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 Brother SRM wrote:
As long as you prime it well you're fine. It broke my heart when a bunch of my Ultramarines started chipping, but the Army Painter spray I was using wasn't durable enough. Now I use that over white primer and, once they're sealed, they're perfectly fine. Plastic is preferred but I've painted a lot of metal.

This really sums it up, good primer is a absolute must when using metal minies

I always find they chip a lot (PP metal figures). I tend to prefer using brush-on primer (or acrylic gesso) and most of my figures have "battle damage" where paint has chipped even after a nice solid coat of the primer. I don't have that issue with spray primers or plastic figures, only metal.

Also, for warmachine at least, they are a pain in the ass to put together and most companies tend to have a lot of very fiddly bits.

 Trondheim wrote:
This really sums it up, good primer is a absolute must when using metal minies

I'm mildly surprised that this and other comments imply people don't prime their plastic and resin minis.

 Trondheim wrote:

 Brother SRM wrote:
As long as you prime it well you're fine. It broke my heart when a bunch of my Ultramarines started chipping, but the Army Painter spray I was using wasn't durable enough. Now I use that over white primer and, once they're sealed, they're perfectly fine. Plastic is preferred but I've painted a lot of metal.

This really sums it up, good primer is a absolute must when using metal minies

It really isn't. Sealer is far more important than primer in protecting minis. As I mentioned, I use a 98 cent spray can of flat black that's not even real primer as my primer coat. People tend to overstate the perceived benfits of a $20 can of hobby-brand primer.

I haven't had any problems with paint sticking to metal models. Before assembly I wash my metal models in white vinegar to remove any mold release and oils from my fingers after clean-up. Once assembled I prime and then I varnish after the models is painted.

WayneTheGame wrote:
I always find they chip a lot (PP metal figures). I tend to prefer using brush-on primer (or acrylic gesso) and most of my figures have "battle damage" where paint has chipped even after a nice solid coat of the primer. I don't have that issue with spray primers or plastic figures, only metal.

Also, for warmachine at least, they are a pain in the ass to put together and most companies tend to have a lot of very fiddly bits.

Try out Infinity for the fiddly bits.

I used to have loads of chips on my metal PP minis. Then I realized that the spray I was using could be improved upon a great deal.

I currently use Duplicolor Sandable Primer on all of my minis, and I have very few chipping issues. It is every bit as good or better than the "hobby" primers you get, and it cost about $5 a can.

So, not the cheapest primer you'll get, but it is the best and the price is reasonable.

 the_Armyman wrote:
[
It really isn't. Sealer is far more important than primer in protecting minis. As I mentioned, I use a 98 cent spray can of flat black that's not even real primer as my primer coat. People tend to overstate the perceived benfits of a $20 can of hobby-brand primer.

In my experience it really is - that $20 hobby brand primer is great for colors, but the durability isn't as good as what you'd get from a $6 can of Krylon. That's why I've taken to using both on models that use the Army Painter stuff, because I've got tons of chipping going on, even with three coats of varnish.

I use a mix of Johnson & Johnson Floor Wax (clear of course) and Windsor & Newton Inks then follow it, after the gloss coat dries, with a Matt varnish. Once I got my colored mixes done in various sealed containers, this is such an easy thing to do that works so well I couldn't think of doing it any other way now.

I can drop my metal models and they do not chip. Obviously there is a point where the energy will overcome the sealant and win with a chip of course, but I'm referring to normal bumps and small drops from tables. Those are very rare though so I tested them. Pieces will break off before chipping. Hmmm...maybe I should make some YouTube videos of the differences. Of course, this just means my plastic (not Failcast) models are even better protected!

I painted metals extensively up unti 98. This was before the rise of multi-part multi-pose plastics, - the plastics were mostly monopose rubbish like this, so if you wanted nice looking minis, most of those kits were at least partly metal.

I didn't have many assembly or painting issues. But I don't miss them one bit, for one reason. Chipping. I used to prime my metals and upon completion they'd get a coat of gloss varnish followed by a second coat of matt. And they still chipped at hard edges / exposed parts. Long weapons and extremities would bend slightly and the paint would spall from them. You could hold them with a bit too much pressure and the paint would chip. It did my fething head in. There was nothing more demoralising than seeing my painstakingly applied paint job marred. So no, for that single reason, I was glad to see the back of them. As flawed as it is I'll even take Finecast over metal because at least with Finecast I only have to fix air bubbles and other distortions once.

