same bases for both systems. I think the main difference is that cavalry are based on the bases turned 90 degrees, so 20mm wide and 40mm deep? But as long as We use cavalry units composed of an even number of bases, it'll come out to basically the same footprint.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, the bases.

For spearmen, I've measured their strips as roughly 5mm deep. For a 20mm base, this means I want the gap between the two ranks to be double the gap between a strip and the edge of the base. So 2,5mm. This will mean, if I rank spearmen bases behind each other, I'll have roughly the same distance between every rank.




Next I fill up the base with greenstuff/milliput for a smooth surface.

First strip:


Second Strip:



All filled and dried, strips removed:


Some slate-stone added:


A simple base-color. It's a lot easier to do this now, before gluing the strips to the base. If I miss a small piece of the base with the texture later, it'll not be very visible.


One strip inserted:


Texture paint added (GW Armageddon Dust) and then the second strip added.



Rest of the base textured:


When dry, a liberal splash of Agrax earthshade:


Semi-Drybrush of Bubonic brown:


Second drybrush Dheneb Stone:


Rocks painted: (very dark grey, very light drybrush):


Tufts. Regular Army-painter woodland tufts that I cut apart to make smaller tufts:


The Finished product!

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/09/21 22:35:38


   
Made in se
Longtime Dakkanaut






Archer stand based and finished:


Together with the Spearmen:

   
Made in se
Longtime Dakkanaut






Artillery support is here!



A small force taking shape:

(The focus is not great I see now )

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/02 22:17:20


   
Made in gb
Elite Tyranid Warrior






Wow, so tiny! I didn't even really know about 10mm stuff! Great to see it. You've done an awesome job so far, and I love the turquoise!

   
Made in se
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Glaiceana wrote:
Wow, so tiny! I didn't even really know about 10mm stuff! Great to see it. You've done an awesome job so far, and I love the turquoise!

Thanks!

Yeah, they really do put the mini- into minature gaming, don't they
I find it's a really nice scale as, unlike for example 6mm, it's not so small that (apart from weapons) the models need to have much more exaggerated features than in 28mm. And due to the small size, sculptors is forced to give them character while using minimal amount of fiddly detail. Something that I much prefer painting wise. While some modern GW models for example look stunning, It can be a real chore to paint all the little vials and whatever hanging from them, but if you make models too plain in that scale they risk looking flat.

   
Made in us
Nimble Ellyrian Reaver






Artillery is looking great! Keep it up.

   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



London

So how are you finding the two rule systems at that scale?
   
Made in se
Longtime Dakkanaut






CaptainWaffle wrote:Artillery is looking great! Keep it up.

Sure will!

I have another bolt thrower readdy waiting for some paint.
The_Real_Chris wrote:So how are you finding the two rule systems at that scale?

Unfortunately I haven't been able to play a real game yet with the little guys.

Me and a buddy has drawn up a 1000p army each for KoW that we're working towards. As soon as we get them painted we will have a go at KoW.
Warmaster is a more longterm plan, as we're unfamiliar with the system but have already played KoW in 28mm.

Latest progress:
The spearmen has gotten a commandstand! (I love that they have a dude playing the lyre as a musician )


Eventually I need to paint a elven rune or something on the standard, but I need to train my freehanding on something expendable, like a piece of plasticard or so.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/08 23:01:44


   
Made in us
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin






Those look great at that scale! Great work.

See what's on my painting table Now painting: Necron Lychguard 
   
Made in se
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll wrote:
Those look great at that scale! Great work.

Tnx mate

Yea, they really come into their own when you start to get bigger units together. Spearmen especially, since they're a bit extra tightly packed so I get 6x4=24 elves in a regiment sized unit.

   
Made in se
Longtime Dakkanaut






Even more spearmen done!

Another two troops/one regiment


So two regiments in total:


Now, one 'problem' with multibasing troop trays for KoW and then pulling them together for bigger units is that if you take these two regiments and add together for a horde, the command group will not be in the center.

HOWEVER, as the eagle eyed among you might have noted, there's something going on with one of the troops in the back rank.

It's actually two half-troops!


This allow me to pull it apart and place on either side of the command tray:


And merge into a proper horde:


Also possible to run as 4 separate troops:

   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







Nice work on the Spearmen, even if they are Elves - and good thinking on the basing, so your units can be used in multiple configurations.

2021 Plog - Here we go again... - my fifth attempt at a Dakka PLOG

My [url=https://pileofpotential.com/dysartes]Pile of Potential[/url - updates ongoing...

Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.


 Kanluwen wrote:
This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.

Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army... 
   
Made in gb
Crushing Black Templar Crusader Pilot






London

Smart multibasing! And I do love the re-emergence of 'proper smallscale' warmaster and Epic that seems to have been brought about by 3D printing

Thanks for sharing



Relapse wrote:
Baron, don't forget to talk about the SEALs and Marines you habitually beat up on 2 and 3 at a time, as you PM'd me about.
nareik wrote:
Perhaps it is a lube issue, seems obvious now.
 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot





Macragge

This is a really cool project. I miss seeing the massed ranks of Fantasy battles going on at my FLGS.

   
Made in se
Longtime Dakkanaut






Thanks for the comments guys. I was away travelling for a while and forgot to check the log

Dysartes wrote:Nice work on the Spearmen, even if they are Elves - and good thinking on the basing, so your units can be used in multiple configurations.

Yea, it always feels nice to have the option of all possible configurations. Although I don't forsee myself fielding a lot of troop-sized spearmen unit.

IGtR= wrote:Smart multibasing! And I do love the re-emergence of 'proper smallscale' warmaster and Epic that seems to have been brought about by 3D printing

Thanks for sharing

Indeed. Some of the new 3D printed stuff getting made these days are nothing short of amazing.
brushcommando wrote:This is a really cool project. I miss seeing the massed ranks of Fantasy battles going on at my FLGS.

Agree. There's something about proper rank n' flank gaming that's just really satisfying. I've never seen a miniature game get positioning to really work well without using proper formations.

Coming up next. A mage to lead the elves to victory:


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/31 18:46:36


   
Made in us
[DCM]
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot





Macragge

Wizard looks good. Nothing like showing off your mystical powers by levitating while summoning dread energies to smite your foes. What's next in the pipeline?

   
Made in se
Longtime Dakkanaut






 brushcommando wrote:
Wizard looks good. Nothing like showing off your mystical powers by levitating while summoning dread energies to smite your foes. What's next in the pipeline?

Yep, real mages are too cool to move by mere feet power

Next up is some heavy knights. Shown in an early stage of painting in the very first post.

   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







Silver Helms, as opposed to Dragon Princes?

2021 Plog - Here we go again... - my fifth attempt at a Dakka PLOG

My [url=https://pileofpotential.com/dysartes]Pile of Potential[/url - updates ongoing...

Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.


 Kanluwen wrote:
This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.

Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army... 
   
 
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