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Does anybody still use them anymore? I've seen every chapter tactics used since the last codex hit except black templars! Are they noticeably the worst?

Their chapter tactics arn't great as most marine units don't do combat well. They can't use Crusader squads in a GSF so your stuck with a CAD and you can't take a Librarian the best generic Space Marine HQ.

Other than taking them because you like the fluff and look of Templars there is no reason to take it.

 Spyro_Killer wrote:
Does anybody still use them anymore? I've seen every chapter tactics used since the last codex hit except black templars! Are they noticeably the worst?

I use them. Do you play in Dublin?
I've only used them a few times ( only started playing again late last year, mostly play thousand sons or guard) and I find them excellent at running from cover to cove. 2D6 pick the highest for run lets them move about really fast, probably an average of 10+ inches? My math fu is weak.

For smaller units that are easier to hide from LOS it can keep them out of the worst of enemy fire and get them to objectives and larger units that want to get up close and personal can get into a better position to launch assaults.

I play casual games though, and I'm not trying to be super competitive, so I don't know how they'd fare against a try-hard tournament list. I do see advantages for them in pickup games with the tactical objectives as they can get there faster than other marines.

Unfortunately, part of the reason why BT chapter tactics are so tame (and therefore less used) than other SM CT has to do with how situational most of their abilities are. Unlike Ultramarines who have a choice of when to use what doctrine, or Salamanders whose chapter tactics are always "on" so long as you follow certain wargear loadouts, BT chapter tactics are reliant on opponent triggering them rather than the controlling player. Adamantium Will, while not a bad buff given their lack of in-house psykers, only comes into effect against malediction/witchfire psychic powers which are generally the ones you fear the least, with blessings like invisibility being the ones that cause the most damage since you stop them on flat 6's to deny regardless of the rule. Similarly, the Righteous Zeal only gives Rage/Counter-attack if they lose models, effectively being a very conditional mark of khorne that you have to rely on your opponent activating, the worst part being that, more often than not, your unit will be either wiped out in the process or so damaged that the extra attacks don't compensate for the loss of bodies.

It also doesn't help that their rules are effectively watered down to fit the marine codex and their previous flavour has largely been lost, with only the Emperor's Champion and Grimaldus being able to salvage some sort of flavour. They really do deserve their own formation/detachment like White Scars/Raven Guard have received given their non-adherence to the codex. At least give them their holy hand grenade back dammit.

 Grimskul wrote:
Similarly, the Righteous Zeal only gives Rage/Counter-attack if they lose models, effectively being a very conditional mark of khorne that you have to rely on your opponent activating, the worst part being that, more often than not, your unit will be either wiped out in the process or so damaged that the extra attacks don't compensate for the loss of bodies.

I agree that that isn't great. However a tactically placed neophyte in front when charging increases the chance of taking a casualty from overwatch.
The main, 'always on' benefit is crusader, which I have mentioned above. When you have units on foot armed with meltas and bolt pistols, gaining as much ground as possible in the first and perhaps second turns is crucial so you can start popping vehicles and chainswording faces.

Remember- Crusader increases not only the average result(3.5 increases to 4.5), but affects the bellcurve so that the average and higher results become more common and results of 3 and less become less common.
A single dice to run is completely random, two dice are statistically more stable. Edit: Math-hammer attached.

That benefit is a lot less visible and perhaps less directly applicable to a game about shooting than FNP or twinlinked meltaguns but it is solid.

I use them, mostly with HVY transports, or drop pods, i do see the fact that you need something scary for you enemy to focus on so they dont kill troops, or i just marine spam, 60-70 marines is alot.

GW messed up big by not allowing you to swap tac squads for crusaders in a battle demi company. That was an unneeded gut punch for BT.

I do agree with that lol. I do like them with other formations though.

I have a list here for a typical list.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/681112.page#8472790

 =Angel= wrote:

 Spyro_Killer wrote:
Does anybody still use them anymore? I've seen every chapter tactics used since the last codex hit except black templars! Are they noticeably the worst?