That said If anyone knows the secret to stopping them chipping, please share. I have a Ksarkin squad I'd like to paint up.

odinsgrandson wrote:
I currently use Duplicolor Sandable Primer on all of my minis, and I have very few chipping issues.

I use cheap black spray paint or gesso, and I haven't had chipping issues, but that's probably because I (brush) dip my figures which essentially coats them in a sturdy layer of polyurethane. And, that's before the additional acrylic matte varnish I brush on them to cut the shine of the dip. My paintjobs are nearly bombproof.

For those who are experiencing chipping and don't dip their figures an affordable automotive-style primer like duplicolor (most other brands have a similar product) is an excellent choice. These kinds of primers are made to adhere to bare metal and may give a bit more durability than other paints. Some even have a bit of an etching agent in them to aid in sticking to metal and other hard surfaces.

That said, I do acknowledge that plastics are easier to prime and usually have more durable paint jobs. Even cheap spray paints have enough VOC's to give a ridiculously strong bond between the base layer and the plastic. It's basically acts like solvent that slightly/almost melts the plastic and paint into one and that does result in more paint durability.

All materials have their upsides and downsides:

Hand Poured Resin give you the absolute best detail you can get, in the fewest possible pieces. It is also expensive and can be fragile.

Pewter minis can get great detail. It can get troublesome with particularly fiddly minis. It can get expensive, as prices fluctuate with the price of tin.

Spincast resin gives you very good detail of every kind, but can be fragile for gameplay and requires that a company have decent quality control (or we get finecast). Prices tend to be comparable to pewter, but without the price fluctuation.

ABT and Polystyrene are perfect for casting inorganic shapes with hard edges (warjacks, space marines, etc.). It is also very chip resistant, although tiny joins tend to break along the plastic rather than the glue. The material can't handles a lot of tiny details, however, and loses significant detail around the mold lines.

PVC is the most durable material minis can be made from. It seems like the cheaper the PVC, the more durable it is. Unfortunately, it tends to round the sharpest edges or bend, which makes it less than ideal for inorganic shapes.

Trollforge plastic is nice and cheap (although more expensive than the cheapest of PVC lines). It is about as brittle as resin, but without casting detail as well. In addition, surfaces are often grainy (most painters coat most of the mini in gloss before they start painting them).

Nope. They are a bit more trouble to assemble, but a good spray primer and you're good to go.

 Eilif wrote:


I use cheap black spray paint or gesso, and I haven't had chipping issues, but that's probably because I (brush) dip my figures which essentially coats them in a sturdy layer of polyurethane. And, that's before the additional acrylic matte varnish I brush on them to cut the shine of the dip. My paintjobs are nearly bombproof

Thanks for the pointer. Forgive my ignorance but when you say you (brush) dip your figures, I'm unfamilar with the process -what's the product that you dip them into?

Metal I find is much more prone to surface contaminant.
Giving the model a good wash in detergent is even more critical for them to get mold release off.
What helps with adhesion is also getting more "tooth" on the model so some light sanding or going over carefully with a wire brush helps.
But yes, the weight does add a bit more damage when dropped or falling over.
The thermal expansion and contraction of the metal vs the paint tends to wing them too: no really hot cars or out in the dead of winter.

All that said, it seems no different than a plastic model after all that is addressed.

When priming, the propellant/solvent tends to allow the paint to glue/melt better to plastic.
Heat/cold is not as big a deal for plastic models since the polymer of the paint and model are similar enough in thermal expansion properties.

I do not know what to say for primers, I tend to stick to the GW black but there are so many options, I am afraid to switch to anything else since I had varying bad experiences with other brands.
I chalk it up to me possibly not being used to ideal condition using for those.
I have seen some prefer using a spray or brush-on black gesso.
The argument being that it also has some "tooth" to it to improve the adhesion / application of the paint and tends to shrink to fit well to the model surface.
In any case, ensure a very light couple layers of primer (a little see-thru of metal is ok!) than one heavy one: I know for sure that is my #1 cause of paint chipping.

