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I'm going to battle grey knights soon.
I've never faced grey knights before, but I've been told that they are a heavy psyker army.

he's going to bring two or three dread knights and terminators as troops and a landraider.

kan my list compete with "grey knight psychic shenanigans", or have I gone overboard with to much psykers?

+ HQ +

Eldrad Ulthran
Farseer [Farseer Skyrunner, Shuriken Pistol, Singing spear, The Spirit Stone of Anath'lan (Remnant of Glory)]


+ Elites +

Wave Serpent [Ghostwalk Matrix, Holo-fields, Shuriken cannon, Twin-linked scatter lasers]
5x Wraithguard [5x D-scythe]

Wave Serpent [Ghostwalk Matrix, Holo-fields, Twin-linked scatter lasers, Twin-linked shuriken catapults]
5x Wraithguard [5x Wraithcannon]


+ Troops +
Windriders [3x Windrider with Scatter laser]
Windriders [4x Windrider with Scatter laser]
Skyrunner Warlock [Singing spear]


+ Fast Attack +

Hemlock Wraithfighter

Swooping Hawks [5x Swooping Hawk]
Swooping Hawk Exarch [Lasblaster]

+ Lord of War +

Wraithknight [2x Scatter laser, Two Heavy Wraithcannons]

Well actually GK are just a Psychic heavy army. They lack mobility and terminators in general are crap. The only thing worth mentioning are the Dreadknights and the Draigo Centurion Star that Gates around with invisibility. If you face pure GK then multiple jet bikes with scats will put him down with weight of fire. If you face the Draigo star just avoid it using your superior mobility and kill everything else.

Regarding psychic powers you will not be able to catch up with him unless you bring a full seer council and eldrad. Keep in mind that as you chew through his army he is gonna loose warp charges since almost all his units contribute to the dice pool.

 Capamaru wrote:
Well actually GK are just a Psychic heavy army. They lack mobility and terminators in general are crap. The only thing worth mentioning are the Dreadknights and the Draigo Centurion Star that Gates around with invisibility. If you face pure GK then multiple jet bikes with scats will put him down with weight of fire. If you face the Draigo star just avoid it using your superior mobility and kill everything else.

Regarding psychic powers you will not be able to catch up with him unless you bring a full seer council and eldrad. Keep in mind that as you chew through his army he is gonna loose warp charges since almost all his units contribute to the dice pool.

so it's no use bringing 2 farseers?

and excuse my ignorance: what's a "Draigo centurion star"?

2 farseers will get 6 dices plus 1d6, while a typical GK army gets 12-15 or more plus 1d6.

So 2 farseers are better than one but still he gets a lot of dice for deny the witch.

The relatively competitive GK lists are two. One includes 2 NSF detachments, with 2 librarians, 2 terminator squads and 4 dreadknights with spare points used on whatever else they can.

The second is GK allied with space marines. They create a squad with Draigo 3-4 centurion devastators with grav guns, a librarian and Tigurious. The librarians roll for invisibility and Draigo has build in Gate of infinity.
Also Draigo is a beatstick and can tank with Eternal Warrior and ++3 save.

So they cast invisibility and they gate around with grav gun killing whatever they can get their hands on.

ah, ok.

he plays pure GK, so no draigo.

with Eldrad Ulthan, a farseer skyrunner, a warlock and a hemlock wraithfighter. I should get 10 dice, if the wraithfighter is on the table ofcourse.

should I dump them and go for something else?

3x vauls wraith D cannons with warlock bodygard.
Take two of those.

Take SC and not SL on your bikes.

The hemlock is a poor choice vs the GK - Cleansing flame will eat you alive. Just take whatever you want though - you could beat him by spamming gardians.

2 warlocks and a faseer and eldrad and youll have enough dice to compete.

He's taking a Land Raider? I'd say you have this in the bag... Your D-Scythe Wraithguard could literally stand there and let his units die to overwatch.