I use them. Do you play in Dublin?
I've only used them a few times ( only started playing again late last year, mostly play thousand sons or guard) and I find them excellent at running from cover to cove. 2D6 pick the highest for run lets them move about really fast, probably an average of 10+ inches? My math fu is weak.

For smaller units that are easier to hide from LOS it can keep them out of the worst of enemy fire and get them to objectives and larger units that want to get up close and personal can get into a better position to launch assaults.

I play casual games though, and I'm not trying to be super competitive, so I don't know how they'd fare against a try-hard tournament list. I do see advantages for them in pickup games with the tactical objectives as they can get there faster than other marines.

Yup I play in Dublin, want a game some time?

they will probably see more play when crusade for armaggeddon drops next year. which will be when they get their rules supplemental overhaul with the salamanders.

i feel this is fated to happen, of the codex marines that have yet to see a full supplement the temp's, crimson fists, and and saladmanders are all thats left that need an update. it would be unfair if they didnt get them as well

 ionusx wrote:
they will probably see more play when crusade for armaggeddon drops next year. which will be when they get their rules supplemental overhaul with the salamanders.

i feel this is fated to happen, of the codex marines that have yet to see a full supplement the temp's, crimson fists, and and saladmanders are all thats left that need an update. it would be unfair if they didnt get them as well

Ultramarines are still waiting for one too which I find odd

 Spyro_Killer wrote:

 ionusx wrote:
they will probably see more play when crusade for armaggeddon drops next year. which will be when they get their rules supplemental overhaul with the salamanders.

i feel this is fated to happen, of the codex marines that have yet to see a full supplement the temp's, crimson fists, and and saladmanders are all thats left that need an update. it would be unfair if they didnt get them as well

Ultramarines are still waiting for one too which I find odd

Idont think the Smurfs or Fists will get one just cause they can hold their own better with the rules they have now.

I still play them quite a bit. Actually they were far-and-away the worst chapter tactic in the previous codex, which was thankfully short-lived. Their most recent iteration made the Emperors Champ amazing and gave them rage/counter-attack whenever they take wounds.

Other than that, they are space marines and have access to all the same cool stuff that other chapters do. And I have a really good track record when playing other marine chapters.

I agree, I don't think they are bad, they aren't a graruenteed win but I've never been blown out with them.

 btgrimaldus wrote:

 Spyro_Killer wrote:

 ionusx wrote:
they will probably see more play when crusade for armaggeddon drops next year. which will be when they get their rules supplemental overhaul with the salamanders.

i feel this is fated to happen, of the codex marines that have yet to see a full supplement the temp's, crimson fists, and and saladmanders are all thats left that need an update. it would be unfair if they didnt get them as well

Ultramarines are still waiting for one too which I find odd

Idont think the Smurfs or Fists will get one just cause they can hold their own better with the rules they have now.

Imperial Fists already do have a supplement, Sentinels of Terra, so to be honest it is a bit odd the UM haven't gotten anything, even though I would prefer GW's focus to be more equal amongst other non-marine factions.

I know right,

its almost like GW Russian roulette which supplement is next lol.

Wait? Salamanders are getting a supplement within the year? I just got so excited...

Saythings wrote:
Wait? Salamanders are getting a supplement within the year? I just got so excited...

Let's hope they don't get as bad as the last 3 supplements in a row.

 Spyro_Killer wrote:

 ionusx wrote:
they will probably see more play when crusade for armaggeddon drops next year. which will be when they get their rules supplemental overhaul with the salamanders.

i feel this is fated to happen, of the codex marines that have yet to see a full supplement the temp's, crimson fists, and and saladmanders are all thats left that need an update. it would be unfair if they didnt get them as well

Ultramarines are still waiting for one too which I find odd

the base codex might as well be codex ultramarines, and they have blood oath on top of that. they dont need additional content.

What's blood oath?