I have found time and again any dissimilar materials or metal on metal should all be pinned.
After all that work anyway: why risk it falling apart.
Crazy glue with some rubberized material in it I find vastly improves life of the bond: it has some give, pure crazy glue is a bit more brittle.
I tend to swear by Gorilla Glue.Again, this is to be used for all circumstances other than a plastic on plastic bond.
Then you should "weld" with a proper plastics glue, I prefer the Tamiya white and green cap.

 thegreatchimp wrote:

 Eilif wrote:


I use cheap black spray paint or gesso, and I haven't had chipping issues, but that's probably because I (brush) dip my figures which essentially coats them in a sturdy layer of polyurethane. And, that's before the additional acrylic matte varnish I brush on them to cut the shine of the dip. My paintjobs are nearly bombproof

Thanks for the pointer. Forgive my ignorance but when you say you (brush) dip your figures, I'm unfamilar with the process -what's the product that you dip them into?

Happy to help.
My "Brush Dip" is essentially what Army Painter calls the "Splash" method and uses a brush to apply the "dip" rather than immersing the figure. I made a pictorial tutorial about it here:
http://chicagoskirmish.blogspot.com/2012/01/with-liberty-and-brush-dipping-for-all.html

As for what product, I use "Minwax Polyshades Satin" which is one of the products that folks used for dipping long before "Quckshade" was invented.

With practice you can get some pretty good results extremely quickly. Here's some Metal Van Saar I painted last year. They're just plain block colors, a bit of drybrush on the hair and green and then a brush-dip and matte varnish.

I just finished the metal Grotsnik figure and at times it was a bit of a nightmare to be honest. I was constantly retouching here and there to patch up areas where the paint had come off.

On the subject of whether primer is important, I noticed that some areas that I hadn't primed (bits that I changed and stuck on halfway through painting him) were MUCH more prone to just letting the paint rub off. I had just given them a sort of on the fly undercoat of Abaddon Black and it was far from ideal. I'm hoping a couple of coats of Purity Seal will do the trick when it comes to finishing him.

I like painting metal models. They've got good heft and they usually have better detail than plastic.

I do prefer plastic for customizing, or for really big miniatures. Not a fan of using a dremel or a razorsaw on the metal miniatures.

 NidLifeCrisis wrote:
I just finished the metal Grotsnik figure and at times it was a bit of a nightmare to be honest. I was constantly retouching here and there to patch up areas where the paint had come off.

On the subject of whether primer is important, I noticed that some areas that I hadn't primed (bits that I changed and stuck on halfway through painting him) were MUCH more prone to just letting the paint rub off. I had just given them a sort of on the fly undercoat of Abaddon Black and it was far from ideal. I'm hoping a couple of coats of Purity Seal will do the trick when it comes to finishing him.

Stop touching the miniature while you're painting it. The oils and sweat on your hands will burn through paint or primer no matter what material its made of. You only notice it more on metal minis because of mass and simple physics. Handle an unfinished mini by its base or mount it to something to hold onto.

If you really can't avoid touching the model, would a pair of thin latex gloves or the like work?

I agree with what others have said... I'll take metal 7 days of the week over "finecast". It just takes better preparation... your primer makes a big difference here. It also takes a bit more work to finish it, such as a decent matte finish spray.

Don't like metal, bad experiences, harder to convert, doesn't work in the new GW cases as they are too heavy(otherwise the cases are fantastic).

I welcome our resin and plastic overlords

 Nevelon wrote:
Assembly I’ll give you. But once they are put together and primed, they are not that much different from plastic/resin.

Yeah, assembly is a pain, but they take paint/primer just fine.

Resin, on the other hand, has to be washed well with soapy water. Even if you do, sometimes the primer doesn't stick well.

 Eilif wrote:

Happy to help.
My "Brush Dip" is essentially what Army Painter calls the "Splash" method and uses a brush to apply the "dip" rather than immersing the figure. I made a pictorial tutorial about it here:
http://chicagoskirmish.blogspot.com/2012/01/with-liberty-and-brush-dipping-for-all.html

As for what product, I use "Minwax Polyshades Satin" which is one of the products that folks used for dipping long before "Quckshade" was invented.