The only real concern are the Dreadknights. Save your deny the witch dice for Sanctuary. Sanctuary is a power that comes standard on a Dreadknight that improves their invul. save by 1 (so 4++ instead of 5++). It only requires 1 warp charge so he may not throw a lot of dice into it, which makes deny the witch easier. Once you deny one of these, he'll risk throwing more dice into the power which means he'll reduce his offensive powers considerably.

With regards to your list... I'd say Swooping Hawks are bad in this matchup. You don't need them to kill the Land Raider and they won't be much use against 2+ compared to other possible choices. I'd drop them for D-Cannon platforms or Warp Spiders. Also, the Hemlock is kind of meh. Sure it gives you a warp charge but Grey Knights play very aggressively. The game will be decided before that thing enters the battlefield. You need to have all your threats in play for when those Dreadknights shunt into your face (Dreadknights have a once per turn teleport ability that allows them to move 30", but they can't assault the turn they do so. However, 4 Dreadknights all doing this on turn 1 is a huge threat.)

I agree your biggest worry is the DK. It can move 12 inches with the personal teleporter. My tips would be a few bikes because of mobility. After that AP 2 and D is your best bet. Just kill off the DKs and possibly his Intercepters and fly around everything else. Instant death my be interesting to get. Fire dragons or warpspiders maybe interesting to consider. An avatar of khane may be interesting to get and as always a wraith Knight as their initiative is so high, though I would beware force


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I don't think you will need eldrad, don't let the psycic powers- worry you too much its really only +2 strenght and +1 to invul which isn't a big deal considering how many points each model costs

Guardians and warp spiders are amazing against a lot of enemies, with their high volume of fire and pseudo-rending, but especially against grey knights. Warp spiders wound dread knights on a 2+ just saying!

Drop eldrad and/or the hemlock. Eldrad is only worth it for guaranteed scouting. And the hemlock won't be able to cast reveal or psychic shriek and the d-blast won't be missed. You could get 2 spiritseers to keep the same number of dice, give your wraithguard and knight wraithsight and gives you a better chance to get renewer to heal up the wraithknight.

Ghostwalk matrices and holofields are not great since you can just jink in the open. Get the shuriken cannon on the d-cannon guard's ws. 7 shots are almost twice as good as 4!

When generating your psychic powers you might as well just take them all from runes of fate since it has such great buffs and GK still need to roll a 6 to deny buffs. Maybe take prescience from divination. Don't even think about casting anything on a grey knight unit. It will feel weird trading doom for guide, but do it unless you have something worse to trade.

I understand the HWC are your only long-ranged anti-tank so you may want to keep them but you'll most likely be wasting the scatter laser shots. You can use eldrad to scout him up before the game start which is really scary if he has the sword and shield.

Don't forget to use your 'runes of the farseer' to make your spells even harder to dispel!

Honestly though if he's bring a LR and not any of the cheesy things mention in above posts then your current list with all that D is probably going to be fun, at least for you and the armies should be about equal

FYI,

the battle took place yesterday evening and lasted a little over an hour.

I had first turn and managed to destroy the first of three dreadknights with all the scatterlaser shots I had.
his turn one he destroyed a waveserpent.

my turn two I destroyed two DK's, after that I only had to kill termies and paladins.

he called it a game when he had one terminator left at the end of turn three.

his psychic fase wasn't as scary as I thought and I got very lucky with first turn and two rounds of shooting before he could charge me.

as it was his first battle versus my Eldar an mine versus his Grey Knights, he is going to fine tune his list and is determent to try it again.

 Dinges643 wrote:
FYI,

the battle took place yesterday evening and lasted a little over an hour.

I had first turn and managed to destroy the first of three dreadknights with all the scatterlaser shots I had.
his turn one he destroyed a waveserpent.

my turn two I destroyed two DK's, after that I only had to kill termies and paladins.

he called it a game when he had one terminator left at the end of turn three.

his psychic fase wasn't as scary as I thought and I got very lucky with first turn and two rounds of shooting before he could charge me.

as it was his first battle versus my Eldar an mine versus his Grey Knights, he is going to fine tune his list and is determent to try it again.

To be honest - GK vs eldar usually wont last longer than 3 turns. It is a terrible matchup for the GK. If they don't go first they basically can't win.