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ONCE AGAIN...

...IN THE 40K YMDC CALL FORUM...AS EVERYWHERE ON DAKKA DAKKA...

...RULE #1 MUST BE FOLLOWED!

Alpharius (or insaniak, or Yakface, or any Mod really), the OP's question was answered back on page 1, and the thread has gone off topic into the constant bickering of what house rules do we us to make this power work. Can we please get a lock?

9 pages and Im still lost :(
Immovable force Vs well ya know.....

Ratius, the OPs question, RAW is the Patriarch cannot manifest Psychic Shriek, as it has a BS of 0, and therefore cannot make any shooting attacks. This was stated page 1. The last 8 pages have been bickering over whose houserule is better - 1 To Hit roll, which if you miss means the power fails to manifest or ignore th To Hit roll since the 3d6-Ld is not dependent on it.

 Charistoph wrote:

col_impact wrote:

We have permission to make 1 roll to hit. No one has successfully pointed to permission to make more than one roll so in the case of Psychic Shriek we make one roll to hit.

That is not a literal statement, though, just an assumption. Quantity, even one single, is never defined for this Power for rolling To-Hit.

You need to pay attention to permission though. This is a permissive ruleset and you can only proceed on permission granted.

I know with 100% certainty that I am permitted at least one roll to hit since I am told to roll to hit and must satisfy that rule.

I have zero certainty whether I am permitted to make more than one roll to hit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nosferatu1001 wrote:

col_impact wrote:
The rules require a roll to hit for witchfire.

We have permission to make 1 roll to hit. No one has successfully pointed to permission to make more than one roll so in the case of Psychic Shriek we make one roll to hit.

If you hit the rules require a successful To Wound roll to see if you wound the target.

Spoiler:

Roll To Wound. For each shot that hit, roll again to see if it wounds the target.

If you lack the information required to make that roll the rules technically halt at that point.

The rules are broken in the case of psychic shriek.

To wound is a defined term. In order to wound, you just have successfully hit. Now please, show where your quote states that 3d6-ld requires a SUCCESFUL to hit. I'll wait

Blaktoof - you're back to ignoring, deliberately, the actual text stated I see. Your usual dishonest argument. Not worth responding to further.

Witchfires must roll To Hit and successful hits require To Wound rolls to see if you wound the target. If you cannot resolve the To Wound roll then you cannot determine if you have permission to wound the target.

A very popular house rule (and probably the most sensible) is that the Psychic Shriek text is a specific replacement of the To Wound roll.

col_impact wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:

col_impact wrote:

We have permission to make 1 roll to hit. No one has successfully pointed to permission to make more than one roll so in the case of Psychic Shriek we make one roll to hit.

That is not a literal statement, though, just an assumption. Quantity, even one single, is never defined for this Power for rolling To-Hit.

You need to pay attention to permission though. This is a permissive ruleset and you can only proceed on permission granted.

I know with 100% certainty that I am permitted at least one roll to hit since I am told to roll to hit and must satisfy that rule.

I have zero certainty whether I am permitted to make more than one roll to hit.

You have as much literal certainty permitted to roll one To-Hit, and that has been the problem with most of these pages.

 Charistoph wrote:

col_impact wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:

col_impact wrote:

We have permission to make 1 roll to hit. No one has successfully pointed to permission to make more than one roll so in the case of Psychic Shriek we make one roll to hit.

That is not a literal statement, though, just an assumption. Quantity, even one single, is never defined for this Power for rolling To-Hit.

You need to pay attention to permission though. This is a permissive ruleset and you can only proceed on permission granted.

I know with 100% certainty that I am permitted at least one roll to hit since I am told to roll to hit and must satisfy that rule.

I have zero certainty whether I am permitted to make more than one roll to hit.

You have as much literal certainty permitted to roll one To-Hit, and that has been the problem with most of these pages.

Incorrect. The rules tell us to roll to hit so we know we have the permission to make at least one roll.

You don't have permission to do something unless you are granted that permission.

Point to the permission in the rules to make more than one roll to hit in the case of Psychic Shriek. The burden is on you. You will not find that rule so you don't have the permission.

col_impact wrote:
We have permission to make 1 roll to hit.

Absolutely false.

There are no rules at all that tell us to roll only 1 die.

col_impact wrote:
Incorrect. The rules tell us to roll to hit so we know we have the permission to make at least one roll.

Then you can provide and properly reference a quote that literally states that every shooting attack rolls a minimum of one To-Hit except otherwise noted. Note, it must be literally stated as a minimum, and not an inference.

If you can, then most of this discussion has been wasted because no one has bothered to present it.

 Charistoph wrote:

col_impact wrote:
Incorrect. The rules tell us to roll to hit so we know we have the permission to make at least one roll.

Then you can provide and properly reference a quote that literally states that every shooting attack rolls a minimum of one To-Hit except otherwise noted. Note, it must be literally stated as a minimum, and not an inference.

If you can, then most of this discussion has been wasted because no one has bothered to present it.

You have that the wrong way. You have the burden of proof to show you can roll any number beyond one. Remember any number beyond one includes a billion and you have big problems with your argument if it is based on a line of reasoning that says the BRB is giving permission to players to literally claim a billion To Hit rolls. Reductio Ad Absurdum. Look it up.

And besides this quote proves it.



At no point later in the BRB is it explained in more detail how a shooting weapon with an unspecified number of shots gets more than one shot. So psychic shriek is in the "most" and not the "some weapons" category. Unless you can find the spot later in the book and prove me wrong.

"Most" isn't the same thing as "default".

 TheWaspinator wrote:
"Most" isn't the same thing as "default".

Feel free to find the point later in the BRB that proves me wrong and explains how nonexistent profiles fire more than one shot.

Waiting . . .

Otherwise you are in the category of "most" and firing one shot, per the rules.

We've had this argument before. It's unlikely to yield a different result this time around, so I think it's time to move on.