Ah right, so the Minwax Polyshades satin acts as a protective layer as well as providing a wash effect? Do you know whether the Army Painter Quickshade would give a similar level of protection?

P.S. Those gangers look pretty good

 thegreatchimp wrote:

Ah right, so the Minwax Polyshades satin acts as a protective layer as well as providing a wash effect? Do you know whether the Army Painter Quickshade would give a similar level of protection?

My suspicion is that the AP QuickShade is just rebranded Minwax PolyShades. Natrually, you pay significantly more money for significantly less product for the hobby brand. If Minwax isn't available at your local hardware/DIY store, either ask if they have a wood stain + polyurethane product or google it. There are a ton of colors, and lots of online tutorials to help you pick the correct color.

I played sister of battle so I had to get friendly with metal. They arent too bad but sometimes pinning doesnt help. example was the worst model I have ever worked with, the Pentinent Engine. Besides that I clean the miniature with alcohol. then thin Matte spray. then a light primer, then paint as normal. Never really had a problem with details not showing through. then as a final coat I sprayed Matte coat again. Worked for me, but Sisters never really had insane detail anyway. So your results may vary.

 the_Armyman wrote:

My suspicion is that the AP QuickShade is just rebranded Minwax PolyShades. Natrually, you pay significantly more money for significantly less product for the hobby brand. If Minwax isn't available at your local hardware/DIY store, either ask if they have a wood stain + polyurethane product or google it. There are a ton of colors, and lots of online tutorials to help you pick the correct color.

Thanks man, I'll try sourcing the Minwax.

 thegreatchimp wrote:

Ah right, so the Minwax Polyshades satin acts as a protective layer as well as providing a wash effect? Do you know whether the Army Painter Quickshade would give a similar level of protection?

P.S. Those gangers look pretty good

Thanks! They're some of my favorite figs.

Army Painter will give the same protection. AFAIK, they are both products that combine stain and polyurethane. For dipping, the poly is what thickens up the stain and makes it settle and stick in the way that creates the "shade" effect that dippers like so much. For woodworkers, a Stain plus poly simply combines two steps (Stain and Varnish/Protectant) into one.

My personal suspicion is that they possibly are of slightly different formulations, but probably come out of the same or similar factories. Some folks have reported that they perform nearly identically and some have said that they have slightly different viscocity or pigmenting. Folks were using Polyshades long before Army painter and it works fine for me.

Also, since you're not in the USA, you might not have access to Minwax, but check your local paint or home improvement store to see what Stain+polyurethane products are available near you. I know the UK has a similar product, but I don't recall the name.

Best of luck!

 -Loki- wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
I detest them. The paint always seems to have a hard time sticking on, especially on the edges. They also chip really easily.
Why can't GW remake the Vostroyans in glorious plastic?

Prime and protect.

A good primer should have no issues sticking to a metal model, and paint should have no issue sticking to a primer. It's the whole point of primers.

When done, seal with a couple of coats of a good spirit based varnish, then something like dullcote if it wasn't a matte varnish.

Metal models shouldn't be chipping after these steps unless you use them as a football.

No need to lecture me on primers friend, I never paint miniatures without a nice thick coat of it. The problem with metal miniatures is that the primer rubs off really easily of sharp edges.
If you have some kind of primer that magically sticks to sharp edges without rubbing off when a miniature falls over etc, then I must know what you use.

In any case the extra hassle it takes to assemble and paint, combined with the near-impossibility to use it for kitbashes/conversions and the greater vulnerability makes metal an inferior material to plastic in every way. If you like the weight of metal miniatures you can just strap a magnet under the base of your plastics. Also makes transportation easier.
There is nothing that metal can do that plastic can't do better. Only old people still prefer metal, and that is just because they are old and no longer able to accept new things

 Leth wrote:
Don't like metal, bad experiences, harder to convert, doesn't work in the new GW cases as they are too heavy(otherwise the cases are fantastic).

I welcome our resin and plastic overlords

New GW cases are sissy cases then.

Metal is also nice, since during a total societal collapse, your minis could be melted down and used as a suitable substitute for lead when reloading your 6" Colt Python .357 magnum revolver. Good luck punching holes in zombie skulls with your polystyrene bullets, losers.