Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

morning Dakkanauts,

I have my LGS tournament on Saturday and I was thinking of running this list:

Rexler Brath
Stealth Device
Outmaneuver
Ion Cannon
Assault Missiles

Colonel Vessery
Stealth Device
Outmaneuver
Ion Cannon
Assault Missiles

100 points neat

I could swap out the assault missiles for Ion pulse missiles and still have four points spare.

thoughts/ideas/comments?

I admire your aplomb.

Double Defenders have been done before and people have found success with them, because even though they get a lot of hate, they're almost a good ship (they're problem is that they cost too many points).

If possible, I would drop Outmaneuver for something better such as Predator, Lone Wolf (one one of them), or Veteran Instincts. Also, I would find a way to get Heavy Laser Cannons on them.

So something like this;
TIE Defender: •Rexler Brath (51)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
Predator (3)
Heavy Laser Cannon (7)
Ion Pulse Missiles (3)

TIE Defender: •Colonel Vessery (49)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
Predator (3)
Heavy Laser Cannon (7)
Ion Pulse Missiles (3)

Total: 100/100

Predator is redundant on Vessery, he's already getting re-rolls from his pilot ability. Outmaneuver would be a better choice.

 DanielBeaver wrote:
Predator is redundant on Vessery, he's already getting re-rolls from his pilot ability. Outmaneuver would be a better choice.

He'd only get the target lock if Brath holds one on the same target and hasn't used it. In this sort of list his ability is largely redundant

At least you can say you flew them BEFORE the Title came out and made them much more competitive.

They work well as a pair, but you need to build to their pilot abilities.

If you want to use a pair of defenders, putting Veteran Instincts on Vessery works well - that way he shoots before Brath (who has a lock), meaning he gets his free locks.

Brath, by comparison, is better with Push The Limit - so you can Target Lock/Focus - that way you can fire a target locked heavy laser cannon, then focus to flip all the cards to face-up damage.

If Brath's using Push The Limit, then Twin Ion Engines MkII are a good choice to burn off the stress. They're not bad for Vessery, either, but not as crucial.


Colonel Vessery - Veteran Instincts, Heavy Laser Cannon, Assault Missiles, Twin Ion Engines MkII

Rexler Brath - Push The Limit, Heavy Laser Cannon, Ion Pulse Missiles, Twin Ion Engines MkII

 statu wrote:

He'd only get the target lock if Brath holds one on the same target and hasn't used it. In this sort of list his ability is largely redundant

Brath is mitigating this issue with his own Predator upgrade. Vessery ultimately deals more damage then Brath if you can trigger his ability every turn, and so you come out better just maintaining the target lock.

The other way to do this would be to take Decoy on Vessery, so that he can swap his PS with Brath. That lets Brath spend his target lock after Vessery shoots.

Once the TIE-D comes out, these dual defenders will change quite a bit. Vessery benefits greatly from TIE-D, but the other Defenders work better with x-7. It will be tough to fill up 100pts, unless you start doing things like giving them all Engine Upgrade and Assault Missiles.

ok so a few of you are suggesting the HLC over the Ion cannon. any particular reason why it is preferred? I would have thought that given the ion token you could cripple your opponent into just doing 1 straights for turns on end. sure you get one more attack dice but for an extra four points each

The Heavy Laser Cannon is the most expensive secondary armament in the game for a reason. It is the best one. An attack value of four that doesn't reduce your damage to 1 like the ion cannon, and still denies the R3 bonus is great. The minor drawback of changing crits to hits is negligible: most people don't go fishing for crits they're really just a bonus and rerolling the dice (on blanks or eyes if you don't have focus) allows you to keep any crits you roll.

Most ships you will face have agility values of one or two, meaning 4 hits will strip shields and break through the cycle of regeneration/evasion. Most ships with a statline AGI 3 will take a stealth device to bump that to four, or auto thrusters to have a more consistent 3, to have any chance of hitting a target like that, you will need 3 or 4 dice, and preferably more than one attack to remove tokens (Gunner, TLT). The other option with a HLC is simply have one of your other ships "bump" the target, now with 4 dice and rerolls/focus you have a massive chance to break through tokenless 4 dice or 3 with autothrusters. Interceptors are a different beast, having both Stealth and Autos, but that one interceptor will be a large number of points.

As for ion, you'll see by using it that, without putting stress on the target, it won't do you much good. Any target you want ionized, you also want it to be actionless. Else it will just token up and dodge your next attacks or boost and barrel roll out of your arc so you can't hit it anyway (or both in the case of Jake Farrell/Soontir Fel), in some cases, you may actually be HELPING an ace by allowing an otherwise fast ship go very slow for a turn. There is always the possibility of ioning a large ship out of play (pretty cheap if you ask me, but it is valid) but for that, it's better to just shoot em once with Ion Pulse Missiles and be done with it rather than risk it to get the biscuit with two ion cannon shots while ignoring the other targets in play.

Thank you Bocatt. given those ideas the HLC is looking like more of a staple than any other cannon


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Has anyone had a go with Rexler with push the limit and autoblasters?

Autoblasters are overly expensive for what they do. It's basically only worthwhile if you can consistently shoot at 3 agility targets from range 1, which doesn't happen very often.

PTL is a decent upgrade for Rexler. He likes having target lock + focus, so that he has a focus token available more often to flip damage cards with his pilot ability. Same idea as Predator, basically. If you go PTL, you'll want those mkII ion engines so that you can shake off stress.

ok so the games didn't go exactly to plan....

first round was against, Fel Whisper and two academy pilots. the academy pilots went down easily. Whisper took a bit longer and resulted in the fall of Vessery. Rex got a shot onto Fel and then ran into an asteroid (sadly).

Second round was a bye.

Third round saw me face off against Biggs with a B-wing and Y-wing as wingmen. Vessery was taken down quickly, but Rex got pay back with taking down the B-Wing. the TLT on the Y-wing was brutal that round.

I am sold on the list. had I done a 3 turn instead of a 2 turn I could of avoided the asteroid and possibly taken Fel, he was going to end his movement in range. TLT are always going to be in issue imo so there's not much I can do about that. so I'm thinking of taking it to the store Championships next month.

Hey, as long as you had fun and learned stuff, it's all good.
I think your list will benefit immensely once Imperial Veterans is released, and Tractor Beam on Defenders will be good for some control options.

Something like:
Col Vessery (40)
Tie/D
Tractor Beam
Twin Ion engine Mk.II
Push the Limit

Rexler Brath (40)
Tie/D
Tractor Beam
Twin Ion engine Mk. II
Veteran Instincts

Wampa (17)
Stealth Device

Leaves you at 97, so 3 points for some missiles. Wampa hangs out at range 3 sniping, sitting on possible 5 evade dice, while the Tie Defenders tractor beam + shoot.
I like the TIE Mk.II mod since you gain 6x green maneuvers, and lose the predictability Defenders have by only going straight to shed stress.
You could forgo the VI on Rexler for a PTL, but I like to have a high PS pilot on the table.
Might be worth a shot, plus adding a third ship is always nice.

Couldn't agree more House Griffith. I played two friendlies last night, both playing rebels. I found that if I kept an asteroid between the ships and at range three with the HLC worked best, they don't get their modifier and typically three shots they have to evade with ships mostly with 1-2 evade dice (B & Y wings)